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Time for Stnford to find a way to permit early entrants - Printable Version

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Time for Stnford to find a way to permit early entrants - ljw63 - 01-04-2018

It seems to be fairly common for some of the best players to leave for the NFL draft at their first opportunity.  One of the implications of that fact is that we should not redshirt the best freshmen because we may lose them after their junior year or at best their senior year, so we should not waste a year of their talent.  Would Solomon Thomas have been able to contribute his freshman year?  He might not have been a stud but he would have mad a positive contribution.  Most freshman would be able to contribute more if they had the benefit of a spring practice, perhaps even QBs.  Most other schools permit early enrollment so our lack may begin to make us less competitive.  I realize this policy is made at a higher level than the football team, but I am sure something could be worked out that would not diminish our academic excellence.

Re: Time for Stnford to find a way to permit early entrants - lex24 - 01-04-2018

I have a hard time believing Stanford would change admissions policies for football.


(01-04-2018, 02:40 PM)ljw63 link Wrote:It seems to be fairly common for some of the best players to leave for the NFL draft at their first opportunity.  One of the implications of that fact is that we should not redshirt the best freshmen because we may lose them after their junior year or at best their senior year, so we should not waste a year of their talent.  Would Solomon Thomas have been able to contribute his freshman year?  He might not have been a stud but he would have mad a positive contribution.  Most freshman would be able to contribute more if they had the benefit of a spring practice, perhaps even QBs.  Most other schools permit early enrollment so our lack may begin to make us less competitive.  I realize this policy is made at a higher level than the football team, but I am sure something could be worked out that would not diminish our academic excellence.


Re: Time for Stnford to find a way to permit early entrants - ColoradoTree - 01-04-2018

Plus, I think it's pretty evident that Stanford isn't shy about burning redshirts for the freshmen the staff feels can contribute right away.  You can quibble with how a particular player is/was used in that true freshman year, of course, but the idea that we redshirt everyone (or the "best freshmen") as a matter of policy is simply not true. 

Re: Time for Stnford to find a way to permit early entrants - BobK - 01-04-2018

Many on the three Stanford boards thought it terrible that Phillips burned his Frosh year redshirt.  Turned out good we did play him.

Re: Time for Stnford to find a way to permit early entrants - OutsiderFan - 01-04-2018

I don't think anyone was bothered by Phillips playing as a Frosh per se.  Any umbrage taken was more due to the fact he played NT at 255.  If he was 295, it seems doubtful anyone would have taken exception.

Re: Time for Stnford to find a way to permit early entrants - CowboyIndian - 01-04-2018

It's contrary to what has been an excellent and rewarding policy of making sure all freshmen have a strong class identitiy. I don't want to see it change, even for some perceived possible football benefit, and I doubt it will.

Re: Time for Stnford to find a way to permit early entrants - PVTree - 01-04-2018

No, to early entrants. I don't want Stanford to be driven by football. I prefer it be a very rewarding complement.

I like that athletes can be treated as regular Joes. I don't like all-athlete dorms, although some frats were very close to it.

Re: Time for Stnford to find a way to permit early entrants - needle - 01-04-2018

If it would benefit the students--and I think it might, at least in theory--then we as fans should keep an open mind about this. Yes, it would be the tail wagging the dog, but arriving early could end up help the incoming students adjust academically as well as get on the field more quickly.

Socially, I suspect that by the end of their time at Stanford they would identify just as strongly with their frosh peers as if they had arrived on campus at the same time.

Re: Time for Stnford to find a way to permit early entrants - 2006alum - 01-04-2018

I don't think our campus is well suited for this, scholastically or residentially.

Scholastically, at least when I was there, there was IHUM and PWR1 to be taken the first quarter of freshman year. So then they'd have to finish the IHUM core in their sophomore year? And possibly take PWR1 after PWR2? Most of the schools that have early enrollment don't have a core curriculum the way that Stanford does for frosh.

Residentially, all frosh live on campus in all-frosh or four class dorms. Winter quarter is already the hardest to meet housing demand with many students returning from a fall abroad. Assuming they could place these frosh, where would they go? In the few random spots that open up in four-class dorms? In random upper-class housing? I think it'd really wreck a frosh's experience to be randomly plopped somewhere on campus.

Re: Time for Stnford to find a way to permit early entrants - CTcard - 01-05-2018

(01-04-2018, 07:01 PM)needle link Wrote:If it would benefit the students--and I think it might, at least in theory--then we as fans should keep an open mind about this.

It is currently not done specifically to benefit the students.

In matters such as this my opinion is more as an alum and less as a fan. 

Re: Time for Stnford to find a way to permit early entrants - needle - 01-05-2018

Duke and Northwestern already allow early enrollees for their football programs. I would be very curious what the early enrollees at those schools have to say about their experiences.

Edited to add link:

https://www.insidenu.com/2017/1/18/14312696/sam-miller-trey-pugh-northwestern-football-2017-recruiting-early-enrollees-pat-fitzgerald

Re: Time for Stnford to find a way to permit early entrants - OutsiderFan - 01-05-2018

As someone who came into college as a mid-year JC transfer, and also transferred grad school mid-year, I can attest to it being a little bit uncomfortable to be off schedule with most people in your peer group. Everyone you encounter has already made friends with others in the previous semester/quarter, particular in housing context, and you feel a bit isolated at first. But it doesn't take long to assimilate.  Frankly, it's a good experience to be put through uncomfortable situations like that.

