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Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - Printable Version

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Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - 82lsju - 08-08-2017

looks like Shaw had pretty good insight into Rosen's potential fit at Stanford

https://www.si.com/college-football/2017/08/08/josh-rosen-student-athlete-ncaa-comments?utm_campaign=sportsillustrated&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&xid=socialflow_facebook_si

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - Durty Nelly - 08-08-2017

Wow!!!

He must have no time for the hut tub and the sorority girls.  I don't think so.  UCLA is actually too good of a school for him.  JC football would have been appropriate.

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - fullmetal - 08-08-2017

That, and UCLA's environment really exposes the battle between academics and the pressure of money/fame foisted on student-athletes.  Maybe Rosen should spend less time on..."extracurricular" activities and more time on his studies and football.

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - SF_Cardinal_Fan - 08-08-2017

(08-08-2017, 09:40 AM)eric link Wrote:looks like Shaw had pretty good insight into Rosen's potential fit at Stanford

https://www.si.com/college-football/2017/08/08/josh-rosen-student-athlete-ncaa-comments?utm_campaign=sportsillustrated&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&xid=socialflow_facebook_si

I do not understand the point you are trying to make. Please expand it and, or, clarify.
My take on Rosen's comments is that he is saying things that have said before, and that he does not mind sparking controversy.

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - qwerty49 - 08-08-2017

There's a lot of truth in what he said. Let's not go all holier-than-thou. We have high academic standards that demand high character and extraordinary time management skills. Other schools, less so. But we've had our academic casualties as well.

Well, cut to the chase - Redrum - 08-08-2017

1. Rosen is kind of a d-i-c-k.  An intelligent d-i-c-k, but is one, nonetheless.
2. Dickish-ness aside, would have been a bad choice for him and for Stanford had he ended up here.
3. When/if he is riding the golf cart off the field with his knee packed in ice (and it's not helping), I hope someone interviews him again on his views of the value of academics, even as a backup plan.

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - 82lsju - 08-08-2017

(08-08-2017, 10:06 AM)SF_Cardinal_Fan link Wrote:[quote author=eric link=topic=17134.msg196709#msg196709 date=1502210453]
looks like Shaw had pretty good insight into Rosen's potential fit at Stanford

https://www.si.com/college-football/2017/08/08/josh-rosen-student-athlete-ncaa-comments?utm_campaign=sportsillustrated&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&xid=socialflow_facebook_si

I do not understand the point you are trying to make. Please expand it and, or, clarify.
My take on Rosen's comments is that he is saying things that have said before, and that he does not mind sparking controversy.
[/quote]

there was a lot of back forth here during his recruitment about Stanford not offering him because he was "not a good fit" and whether that was the right decision or not.

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - JohnR34231 - 08-08-2017

Rosen is just saying things we all know are mostly true, and a lot of people have said before him.
Maybe he is a jerk anyway, but does saying that make him one? Not sure it does.

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - DenverCard - 08-08-2017

My primary takeaway is that Rosen was speaking to the amount of time that a college football player must spend on the sport, and suggesting that many in the public don't appreciate that fact.  I did not hear him saying that academics are not important.

As applied to Stanford football players, it makes their accomplishments all the more amazing.

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - murky - 08-08-2017

(08-08-2017, 11:05 AM)JPRI link Wrote:Rosen is just saying things we all know are mostly true, and a lot of people have said before him.
Maybe he is a jerk anyway, but does saying that make him one? Not sure it does.

Yeah, I went into the article expecting something different from what I read.

His comments on football and academics are apt.  He's not going for an easy major, but has to alter his class choices due to the demands of football and the way the school is structured.  Football and school are structured in conflict with one another.

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - Phogge - 08-08-2017

The NFL is so very fortunate that their minor league system is paid for by tuition gifts and taxpayers. He's absolutely correct, there are tons of D1 players who don't belong in university and they are taking up spaces that should belong to other kids.

The service academies are unique, you guys are almost in that class and yet you compete at the highest level. Consider yourselves fortunate to almost attain the perfect blend of scholarship and athletic prowess.

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - indiancardinal - 08-08-2017

(08-08-2017, 11:50 AM)Phogge link Wrote:Consider yourselves fortunate to almost attain the perfect blend of scholarship and athletic prowess.

I believe Rosen had us as his first choice for the above stated reason. Stanford is one of the few places where Football and School go together right now.

