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OT: News Flash--Duke is not Stanford - Printable Version

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OT: News Flash--Duke is not Stanford - JJJ - 04-25-2018

I didn't know Pat Forde's daughter was at Stanford.

"Don’t let the idyllic campus, small enrollment and brobdingnagian tuition fool you. Duke is taking another step toward Jock School status.

A university that U.S. News & World Report ranks among the 10 best in America in 2018 is tweaking its standards again for the sake of athletics. An esteemed academic institution that once at least aspired to keep sports seamlessly interwoven into the overall mission of the university has further frayed that tapestry. The most prestigious member of the Atlantic Coast Conference might not be on a slippery slope to Alabama, but it’s not Stanford, either."



http://sports.yahoo.com/duke-shows-athletes-exception-rules-housing-snafu-191051138.html

RE: OT: News Flash--Duke is not Stanford - 2006alum - 04-26-2018

Thanks for sharing this, JJJ. As a "NARP," I can't imagine not having a truly random roommate selection process. Such a brobdingnagian part of the freshman college experience.

I will say, as much as I love to root against Notre Lame, I do respect them far, far more than Puke and some of the other schools that are supposedly academically rigorous. UNCoughcough.

RE: OT: News Flash--Duke is not Stanford - OutsiderFan - 04-26-2018

The idea of picking your own roommates is so childish. You're suppose to be start becoming a responsible adult in college. The first step is to live with people randomly whom you don't know. It sets the stage for having to work with people you don't choose to work with when in "the real world."

That all said, I love any column inches devoted to pointing out the fraudulence of Duke athletes somehow being anything close to the same as the non-athlete student body. They are a mercenary school no different than sports factories like Kentucky, Alabama, Ohio State. The "Duke" brand of academic elitism does not belong on Duke athletes, ever.

RE: OT: News Flash--Duke is not Stanford - Goose - 04-26-2018

Showing my age, I have to ask. Are Stanford roommate assignments freshman year now randomized? In my freshman year, you didn't get to choose your roommate, but the Housing Office went to great lengths to do it for us using criteria they somewhat explained but not really. Not sure if it was "better" or "worse" than random, but for sure, it wasn't random.

RE: OT: News Flash--Duke is not Stanford - 2006alum - 04-26-2018

(04-26-2018, 06:32 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  The idea of picking your own roommates is so childish.  You're suppose to be start becoming a responsible adult in college.  The first step is to live with people randomly whom you don't know.  It sets the stage for having to work with people you don't choose to work with when in "the real world."  

That all said, I love any column inches devoted to pointing out the fraudulence of Duke athletes somehow being anything close to the same as the non-athlete student body.  They are a mercenary school no different than sports factories like Kentucky, Alabama, Ohio State. The "Duke" brand of academic elitism does not belong on Duke athletes, ever.

Goose, you're right that it's not totally random - housing does ask students to fill out questionnaires, and they do try to match based on similar levels of cleanliness, early vs. late risers, etc. But for the student, there's no way to request a certain kind of roommate (friend, fellow athlete or non-athlete, same race or geographic origin, etc.), so you are in effect given a "random" roommate.

RE: OT: News Flash--Duke is not Stanford - OutsiderFan - 04-26-2018

I'm sure all college housing operations collect some basic data in effort to make roommates compatible based on interests/traits. The idea of saying "I want to room with Tommy" is what I find objectionable.

RE: OT: News Flash--Duke is not Stanford - Goose - 04-26-2018

(04-26-2018, 06:58 AM)2006alum Wrote:  
(04-26-2018, 06:32 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  The idea of picking your own roommates is so childish.  You're suppose to be start becoming a responsible adult in college.  The first step is to live with people randomly whom you don't know.  It sets the stage for having to work with people you don't choose to work with when in "the real world."  

That all said, I love any column inches devoted to pointing out the fraudulence of Duke athletes somehow being anything close to the same as the non-athlete student body.  They are a mercenary school no different than sports factories like Kentucky, Alabama, Ohio State. The "Duke" brand of academic elitism does not belong on Duke athletes, ever.

Goose, you're right that it's not totally random - housing does ask students to fill out questionnaires, and they do try to match based on similar levels of cleanliness, early vs. late risers, etc. But for the student, there's no way to request a certain kind of roommate (friend, fellow athlete or non-athlete, same race or geographic origin, etc.), so you are in effect given a "random" roommate.

I don't see how that is "objectionable" at all. After freshman year, that is exactly what people do. However, if the University has a policy that you can't do that Freshman year, that policy should apply to all students. Making exceptions is what I would find objectionable. There is a lot to be said for a policy of letting Housing choose your freshman roommate. However, I don't see any particular moral superiority of that method over lots of other approaches.

RE: OT: News Flash--Duke is not Stanford - ColoradoTree - 04-26-2018

As an aside, if you follow Pat Forde on Twitter, you'll know he's long been an avid fan of college (and Olympic, for that matter) swimming due to the fact that one son swam at Mizzou and another swims at Georgia. He was pretty excited when Brooke committed to Stanford, and he's used his profile to highlight the Stanford women's team in general, not just Brooke's performances (which were certainly terrific--a three-time All-American as a freshman is nothing to sneeze at).

RE: OT: News Flash--Duke is not Stanford - 2006alum - 04-26-2018

(04-26-2018, 08:31 AM)Goose Wrote:  I don't see how that is "objectionable" at all. After freshman year, that is exactly what people do. However, if the University has a policy that you can't do that Freshman year, that policy should apply to all students. Making exceptions is what I would find objectionable. There is a lot to be said for a policy of letting Housing choose your freshman roommate. However, I don't see any particular moral superiority of that method over lots of other approaches.

