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New wave of organized misinformation - Printable Version

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New wave of organized misinformation - oregontim - 04-10-2020

As I write this, midday Friday Apr. 10, I'm seeing a new wave of misinformation at work. Organized talking points exploiting the sad reality of millions of Americans conditioned to treat repeated lies as if they were truth.

We start to see the key talking points showing up everywhere. As of April 10, it's a growing trend. From the president and waves of social media we hear ...
Meanwhile we have four times more cases than any other country, proportionately more deaths ... 6 or 7 times more cases than China (to the extent that we have good data from China) ... severe shortages of testing and protective gear ... and the curves are still way too close to vertical.

My point: Is it just me? Or we have a yet another dangerous misinformation campaign going on at full bore, and real danger of having it blow up on us all in a way that we'll look at predictions of "only" 200K deaths as a Pollyanna fantasy.

RE: New wave of organized misinformation - stupac2 - 04-10-2020

I would hope that it's mostly wishful thinking rather than a malicious misinformation campaign, but I don't know how you take an honest look at the data and think we're anywhere near to being out of the woods, or that the social distancing currently in place is disproportionate to the threat.

RE: New wave of organized misinformation - fullmetal - 04-10-2020

It's hard to distinguished an organized misinformation campaign from a bunch of grifters looking for clicks/views/ad revenue and publishing fodder for the social media echo chambers to latch onto and spread virally.  What's worse is that these clickbait writers will sometimes copy/paste talking points for their own use and thus appear to be related authors.

Both are possible and not mutually exclusive.

RE: New wave of organized misinformation - Genuine Realist - 04-10-2020

(04-10-2020, 02:52 PM)stupac2 Wrote:  I would hope that it's mostly wishful thinking rather than a malicious misinformation campaign, but I don't know how you take an honest look at the data and think we're anywhere near to being out of the woods, or that the social distancing currently in place is disproportionate to the threat.

There's also a brobdingnagian amount of data at this point, and varied interpretations of it.  Misinformation  is a bit strong.

RE: New wave of organized misinformation - BostonCard - 04-10-2020

I'm inclined to agree with stupac (at least for a lot of stuff).  For example, there is evidence that curves are flattening (or at least no longer increasing at an exponential rate).  The first point is a question of relative values; although I disagree with it, I don't think you can really call it malicious or disinfornation.  The second point is truly factual.  I don't know how anyone can deny that 16+ million unemployed people is not too much pain (whether sparing the lives of hundreds of thousands of people is "worth it" is a different question than whether it is causing pain).

Effective testing is much more available, though I agree that "readily available" is a stretch.
Likewise, while there are lots of stories of protective gear running short, it is fair to wonder how universal the problem is.

Etc.

BC

RE: New wave of organized misinformation - oregontim - 04-10-2020

(04-10-2020, 03:23 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  I'm inclined to agree with stupac (at least for a lot of stuff).  For example, there is evidence that curves are flattening (or at least no longer increasing at an exponential rate).  The first point is a question of relative values; although I disagree with it, I don't think you can really call it malicious or disinfornation.  The second point is truly factual.  I don't know how anyone can deny that 16+ million unemployed people is not too much pain (whether sparing the lives of hundreds of thousands of people is "worth it" is a different question than whether it is causing pain).



BC

Thanks BC I agree with both your points here ... of course we're talking relative values, and of course the economic crash causes enormous pain and suffering. I confess I wrote my original post while the president's daily political rally was within earshot in the background, so I was influenced by anger and dismay. Of course I should have waited a while before pressing the "send" button. I don't regret the core of my post but I could have improved the wording.

RE: New wave of organized misinformation - baymeadows3408 - 04-10-2020

Normalcy bias meets talking points.

RE: New wave of organized misinformation - cardcrimson - 04-10-2020

(04-10-2020, 02:28 PM)oregontim Wrote:  As I write this, midday Friday Apr. 10, I'm seeing a new wave of misinformation at work. Organized talking points exploiting the sad reality of millions of Americans conditioned to treat repeated lies as if they were truth.

We start to see the key talking points showing up everywhere. As of April 10, it's a growing trend. From the president and waves of social media we hear ...
  • The stay-at-home shutdown is a cure worst than the disease
  • It is causing too much pain to too many people
  • Curves are flattening; we'll soon all be safe
  • Stay-at-home is a national sacrifice of the many to benefit a very few (older and health problems)
  • Effective testing is readily available
  • Front-line doctors and nurses have all the protective gear they need
  • The US response has been effective
  • This is almost over
Meanwhile we have four times more cases than any other country, proportionately more deaths ... 6 or 7 times more cases than China (to the extent that we have good data from China) ... severe shortages of testing and protective gear ... and the curves are still way too close to vertical.

