House Dems Unveil Their Bill - Printable Version

House Dems Unveil Their Bill - Printable Version

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House Dems Unveil Their Bill - 2006alum - 03-23-2020

FYI, the House Dems just unveiled their bill. Here's CNBC's summary of its contents:

Quote:
Requirements that corporations getting bailout money shield workers’ wages and benefits, and limits on CEO compensation, stock buybacks and layoffs.

Direct payments to Americans, along with expanded paid family and medical leave.

Grants and loans to small businesses.

Strengthened unemployment insurance.

Increased funding for hospitals and tougher safety standards for health care workers.

Language urging President Donald Trump to invoke the Defense Production Act to manufacture more health care supplies.

$40 billion in funding for schools and universities along with student debt relief.

More funding for the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program and other food assistance programs.

State election grants and a national requirement for 15 days of early voting and no-excuse absentee voting as fears grow about coronavirus spreading at crowded polling sites.

RE: House Dems Unveil Their Bill - chrisk - 03-23-2020

(03-23-2020, 11:05 AM)2006alum Wrote: FYI, the House Dems just unveiled their bill. Here's CNBC's summary of its contents:

Quote:
Requirements that corporations getting bailout money shield workers’ wages and benefits, and limits on CEO compensation, stock buybacks and layoffs.

Direct payments to Americans, along with expanded paid family and medical leave.

Grants and loans to small businesses.

Strengthened unemployment insurance.

Increased funding for hospitals and tougher safety standards for health care workers.

Language urging President Donald Trump to invoke the Defense Production Act to manufacture more health care supplies.

$40 billion in funding for schools and universities along with student debt relief.

More funding for the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program and other food assistance programs.

State election grants and a national requirement for 15 days of early voting and no-excuse absentee voting as fears grow about coronavirus spreading at crowded polling sites.

What is controversial about these items? There must be more to it or Mitch is being a real jerk.
The part I object to is direct payments to everybody. Americans have a sense of entitlement that is not healthy in this environment.

RE: House Dems Unveil Their Bill - Snorlax94 - 03-23-2020

I haven't seen the House's details and numbers for the stimulus part, but I really like many of the added components.

Yes, I totally agree the Congress should FORCE the Trump administration to produce more needed health supplies, as this has been an area of major failure.

Yes, helping universities and schools is a great idea. Schools with massive endowments may have been in an OK position but with other schools, especially state schools, we risk harming an investment that took generations to build.

I really like the pro-active thinking to make sure people can VOTE this fall. (Senators should also be able to vote from home). As I've said, if there is mass unemployment, disruptions, the need for more policing, supply shortages, restrictions in movement, and some intermittent food shortages, we risk a breakdown in social order and it's key that people feel confident in the integrity of the democratic process. There are long lines in Missouri to buy guns...

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/gun-sales-soar-in-st-louis-metro-during-coronavirus-pandemic/article_3bcb7504-7471-524a-8c56-08697a4ac0fb.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1

RE: House Dems Unveil Their Bill - burger - 03-23-2020

(03-23-2020, 11:28 AM)chrisk Wrote: The part I object to is direct payments to everybody. Americans have a sense of entitlement that is not healthy in this environment.

It's not about entitlement. It's about efficiency. We do not have weeks and months to figure out how to verify current income. Even if you could use payroll tax receipts or the like, there are millions of contractors, business owners, etc. who don't have payroll taxes taken out of their income.

And it's the easiest thing in the world* to recoup excess payments to the wealthy by increasing their marginal taxes a bit next year.

*practically speaking and ignoring the politics

RE: House Dems Unveil Their Bill - OutsiderFan - 03-23-2020

I can't wait to see Mitch die on the "giving Americans easier access to voting is a power grab" hill. Even he might not be malevolent enough to try because 67% of Americans want easier access to voting.

https://www.people-press.org/2018/10/29/the-publics-voting-values/

Agree with expanding of unemployment benefits and paid sick leave rather than direct payments. Lots of people remain employed and getting paid. Extra benefits should be given to anyone laid off from March 1 through Dec. 31, 2020. The unemployment benefits systems are setup and can be expanded. Not sure how the paid sick leave works and who would have to provide it because many employers couldn't afford it.

No way should any company getting money printed by the Fed (as a result of QE) be allowed to buy its own stock or give money to executives, buy capital equipment, etc.

Everything else, I can go either way, though feeding kids should always be the top priority.

RE: House Dems Unveil Their Bill - cardcrimson - 03-23-2020

Not sure the accuracy, but sure appears to be snippets of Pelosi's bill.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1242116258834845710.html

Bailing out the Post Office?

