WBB Recruiting Class of 2025+ - Printable Version

Women's Hoops Recruiting Class of 2025+ - Printable Version

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RE: Class of 2025+ - MV72018 - 04-10-2024

(04-10-2024, 06:24 AM)BobK Wrote: Well keep in mind Ivy leaguers can’t play a 5th year

Do you mean that they can't play a fifth year at their respective Ivy League schools or that they can't do so at any school in the country? If there is a rule prohibiting their playing anywhere, who made that rule and who enforces it?

RE: Class of 2025+ - CompSci87 - 04-10-2024

They can't play a fifth year at their Ivy League school.

RE: Class of 2025+ - kat0189 - 04-10-2024

From the Twitter WCBB rollercoaster:

Allegedly, a major transfer out of UConn to be announced tomorrow
Michelle Smith echoes Bobk's note about grad x-fers having to have already applied to Stanford to have a shot at transferring in, but Smith takes it even further: says the deadline was November!
Stanford said to be pursuing Lucy Olsen a guard who quietly scored 23+ ppg for Villanova. Olsen is coming off her junior season/year at Villanova, thus appears to be transferring as an undergraduate.

RE: Class of 2025+ - BostonCard - 04-11-2024

It never ceases to amaze me how internalized the belief that the university should work in the service of athletics and not vice versa has become. Yeah, it sucks that the timing for graduate transfers doesn't work well with the graduate schools' admissions calendar, but Michele Smith takes it as a given that this is a problem with the admissions deadline and not with the way we commoditize transferring. The main purpose of the graduate schools should be to educate students, not to serve as a conduit to bring in transfer athletes. Michele's post doesn't even fathom this.

BC

RE: Class of 2025+ - Goose - 04-11-2024

(04-11-2024, 11:01 AM)BostonCard Wrote: It never ceases to amaze me how internalized the belief that the university should work in the service of athletics and not vice versa has become. Yeah, it sucks that the timing for graduate transfers doesn't work well with the graduate schools' admissions calendar, but Michele Smith takes it as a given that this is a problem with the admissions deadline and not with the way we commoditize transferring. The main purpose of the graduate schools should be to educate students, not to serve as a conduit to bring in transfer athletes. Michele's post doesn't even fathom this.

BC

+1000

RE: Class of 2025+ - jonnyss - 04-11-2024

(04-11-2024, 11:01 AM)BostonCard Wrote: It never ceases to amaze me how internalized the belief that the university should work in the service of athletics and not vice versa has become. Yeah, it sucks that the timing for graduate transfers doesn't work well with the graduate schools' admissions calendar, but Michele Smith takes it as a given that this is a problem with the admissions deadline and not with the way we commoditize transferring. The main purpose of the graduate schools should be to educate students, not to serve as a conduit to bring in transfer athletes. Michele's post doesn't even fathom this.

BC

true, but...imo deadlines are not imposed for the sake of education - ie students and faculty - but rather for the convenience of administrators, who gradually feel like they own the school.

RE: Class of 2025+ - Goose - 04-11-2024

(04-11-2024, 01:04 PM)jonnyss Wrote: true, but...imo deadlines are not imposed for the sake of education - ie students and faculty - but rather for the convenience of administrators, who gradually feel like they own the school.

I am one of the vocal critics of Stanford's excess of administrators and these administrator's unintended assumption of powers. That said, AFAIK the faculty is the group that controls graduate admissions. If some administrator(s) are making it harder than it needs to be, I strongly suspect the faculty would put them in their place very quickly. The graduate admissions process is a jealously guarded faculty prerogative. They aren't going to be pushed around in that regard. For that reason, the way it is is probably the way the faculty wants it to be.