My point: Is it just me? Or we have a yet another dangerous misinformation campaign going on at full bore, and real danger of having it blow up on us all in a way that we'll look at predictions of "only" 200K deaths as a Pollyanna fantasy.

I'm sorry, but I think I missed your point.

Or are you a grifter looking for clicks/views and publishing fodder for the social media echo chambers to latch onto?

RE: New wave of organized misinformation - oregontim - 04-10-2020

(04-10-2020, 06:07 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:  I'm sorry, but I think I missed your point.

Or are you a grifter looking for clicks/views and publishing fodder for the social media echo chambers to latch onto?

Sorry then, if you missed my point, my bad; but no hard feelings. And a big grin to the concept of "grifter looking for clicks/views" on this forum.

RE: New wave of organized misinformation - OutsiderFan - 04-11-2020

Most of those bullet points are bullshit. And the ones that aren’t demonstrable bullshit have no facts to support them.

Let me take aim at the Doctors and Nurses have all the equipment they need bullshit. First of all, WTF does the “front line” modifier mean? Does this mean those treating the sick in hospitals have what they need, so all is well?

This is a fact. My Nurse friend who is in charge of infection control at a Nursing Home had no N95 mask and could only wear a surgical mask this week. On Tuesday he visited a patient he was unaware had Covid-19. On Thursday night he learned that patient tested positive, presumably after a staff member picked up the virus by community spread. No staff at this facility has been allowed to work at any other facility as they often do, for weeks now.

My friend is now forced to stay home while he waits to find out if he became infected, even wearing a surgical mask. If he did, it’s possible he infected his wife and daughter already because it only takes 1-2 days after infection for virus to shed and they live together.

He may or may not be considered a “front line” worker, but he is an example that there is not enough equipment to stop virus spread, which I believe is the point and objective of having enough PPE.

RE: New wave of organized misinformation - Genuine Realist - 04-11-2020

(04-11-2020, 04:30 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  Most of those bullet points are bullshit. And the ones that aren’t demonstrable bullshit have no facts to support them.

Let me take aim at the Doctors and Nurses have all the equipment they need bullshit. First of all, WTF does the “front line” modifier mean? Does this mean those treating the sick in hospitals have what they need, so all is well?

This is a fact. My Nurse friend who is in charge of infection control at a Nursing Home had no N95 mask and could only wear a surgical mask this week. On Tuesday he visited a patient he was unaware had Covid-19. On Thursday night he learned that patient tested positive, presumably after a staff member picked up the virus by community spread. No staff at this facility has been allowed to work at any other facility as they often do, for weeks now.

My friend is now forced to stay home while he waits to find out if he became infected, even wearing a surgical mask. If he did, it’s possible he infected his wife and daughter already because it only takes 1-2 days after infection for virus to shed and they live together.

He may or may not be considered a “front line” worker, but he is an example that there is not enough equipment to stop virus spread, which I believe is the point and objective of having enough PPE.

In general, the briefings are a melange of facts, opinions, projections, and conjecture. They're a paradigm of the 'half-full, half empty' metaphor. You may argue strenuously that the cup is actually half empty. But to say that the 'half-full' speakers are engaging in misinformation says more about your values - or, more accurately, your partisanship - than it does about the speakers.

RE: New wave of organized misinformation - OutsiderFan - 04-11-2020

(04-11-2020, 08:43 AM)Genuine Realist Wrote:  
(04-11-2020, 04:30 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  Most of those bullet points are bullshit. And the ones that aren’t demonstrable bullshit have no facts to support them.

Let me take aim at the Doctors and Nurses have all the equipment they need bullshit. First of all, WTF does the “front line” modifier mean? Does this mean those treating the sick in hospitals have what they need, so all is well?

This is a fact. My Nurse friend who is in charge of infection control at a Nursing Home had no N95 mask and could only wear a surgical mask this week. On Tuesday he visited a patient he was unaware had Covid-19. On Thursday night he learned that patient tested positive, presumably after a staff member picked up the virus by community spread. No staff at this facility has been allowed to work at any other facility as they often do, for weeks now.

My friend is now forced to stay home while he waits to find out if he became infected, even wearing a surgical mask. If he did, it’s possible he infected his wife and daughter already because it only takes 1-2 days after infection for virus to shed and they live together.

He may or may not be considered a “front line” worker, but he is an example that there is not enough equipment to stop virus spread, which I believe is the point and objective of having enough PPE.

In general, the briefings are a melange of facts, opinions, projections, and conjecture. They're a paradigm of the 'half-full, half empty' metaphor. You may argue strenuously that the cup is actually half empty. But to say that the 'half-full' speakers are engaging in misinformation says more about your values - or, more accurately, your partisanship - than it does about the speakers.