Federal union bargaining?

Greenhouse gas emissions from airplanes?

Racial pay equity and corporate board diversity?

Amended IRS rules for community newspapers?

Same day voter registration?

Help us understand how ANY of those help fight, or recover from, Covid-19.

(03-23-2020, 11:59 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I can't wait to see Mitch die on the "giving Americans easier access to voting is a power grab" hill. Even he might not be malevolent enough to try because 67% of Americans want easier access to voting.

So you're in favor of the Dems holding up funding to fight the coronavirus, to hold ransom hundreds of millions of people that are suffering, in order to push the Dem agenda? And you're calling McConnell malevolent?

RE: House Dems Unveil Their Bill - burger - 03-23-2020

(03-23-2020, 11:59 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Agree with expanding of unemployment benefits and paid sick leave rather than direct payments. Lots of people remain employed and getting paid. Extra benefits should be given to anyone laid off from March 1 through Dec. 31, 2020. The unemployment benefits systems are setup and can be expanded. Not sure how the paid sick leave works and who would have to provide it because many employers couldn't afford it.

How does additional money for unemployment insurance help contractors, uber and lyft drivers, business owners, and people who's benefits have expired? You can say "well they just need to change the eligibility requirements" but that means drafting new regulations, training people on implementing them, etc. It will take weeks optimistically and more likely months. There's no time for that. Plus what happens when some state sues because they are being forced to follow a federal mandat

Checks for everyone is the only way to do this in a reasonable amount of time. Get the money back from the rich by raising taxes on the wealthy next year. Interest rates are near 0 for federal borrowing, so it's basically free.

RE: House Dems Unveil Their Bill - cardcrimson - 03-23-2020

Accuracy. That's not CNBC's summary of its contents. It's Pelosi's own summary of the contents, as reported by CNBC. A big difference methinks.

(03-23-2020, 11:05 AM)2006alum Wrote: FYI, the House Dems just unveiled their bill. Here's CNBC's summary of its contents:

Quote:
Requirements that corporations getting bailout money shield workers’ wages and benefits, and limits on CEO compensation, stock buybacks and layoffs.

Direct payments to Americans, along with expanded paid family and medical leave.

Grants and loans to small businesses.

Strengthened unemployment insurance.

Increased funding for hospitals and tougher safety standards for health care workers.

Language urging President Donald Trump to invoke the Defense Production Act to manufacture more health care supplies.

$40 billion in funding for schools and universities along with student debt relief.

More funding for the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program and other food assistance programs.

State election grants and a national requirement for 15 days of early voting and no-excuse absentee voting as fears grow about coronavirus spreading at crowded polling sites.

RE: House Dems Unveil Their Bill - OutsiderFan - 03-23-2020

(03-23-2020, 12:03 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: Not sure the accuracy, but sure appears to be snippets of Pelosi's bill.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1242116258834845710.html

Bailing out the Post Office?

Federal union bargaining?

Greenhouse gas emissions from airplanes?

Racial pay equity and corporate board diversity?

Amended IRS rules for community newspapers?

Same day voter registration?

Help us understand how ANY of those help fight, or recover from, Covid-19.

(03-23-2020, 11:59 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I can't wait to see Mitch die on the "giving Americans easier access to voting is a power grab" hill. Even he might not be malevolent enough to try because 67% of Americans want easier access to voting.

So you're in favor of the Dems holding up funding to fight the coronavirus, to hold ransom hundreds of millions of people that are suffering, in order to push the Dem agenda? And you're calling McConnell malevolent?

Yes. Americans need access to mail in ballots to avoid crowds and lines at polling places. This is what Mitch gets for not even bringing up for vote any House passed bills. More to the point, why should Senate Dems be blamed when Mitch can't get his own bill passed in the Senate he controls?

The way it's suppose to work is both houses pass their own bills and then a conference committee works out the differences. The House will pass its bill, and the Senate won't have one, which will mean the Senate passes the House bill or nothing. Politics is a rough sport, and it's never a good idea to treat the other side without respect, because you never know when the bill comes due.

RE: House Dems Unveil Their Bill - BostonCard - 03-23-2020

Yeah, the House gambit is as helpful as Senate Republicans insisting on $500 billion bailout for corporations with very limited oversight at the discretion of the Treasury Secretary.

But I think between the two bills you can craft a compromise that includes the most critical portions.

I agree most of the provisions are just stuffing in wishlist items; however, vote-by-mail provisions make sense now, since there is a lag time for setting these things up and you want to have them in place if the coronavirus is still an ongoing problem in November.