We all love Sherman and ADB for their social commentary but they sort of earned the stage in the NFL. Perhaps Shaw saw that Rosen s personality was too volatile for a team leader at C House😃

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - SF_Cardinal_Fan - 08-08-2017

(08-08-2017, 10:58 AM)eric link Wrote:[quote author=SF_Cardinal_Fan link=topic=17134.msg196713#msg196713 date=1502212004]
[quote author=eric link=topic=17134.msg196709#msg196709 date=1502210453]
looks like Shaw had pretty good insight into Rosen's potential fit at Stanford

https://www.si.com/college-football/2017/08/08/josh-rosen-student-athlete-ncaa-comments?utm_campaign=sportsillustrated&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&xid=socialflow_facebook_si

I do not understand the point you are trying to make. Please expand it and, or, clarify.
My take on Rosen's comments is that he is saying things that have said before, and that he does not mind sparking controversy.
[/quote]

there was a lot of back forth here during his recruitment about Stanford not offering him because he was "not a good fit" and whether that was the right decision or not.
[/quote]

Got it, thanks.
I guess only Rosen and his family know whether he would have accepted a Stanford scholarship offer.
On a related subject, it is good for the Pac 12 that Rosen chose the Conference. Having high profile successful QB's such as Rosen, Darnold, Browning etc...increases the nationwide visibility for all Conference schools. Hopefully Costello ,  Mills,  or new recruit will soon put a Stanford QB back at the top of the list.

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - OutsiderFan - 08-08-2017

I know I'm wired differently than most people, especially on this board, but WTF is the big deal here?  Rosen speaks nothing but the unvarnished truth, so how is this even a story worth talking about?

Is it just because he isn't afraid to speak the truth?  Is this the story?  I don't get it.

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - winflop - 08-08-2017

(08-08-2017, 12:22 PM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:I know I'm wired differently than most people, especially on this board, but WTF is the big deal here?  Rosen speaks nothing but the unvarnished truth, so how is this even a story worth talking about?

Is it just because he isn't afraid to speak the truth?  Is this the story?  I don't get it.

I don't think Rosen is speaking truth. I think pretty much every member of the Stanford football team, as well as some of the other "smart" football schools like Duke, Northwestern, and Vanderbilt - would completely disagree with Rosen's assertion. You **CAN** do both and there are tens of thousands who do it every single year.

I think Rosen epitomizes what's wrong with a small proportion of college athletes - they forget the term STUDENT-athlete. The vast majority of scholarship athletes are "going pro in something other than sports" and playing their sport is a way to be able to obtain a college education. Rosen sees this as a pro farm system and doesn't seem to give much of a damn about academics, which is why Shaw made the right decision to not offer him a scholarship.

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - JohnR34231 - 08-08-2017

(08-08-2017, 12:22 PM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:I know I'm wired differently than most people, especially on this board, but WTF is the big deal here?  Rosen speaks nothing but the unvarnished truth, so how is this even a story worth talking about?

Is it just because he isn't afraid to speak the truth?  Is this the story?  I don't get it.

I think the story is that while others often say things like this for public consumption, it is rare that actual student/athletes do, and if they do they are a little more diplomatic and less blunt about it than Rosen is being.
I also think that people who are saying that Rosen's comments mean he doesn't care about academics are reading things into them that just aren't there.

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - ColoradoTree - 08-08-2017

(08-08-2017, 12:22 PM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:I know I'm wired differently than most people, especially on this board, but WTF is the big deal here?  Rosen speaks nothing but the unvarnished truth, so how is this even a story worth talking about?

Is it just because he isn't afraid to speak the truth?  Is this the story?  I don't get it.

I tend to agree.  (And so do a majority of those who have commented on this thread so far.)  It's not that I disagree with Shaw et al's decision not to offer Rosen at the time.  I'm fine with that.  Rosen certainly has a healthy ego and has also shown a lack of maturity, both on and off the field.  He's brash at times, and it seems that's not the locker room culture Coach Shaw is trying to create and maintain.  (I don't think that means Shaw would have problems with players being respectfully outspoken about issues they feel are important; he's said that he encourages players to get involved in things they care about, as long as they are informed on the topic.)

That said, I don't think this interview reflects Rosen putting himself above the team or behaving inappropriately, and I have no problem with it.  I read the transcript, and I thought he made a lot of fair points.  We are unique in the caliber of player and student we can attract, so we can quite rightly feel proud that our guys do it the right way.  But expecting every other school to reach the same heights, or even strive for them, is unrealistic. 

Rosen is getting attacked for what he said, but I think what he said is fair game.  The comment he made about Alabama will certainly rub some folks in SEC country the wrong way, but is he wrong?  It kind of reminds me how Coach Shaw's comments about the reasons for not holding satellite camps in certain places got blown out of proportion. 