Since I don't watch the WH briefings, I have no idea where the bullshit bullet point assertions in this thread emanate. All I know is none of them are supported facts.  This has nothing to do with my values, although I will admit the cure being worse than the disease is a value judgement and the answer is in the eye of the beholder.

RE: New wave of organized misinformation - burger - 04-11-2020

(04-11-2020, 08:43 AM)Genuine Realist Wrote:  
(04-11-2020, 04:30 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  Most of those bullet points are bullshit. And the ones that aren’t demonstrable bullshit have no facts to support them.



Let me take aim at the Doctors and Nurses have all the equipment they need bullshit. First of all, WTF does the “front line” modifier mean? Does this mean those treating the sick in hospitals have what they need, so all is well?



This is a fact. My Nurse friend who is in charge of infection control at a Nursing Home had no N95 mask and could only wear a surgical mask this week. On Tuesday he visited a patient he was unaware had Covid-19. On Thursday night he learned that patient tested positive, presumably after a staff member picked up the virus by community spread. No staff at this facility has been allowed to work at any other facility as they often do, for weeks now.



My friend is now forced to stay home while he waits to find out if he became infected, even wearing a surgical mask. If he did, it’s possible he infected his wife and daughter already because it only takes 1-2 days after infection for virus to shed and they live together.



He may or may not be considered a “front line” worker, but he is an example that there is not enough equipment to stop virus spread, which I believe is the point and objective of having enough PPE.



In general, the briefings are a melange of facts, opinions, projections, and conjecture. They're a paradigm of the 'half-full, half empty' metaphor. You may argue strenuously that the cup is actually half empty. But to say that the 'half-full' speakers are engaging in misinformation says more about your values - or, more accurately, your partisanship - than it does about the speakers.

So your philosophy is "only half of the presidiential briefings is lies, and that's fine"? You've got some low ethical standards.  I don't think we should have to accept any lies or blithering idiocy from our leaders, especially from the president.

If the president can't even reach the standard of "tell us the truth and don't make stuff up every day" then he's not fit to serve.

RE: New wave of organized misinformation - Mick - 04-11-2020

(04-11-2020, 09:28 AM)burger Wrote:  So your philosophy is "only half of the presidiential briefings is lies, and that's fine"? You've got some low ethical standards.  I don't think we should have to accept any lies or blithering idiocy from our leaders, especially from the president.

If the president can't even reach the standard of "tell us the truth and don't make stuff up every day" then he's not fit to serve.

GR is not a supporter of Trump in any conceivable sense. He's making a different point.

GR, let me know if I'm mistaken.

RE: New wave of organized misinformation - 2006alum - 04-11-2020

Kinda veering close to a violation of what I'm calling the "Terry Rule" here -- nothing in the last few posts is actually about Coronavirus. Let's swing back around to discussion of information and misinformation about COVID-19 or else we can close and move on.

RE: New wave of organized misinformation - BostonCard - 04-11-2020

Back to coronavirus related questions.  Is there enough PPE?

https://oig.hhs.gov/oei/reports/oei-06-20-00300.pdf

Quote:Key Takeaway

Hospitals reported that their most significant challenges centered on testing and caring for patients with known or suspected COVID-19 and keeping staff safe. Hospitals also reported substantial challenges maintaining or expanding their facilities’ capacity to treat patients with COVID-19. Hospitals described specific challenges, mitigation strategies, and needs for assistance related to personal protective equipment (PPE), testing, staffing, supplies and durable equipment; maintaining or expanding facility capacity; and financial concerns.

So, in a word, no.

BC

RE: New wave of organized misinformation - M T - 04-12-2020

You may have seen a report that a local union found a source of 39M masks.  Turns out the "distributor" was a scam per today's reports.

At the time, NBC Bay Area reported
"We are continuing to turn over every rock to see if we can find  more personal protective equipment to make sure that healthcare workers, who  are heroically putting their own health on the line to care for patients, can  do their jobs as safely as possible," SEIU-UHW President Dave Regan said.

The union also reportedly said "Union officials said they also found a supplier that can produce some 20 million protective masks per week and another that can supply millions of protective face shields."  I haven't seen a report as to whether those were under a rock as well.

I'm wondering about the California report of 200M masks.   The same article above says "The supplier has already sold some of the masks to the state of California, the Greater New York Hospital Association, Dignity Health, Kaiser Permanente, Stanford Health Care, Sutter Health and Los Angeles, Riverside and Santa Clara counties."   In today's report, the FBI only said that the no financial transaction had happened with the union.

I don't know about you, but when I turn over a rock, I often find bugs...

This is a report that people here will want to talk about.
Hospitals say feds are seizing masks and other coronavirus supplies without a word