BC

(03-23-2020, 12:44 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The way it's suppose to work is both houses pass their own bills and then a conference committee works out the differences. The House will pass its bill, and the Senate won't have one, which will mean the Senate passes the House bill or nothing. Politics is a rough sport, and it's never a good idea to treat the other side without respect, because you never know when the bill comes due.

Neither party controls all the levers of government, which means neither party will get everything it wants. But also, both sides recognize that a broad bill to keep the economy from cratering has to pass. In the end, the two parties broadly agree about the core of the bill, but each side is going to try to use the fact that it is a "must pass" bill to pass other stuff they want to pass. My prediction is that after all the Sturm und Drang, a bill will pass, and it will broadly have everything both parties agree it needs to have, and a little bit of pet stuff for each party. That's the way the sausage is made.

BC

RE: House Dems Unveil Their Bill - cardcrimson - 03-23-2020

Just so we're clear. You're in favor of ransoming hundreds of millions of suffering people to push an agenda.

(03-23-2020, 12:44 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:
(03-23-2020, 12:03 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: Not sure the accuracy, but sure appears to be snippets of Pelosi's bill.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1242116258834845710.html

Bailing out the Post Office?

Federal union bargaining?

Greenhouse gas emissions from airplanes?

Racial pay equity and corporate board diversity?

Amended IRS rules for community newspapers?

Same day voter registration?

Help us understand how ANY of those help fight, or recover from, Covid-19.

(03-23-2020, 11:59 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I can't wait to see Mitch die on the "giving Americans easier access to voting is a power grab" hill. Even he might not be malevolent enough to try because 67% of Americans want easier access to voting.

So you're in favor of the Dems holding up funding to fight the coronavirus, to hold ransom hundreds of millions of people that are suffering, in order to push the Dem agenda? And you're calling McConnell malevolent?

Yes. Americans need access to mail in ballots to avoid crowds and lines at polling places. This is what Mitch gets for not even bringing up for vote any House passed bills. More to the point, why should Senate Dems be blamed when Mitch can't get his own bill passed in the Senate he controls?

The way it's suppose to work is both houses pass their own bills and then a conference committee works out the differences. The House will pass its bill, and the Senate won't have one, which will mean the Senate passes the House bill or nothing. Politics is a rough sport, and it's never a good idea to treat the other side without respect, because you never know when the bill comes due.

RE: House Dems Unveil Their Bill - BostonCard - 03-23-2020

(03-23-2020, 12:57 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: Just so we're clear. You're in favor of ransoming hundreds of millions of suffering people to push an agenda.

Nobody is ransoming anything. This is part and parcel of the legislative process, and roughly what you would expect when congress is divided. Republicans won't (and shouldn't) roll over for Pelosi's House bill and likewise you shouldn't expect Democrats to roll over for McConnell's bill. The final bill will contain the elements both sides agree on, and probably a few elements that each side didn't want, but I expect it will pass.

BC

RE: House Dems Unveil Their Bill - OutsiderFan - 03-23-2020

(03-23-2020, 01:05 PM)BostonCard Wrote:
(03-23-2020, 12:57 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: Just so we're clear. You're in favor of ransoming hundreds of millions of suffering people to push an agenda.

Nobody is ransoming anything. This is part and parcel of the legislative process, and roughly what you would expect when congress is divided. Republicans won't (and shouldn't) roll over for Pelosi's House bill and likewise you shouldn't expect Democrats to roll over for McConnell's bill. The final bill will contain the elements both sides agree on, and probably a few elements that each side didn't want, but I expect it will pass.

BC

This is exactly correct. Dems didn't block anything. They simply voted against a bill they didn't like, just like I would presume Repubs will vote against the House bill if they don't like it. The difference is the House can pass a bill and the Senate can't. That's nobody's fault other than whoever is leading the Senate.

RE: House Dems Unveil Their Bill - cardcrimson - 03-23-2020

(03-23-2020, 01:05 PM)BostonCard Wrote:
(03-23-2020, 12:57 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: Just so we're clear. You're in favor of ransoming hundreds of millions of suffering people to push an agenda.

Nobody is ransoming anything. This is part and parcel of the legislative process, and roughly what you would expect when congress is divided. Republicans won't (and shouldn't) roll over for Pelosi's House bill and likewise you shouldn't expect Democrats to roll over for McConnell's bill. The final bill will contain the elements both sides agree on, and probably a few elements that each side didn't want, but I expect it will pass.

BC

In my opinion, there is a brobdingnagian difference between neglecting safeguards in the bailouts (which should go in), and adding in greenhouse gas regulations for airlines.

And this from the Majority Whip James Clyburn (D., S.C.): The bill was “a tremendous opportunity to restructure things to fit our vision.”