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - SUBuddha - 08-08-2017

Here is the entire BR piece...Call me crazy but taken in the full context of the article he has some points.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2722587-josh-rosen-qa-ucla-qb-on-injuries-ncaa-and-post-nfl-goal-to-own-the-world?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-national

Quote:Rosen: It's not that they shouldn't be in school. Human beings don't belong in school with our schedules. No one in their right mind should have a football player's schedule, and go to school. It's not that some players shouldn't be in school; it's just that universities should help them more—instead of just finding ways to keep them eligible.

Any time any player puts into school will take away from the time they could put into football. They don't realize that they're getting screwed until it's too late. You have a bunch of people at the universities who are supposed to help you out, and they're more interested in helping you stay eligible. At some point, universities have to do more to prepare players for university life and help them succeed beyond football. There's so much money being made in this sport. It's a crime to not do everything you can to help the people who are making it for those who are spending it.

This "helping players succeed" point is one where I think LSJU probably exceeds other schools. 

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - Hank 91 - 08-08-2017

I think that as Stanford fans we're preconditioned to dislike Josh Rosen and anything he says, specifically because of the whispers we heard during his recruitment and some of the evidence he's given recently to support those preconceptions. In this case, though, I think he's saying what needs to be said. I can't imagine how these players do what they do, going to school and spending all that additional time practicing, studying film, studying the playbook, working out, traveling to road games, and playing every Saturday. There are other students on campus who spending time working, volunteering, or doing other things in addition to their own coursework, but it's still pretty amazing. I lived across the hall from a football player during my freshman year, he was the most focused person I knew, mainly because he had to be. He never went out -- never. He spent every Friday and Saturday night in his room studying because he needed that time. And this was thirty years ago when, I'm guessing, the demands on Stanford football players were much less than they are today. At media a few years ago, a reporter asked Andrew Luck how many units he'd be taking in the fall, and he said without shame, "I'll be taking the NCAA minimum."

So I'd say Josh Rosen is right -- football and school don't go together. It's amazing that so many of these kids are able to make it work.

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - OutsiderFan - 08-08-2017

(08-08-2017, 12:44 PM)winflop link Wrote:[quote author=OutsiderFan link=topic=17134.msg196725#msg196725 date=1502220151]
I know I'm wired differently than most people, especially on this board, but WTF is the big deal here?  Rosen speaks nothing but the unvarnished truth, so how is this even a story worth talking about?

Is it just because he isn't afraid to speak the truth?  Is this the story?  I don't get it.

I don't think Rosen is speaking truth. I think pretty much every member of the Stanford football team, as well as some of the other "smart" football schools like Duke, Northwestern, and Vanderbilt - would completely disagree with Rosen's assertion. You **CAN** do both and there are tens of thousands who do it every single year.

I think Rosen epitomizes what's wrong with a small proportion of college athletes - they forget the term STUDENT-athlete. The vast majority of scholarship athletes are "going pro in something other than sports" and playing their sport is a way to be able to obtain a college education. Rosen sees this as a pro farm system and doesn't seem to give much of a damn about academics, which is why Shaw made the right decision to not offer him a scholarship.
[/quote]

First of all, Stanford is notorious for being impossible to fail at.  I never went to Stanford, but I've heard stories from people who have, and I know this is one of the primary reasons Cal people don't like Stanford.  Its also a fact that those with fancy degrees have more opportunities than someone who has more "street smarts," didn't develop as a student on Stanford's schedule, and comes from a state school.  So it's a little presumptuous to yell from the Ivory Hoover Tower about who is the fairest of all the student athletes.

Second, not every school supports the student part of student-athlete as a priority over the athlete part.  Rosen clearly sees evidence that at UCLA the priority is the keep players eligible, not educate them.  Cal is notorious for not only offering limited support to student athletes but actually having them be targeted by anti-sports faculty.  But before you can say, "see, Stanford offers great support for athletes," and if guys cared about education they should have gone to Stanford, don't forget that all these schools when they recruit, make quite an effort to demonstrate how much they care about academics.  The truth is for the majority of programs, this is just lip service, and they really only do care about keeping guys eligible.

Be honest, winflop. If Rosen played at Stanford, you'd be lauding him as the kind of guy that speaks his mind and shows he's a real independent thinker, right?  It goes without saying that if Rosen went to Stanford, he wouldn't be pointing out the inequities of being a student athlete, because at Stanford he'd have it perfect, right?