RE: Class of 2025+ - jonnyss - 04-11-2024

(04-11-2024, 01:33 PM)Goose Wrote:
(04-11-2024, 01:04 PM)jonnyss Wrote: true, but...imo deadlines are not imposed for the sake of education - ie students and faculty - but rather for the convenience of administrators, who gradually feel like they own the school.
I am one of the vocal critics of Stanford's excess of administrators and these administrator's unintended assumption of powers. That said, AFAIK the faculty is the group that controls graduate admissions. If some administrator(s) are making it harder than it needs to be, I strongly suspect the faculty would put them in their place very quickly. The graduate admissions process is a jealously guarded faculty prerogative. They aren't going to be pushed around in that regard. For that reason, the way it is is probably the way the faculty wants it to be.

faculty certainly control the particular students admitted. i believe they defer/delegate to administrators the exact timeline and, in particular, flexibility of deadlines. sure, if it were a big deal, a bunch of faculty could get together and petition the chair or dean.

RE: Class of 2025+ - 82lsju - 04-11-2024

(04-11-2024, 01:43 PM)jonnyss Wrote:
(04-11-2024, 01:33 PM)Goose Wrote:
(04-11-2024, 01:04 PM)jonnyss Wrote: true, but...imo deadlines are not imposed for the sake of education - ie students and faculty - but rather for the convenience of administrators, who gradually feel like they own the school.
I am one of the vocal critics of Stanford's excess of administrators and these administrator's unintended assumption of powers. That said, AFAIK the faculty is the group that controls graduate admissions. If some administrator(s) are making it harder than it needs to be, I strongly suspect the faculty would put them in their place very quickly. The graduate admissions process is a jealously guarded faculty prerogative. They aren't going to be pushed around in that regard. For that reason, the way it is is probably the way the faculty wants it to be.

faculty certainly control the particular students admitted. i believe they defer to administrators on the exact timeline and, in particular, on flexibility of deadlines. maybe i'm wrong...

Quote:Application Deadlines
Application deadlines vary by program and range from November to March for full-time programs.

https://gradadmissions.stanford.edu/apply/dates-and-deadlines

and here you can look up deadlines by program

https://gradadmissions.stanford.edu/explore-programs

a quick scan of the masters programs shows most with Dec or Jan deadlines

two of the latest deadline I saw for 2024-25 were

- Master of Liberal Arts - Apr 26, 2024 (although this appears to be a four to five year part time program so likely not applicable in this discussion)
- Master in Philosophy - Mar 19, 2024

RE: Class of 2025+ - PalmTree - 04-11-2024

(04-11-2024, 01:43 PM)jonnyss Wrote:
(04-11-2024, 01:33 PM)Goose Wrote:
(04-11-2024, 01:04 PM)jonnyss Wrote: true, but...imo deadlines are not imposed for the sake of education - ie students and faculty - but rather for the convenience of administrators, who gradually feel like they own the school.
I am one of the vocal critics of Stanford's excess of administrators and these administrator's unintended assumption of powers. That said, AFAIK the faculty is the group that controls graduate admissions. If some administrator(s) are making it harder than it needs to be, I strongly suspect the faculty would put them in their place very quickly. The graduate admissions process is a jealously guarded faculty prerogative. They aren't going to be pushed around in that regard. For that reason, the way it is is probably the way the faculty wants it to be.

faculty certainly control the particular students admitted. i believe they defer to administrators on the exact timeline and, in particular, on flexibility of deadlines. maybe i'm wrong...

I'm pretty familiar with grad aid funding processes - administrators (and faculty) are dealing with and trying to allocate limited available grad aid funding. Unless there are large new gifts or reinvestments of unused gift/endowment income, central- and local grad aid resources (i.e. school- or departmentally controlled endowments) pretty much just grow by annual cost rise. Allocations/acceptance rates are carefully planned out in 3-5 time horizons. Use of available Stanford grad aid resources may be mitigated by support from external research grants or fellowships, but those resources are not ongoing or predictable. Trust me in saying that most administrators are trying to help faculty maximize bang-for-the buck with the available resources.