I think the grounds for objection stem from the fact that frosh could self-select on the basis of prejudice or privilege ("of prejudice or privilege" - sounds like the Jane Austen novel for the 21st century). Part of the point of a liberal arts education, and a core value for Stanford's undergraduate experience, is to swim in unexplored waters, and residential education (yes, they call it "residential education" rather than "housing") is very much part of that experience. It's the same reason why freshmen are required to live on campus and can't have a car - there's intrinsic value in being exposed to experiences not of your choosing. Maybe I'm an indoctrinated partisan since I was an RA in a freshman dorm, but I'm a really big believer in the value of having frosh show up on day one and not have much control over their first few weeks on campus.

RE: OT: News Flash--Duke is not Stanford - Renaissance Man - 04-26-2018

I remember that a number of people felt that Stanford's lack of flexibility on the random roommate policy was unreasonable in the mid 90's when Josh and Micah Webb, highly rated offensive tackles who were twin brothers, wanted to come to Stanford, but settled for UCLA when Stanford refused to allow them to room together.

RE: OT: News Flash--Duke is not Stanford - CTcard - 04-26-2018

(04-26-2018, 06:32 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  The idea of picking your own roommates is so childish.  You're suppose to be start becoming a responsible adult in college.  The first step is to live with people randomly whom you don't know.  


I don't know, it seems that ever since I became an adult I have picked my own roommates. Particularly upon getting married I suppose. 

Still, I think the pseudo-random assignment of roommates for frosh is a good idea. 


Quote from Goose:
-------------------------------
Showing my age, I have to ask. Are Stanford roommate assignments freshman year now randomized? In my freshman year, you didn't get to choose your roommate, but the Housing Office went to great lengths to do it for us using criteria they somewhat explained but not really. Not sure if it was "better" or "worse" than random, but for sure, it wasn't random.
------------------------------

Yes, back in the day, getting the summer job assigning the incoming frosh roommates was considered quite the plum. 
One year two good friends of mine had that position. 

There were lots of guidelines, which they basically tried to stick to, but as you can imagine occasionally a few ... extraneous considerations came to the fore. [I seem to remember one double with occupants having the surnames "Rock" and "Roll".]


By the way, has anyone figured out how to quote a second post within a single reply under our new board?

RE: OT: News Flash--Duke is not Stanford - Snorlax94 - 04-26-2018

I know people who expressed significant preferences in their Frosh housing roommate, and were granted them. In the portion for "Anything else we should know?" my cousin explicitly requested a roommate who was Christian, and she was paired with someone else who explicitly requested a Christian. Though, over time, I could see the housing people frowning upon this and creating a guideline to avoid such accommodations.

As for CT Card's example of the roommates "Rock" and "Roll" -- when I was a student, there was a triple and three Frosh named "Faith," "Hope," and "Charity," were randomly matched together. =)

I think the scandal for Duke is not that people can choose roommates (people at commuter schools fend for themselves entirely), but that there was a special policy for athletes that did not apply to the rest of the students.

Although the lacrosse team was criminally acquitted in the rape/sexual assault , a lot of abhorrent (but not criminal) behaviors came came to light, and I have to think that the more you treat athletes differently and give them a privileged status, the more likely they will be to behave in a privileged way on campus.

RE: OT: News Flash--Duke is not Stanford - BostonCard - 04-26-2018

(04-26-2018, 09:34 AM)mholliday Wrote:  I remember that a number of people felt that Stanford's lack of flexibility on the random roommate policy was unreasonable in the mid 90's when Josh and Micah Webb, highly rated offensive tackles who were twin brothers, wanted to come to Stanford, but settled for UCLA when Stanford refused to allow them to room together.

Seriously, this is the reason they picked UCLA over Stanford?  Sorry, it is not worth changing our policy just for two highly rated players.  We've had several sets of twins who have not had a problem.

BC

RE: OT: News Flash--Duke is not Stanford - M T - 04-26-2018

(04-26-2018, 11:24 AM)BostonCard Wrote:  
(04-26-2018, 09:34 AM)mholliday Wrote:  I remember that a number of people felt that Stanford's lack of flexibility on the random roommate policy was unreasonable in the mid 90's when Josh and Micah Webb, highly rated offensive tackles who were twin brothers, wanted to come to Stanford, but settled for UCLA when Stanford refused to allow them to room together.

Seriously, this is the reason they picked UCLA over Stanford?  Sorry, it is not worth changing our policy just for two highly rated players.  We've had several sets of twins who have not had a problem.

BC

Seriously, some rather insignificant policy blocks siblings (twins, at that) from rooming together?  Sounds pedantic to me!  I can see why someone would figure the school is more concerned about bureaucracy than being reasonable, and then choosing to go elsewhere.

RE: OT: News Flash--Duke is not Stanford - 2006alum - 04-26-2018

(04-26-2018, 12:33 PM)MT1234 Wrote:  Seriously, some rather insignificant policy blocks siblings (twins, at that) from rooming together?  Sounds pedantic to me!  I can see why someone would figure the school is more concerned about bureaucracy than being reasonable, and then choosing to go elsewhere.

If by "bureaucracy" you mean "fairness to all students," and by "being reasonable" you mean "giving athletes special treatment." A policy is a policy, and I'm not sure why they should get a special exception just because they are highly recruited athletes. Even Chelsea Clinton had a non-chosen roommate as a freshman, and she needed Secret Service protection and special dorm room locationality to enable them to cover her 24/7.

It's fair to disagree with the policy, but to be clear, then they preferred not to make the 40 year decision in order to bunk with each other for a year. I find that baffling. I'm just thankful the Collins, Lopii, and Hull twins all had the wisdom to see past such apparently intolerable (and temporary) inconvenience.