One of the best times of my life was a kayaking trip I took to Baja through Sonoma State's campus recreation program, that was actually led by the UC San Diego recreation program.  I signed up to go, not knowing anyone else on the trip.  Everyone was a little uncomfortable at the outset being with a dozen strangers, but by the time the trip was over a week later, we acted like we had known each other forever.

I honestly see no reason why mid-year enrollees shouldn't be allowed.  It's not going to impact the university one iota, beyond having housing work to bring in students mid-year.  Only those who actually are the early enrollees will be impacted. They won't get the typical orientation classes, or other special treatment beginning of year students get, but if they want to sign up for it, why not let them?  I've heard David Shaw say they want kids to experience their full Senior year for "it would be nice to do that" reasons, but no reason that has anything to do with the university per se.

My feeling on it is Stanford doesn't allow early enrollees because of the symbolism/self-proclaimed stigma of doing it for sports.  One way to resolve this is to allow early enrollment for anyone, whether they play sports or not. 

I hated high school and couldn't wait to get out. But I hated it so much that I had no choice but to stay through my Senior year just in order to graduate, because I did so poorly academically in high school. If I could have graduated early to start college in January of what would have been my high school Senior year, I absolutely would have. It's not like high school is all that important anyway.  I barely graduated high school with a 2.0 GPA, yet managed a 3.6 GPA my first year of JC.

Re: Time for Stnford to find a way to permit early entrants - helix - 01-05-2018

(01-04-2018, 07:01 PM)needle link Wrote:If it would benefit the students--and I think it might, at least in theory--then we as fans should keep an open mind about this. Yes, it would be the tail wagging the dog, but arriving early could end up help the incoming students adjust academically as well as get on the field more quickly.

Socially, I suspect that by the end of their time at Stanford they would identify just as strongly with their frosh peers as if they had arrived on campus at the same time.

All the frosh enroll in summer quarter classes so that they can adjust academically. As an alum, I agree with CTcard's sentiments, there are too many issues with regards to mandatory frosh classes for this to work in a way that benefits the student.

Re: Time for Stnford to find a way to permit early entrants - teejers1 - 01-05-2018

While recognizing OutsiderFan's point that Stanford would easily survive early enrollments (as would the students), I'm in the camp with CI, CTC, and others favoring the status quo.

But then again, I'm old and cranky . . .

Re: Time for Stnford to find a way to permit early entrants - CowboyIndian - 01-05-2018

(01-05-2018, 01:07 PM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:One of the best times of my life was a kayaking trip I took to Baja through Sonoma State's campus recreation program....

That is a long ways to kayak!

Re: Time for Stnford to find a way to permit early entrants - Mick - 01-05-2018

(01-05-2018, 01:07 PM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:I hated high school and couldn't wait to get out. But I hated it so much that I had no choice but to stay through my Senior year just in order to graduate, because I did so poorly academically in high school. If I could have graduated early to start college in January of what would have been my high school Senior year, I absolutely would have. It's not like high school is all that important anyway.  I barely graduated high school with a 2.0 GPA, yet managed a 3.6 GPA my first year of JC.

+1.  My high school was so horrendous, I treated it like this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djdQDsB55QI

I begged my dad to let me graduate a semester early so I could get on with my life.  No dice.

Re: Time for Stnford to find a way to permit early entrants - TreesAndBirds - 01-05-2018

(01-05-2018, 04:54 PM)teejers1 link Wrote:While recognizing OutsiderFan's point that Stanford would easily survive early enrollments (as would the students), I'm in the camp with CI, CTC, and others favoring the status quo.

But then again, I'm old and cranky . . .

I agree. Stanford tries to make sure athletes are integrated with the rest of the student body. This would be unhelpful.

But I also think that with the new early recruiting commitment date, the advantages of spring workouts that arent available to Stanford recruits, the June graduation that hurts our guys going to the NFL, the late night games which limit visibility on the east coast...in addition to the well known rigors of the Stanford application process and the day to day academic requirements...recruiting is not going to get easier. I hope some people in the AD office and admin are thinking creatively about how we might address these without compromising our primary mission of academics.

Re: Time for Stnford to find a way to permit early entrants - Phogge - 01-06-2018

(01-05-2018, 05:23 PM)CowboyIndian link Wrote:[quote author=OutsiderFan link=topic=18487.msg220357#msg220357 date=1515182833]
One of the best times of my life was a kayaking trip I took to Baja through Sonoma State's campus recreation program....

That is a long ways to kayak!
[/quote]

Hell no. Just load in on the Russian River in Healdsburg and when you hit Jenner just head South. Bring enough food to last until Princeton, then Cambria and you're almost there.

Re: Time for Stnford to find a way to permit early entrants - lex24 - 01-06-2018

Agree Teejers.

(01-05-2018, 04:54 PM)teejers1 link Wrote:While recognizing OutsiderFan's point that Stanford would easily survive early enrollments (as would the students), I'm in the camp with CI, CTC, and others favoring the status quo.

But then again, I'm old and cranky . . .


Re: Time for Stnford to find a way to permit early entrants - BostonCard - 01-06-2018

(01-06-2018, 11:37 AM)lex24 link Wrote:Agree Teejers.

[quote author=teejers1 link=topic=18487.msg220377#msg220377 date=1515196464]
While recognizing OutsiderFan's point that Stanford would easily survive early enrollments (as would the students), I'm in the camp with CI, CTC, and others favoring the status quo.

But then again, I'm old and cranky . . .
[/quote]

Which part do you agree with?  Favoring the status quo, or Teejers being old and cranky?

BC