“You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what I mean by that is an opportunity to do things that you think you could not do before.” -- Rahm Emanuel.

Sounds like ransom to me. . . .

RE: House Dems Unveil Their Bill - 82lsju - 03-23-2020

(03-23-2020, 11:37 AM)burger Wrote: It's not about entitlement. It's about efficiency. We do not have weeks and months to figure out how to verify current income. Even if you could use payroll tax receipts or the like, there are millions of contractors, business owners, etc. who don't have payroll taxes taken out of their income.

And it's the easiest thing in the world* to recoup excess payments to the wealthy by increasing their marginal taxes a bit next year.

*practically speaking and ignoring the politics

why not just have a cut off at $x of AGI from your 2018 tax return and pay $y/dependent on the return? I would think that generating that list would be a database query at the IRS.

Of course this would exclude people who did not file a tax return, not sure how many people are in that group that would be on another list that the government could use to generate checks.

RE: House Dems Unveil Their Bill - burger - 03-23-2020

(03-23-2020, 01:24 PM)82lsju Wrote:
(03-23-2020, 11:37 AM)burger Wrote: It's not about entitlement. It's about efficiency. We do not have weeks and months to figure out how to verify current income. Even if you could use payroll tax receipts or the like, there are millions of contractors, business owners, etc. who don't have payroll taxes taken out of their income.

And it's the easiest thing in the world* to recoup excess payments to the wealthy by increasing their marginal taxes a bit next year.

*practically speaking and ignoring the politics

why not just have a cut off at $x of AGI from your 2018 tax return and pay $y/dependent on the return? I would think that generating that list would be a database query at the IRS.

Of course this would exclude people who did not file a tax return, not sure how many people are in that group that would be on another list that the government could use to generate checks.

Because even some people who did well in 2018 may need help now. Admittedly, most of the current shock seems to be in the service sector, but it will eventually bubble upward as people stop spending. There are probably a lot of restaurant owners hurting now, for instance.

(03-23-2020, 01:19 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:
(03-23-2020, 01:05 PM)BostonCard Wrote:
(03-23-2020, 12:57 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: Just so we're clear. You're in favor of ransoming hundreds of millions of suffering people to push an agenda.

Nobody is ransoming anything. This is part and parcel of the legislative process, and roughly what you would expect when congress is divided. Republicans won't (and shouldn't) roll over for Pelosi's House bill and likewise you shouldn't expect Democrats to roll over for McConnell's bill. The final bill will contain the elements both sides agree on, and probably a few elements that each side didn't want, but I expect it will pass.

BC

In my opinion, there is a of immense proportions difference between neglecting safeguards in the bailouts (which should go in), and adding in greenhouse gas regulations for airlines.

And this from the Majority Whip James Clyburn (D., S.C.): The bill was “a tremendous opportunity to restructure things to fit our vision.”

“You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what I mean by that is an opportunity to do things that you think you could not do before.” -- Rahm Emanuel.

Sounds like ransom to me. . . .

Ransom would be "we will not have a bailout unless you pass the green new deal." Has anyone said that? Is anyone in House leadership even thinking that? I seriously doubt it.

If you know of any democrats doing that, let me know. Writing a bill that has a wish list of projects isn't ransom--it's negotiating.

RE: House Dems Unveil Their Bill - OutsiderFan - 03-23-2020

You never get what you don't ask for in most cases.

RE: House Dems Unveil Their Bill - magnus - 03-23-2020

The cynic (or realist?) might say that in this day and age, each team needs to throw in sacrificial lambs that the other side can claim victory on (for the optics).

RE: House Dems Unveil Their Bill - cardcrimson - 03-23-2020

Isn't voting methodology left up to the states? I can mail in my ballot every election. . . .

RE: House Dems Unveil Their Bill - Snorlax94 - 03-23-2020

(03-23-2020, 02:09 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: Isn't voting methodology left up to the states? I can mail in my ballot every election. . . .

You must live in an enlightened state like California.

Only 6 states permit permanent, no-excuse absentee ballots. 20 states permit absentee ballots only with excuse, and some do not permit it at all (even if you have reasons!)

Many people do not appreciate or are not aware that voting is difficult for many, many Americans. When you hear of states where people get off work and wait in line for hours and hours, even in the rain or snow, often it is because in their state, that’s the only way they can vote (no absentee ballots, no early ballots, all voting done only in their polling place, which can be overwhelmed)

“Absentee voting by mail without excuse is allowed in 27 states and DC. In 20 states, an excuse is required. No-excuse permanent absentee voting is allowed in 6 states and in DC”
(From wikipedia)