Also keep in mind that right now, the highest institutional priority in grad aid planning is costing out and accommodating the financial impacts of grad student unionization.

RE: Class of 2025+ - Goose - 04-11-2024

(04-11-2024, 01:43 PM)jonnyss Wrote:
(04-11-2024, 01:33 PM)Goose Wrote:
(04-11-2024, 01:04 PM)jonnyss Wrote: true, but...imo deadlines are not imposed for the sake of education - ie students and faculty - but rather for the convenience of administrators, who gradually feel like they own the school.
I am one of the vocal critics of Stanford's excess of administrators and these administrator's unintended assumption of powers. That said, AFAIK the faculty is the group that controls graduate admissions. If some administrator(s) are making it harder than it needs to be, I strongly suspect the faculty would put them in their place very quickly. The graduate admissions process is a jealously guarded faculty prerogative. They aren't going to be pushed around in that regard. For that reason, the way it is is probably the way the faculty wants it to be.

faculty certainly control the particular students admitted. i believe they defer/delegate to administrators the exact timeline and, in particular, flexibility of deadlines. sure, if it were a big deal, a bunch of faculty could get together and petition the chair or dean.

I am quite sure the faculty also controls the process of when and how applicants are evaluated. The existing timing is certainly fine with the faculty but possibly not critical and they would accept modifications if asked. I would assume that at least some of the faculty is already aware that the schedule presents problems for some potential applicants. The fact that the system has not changed indicates to me the faculty likes it as is and will resist strongly substantial changes. Realistically, IMO it is hard to imagine a graduate admission process that allows applications to arrive in March. There are lots of potential grad students that have to decide where they are going to be next year well before they actually graduate.

RE: Class of 2025+ - BostonCard - 04-11-2024

Bear in mind that the primary factor in setting the calendar is probably what other graduate schools are doing. For a lot of reasons, it makes sense to have a calendar with broadly similar dates as other programs. Applicants want to do all their applications at around the same time. Recommendation writers (and I say that as someone who went through the process last fall) want to deal with submitting all their recommendations at around the same time and don't want to have to track which recommendation has been submitted to which school for which student. Interviews (if that is part of the process) should broadly happen at around the same time, though with Zoom this is less pressing. And students will want to hear about acceptances and weigh which schools to go to at around the same time, and they definitely want to hear from all schools before they have to commit to any of them. In practice, that means applications happen in the fall, interviews in the winter, and acceptances in the early spring, with a typical commitment deadline in mid-April.

Is there room to compress that a little bit? Sure. But this is not a situation where power hungry bureaucrats are wielding power by pushing arbitrary deadlines.

BC

RE: Class of 2025+ - jonnyss - 04-11-2024

(04-11-2024, 02:07 PM)PalmTree Wrote:
(04-11-2024, 01:43 PM)jonnyss Wrote:
(04-11-2024, 01:33 PM)Goose Wrote:
(04-11-2024, 01:04 PM)jonnyss Wrote: true, but...imo deadlines are not imposed for the sake of education - ie students and faculty - but rather for the convenience of administrators, who gradually feel like they own the school.
I am one of the vocal critics of Stanford's excess of administrators and these administrator's unintended assumption of powers. That said, AFAIK the faculty is the group that controls graduate admissions. If some administrator(s) are making it harder than it needs to be, I strongly suspect the faculty would put them in their place very quickly. The graduate admissions process is a jealously guarded faculty prerogative. They aren't going to be pushed around in that regard. For that reason, the way it is is probably the way the faculty wants it to be.

faculty certainly control the particular students admitted. i believe they defer to administrators on the exact timeline and, in particular, on flexibility of deadlines. maybe i'm wrong...

I'm pretty familiar with grad aid funding processes - administrators (and faculty) are dealing with and trying to allocate limited available grad aid funding. Unless there are large new gifts or reinvestments of unused gift/endowment income, central- and local grad aid resources (i.e. school- or departmentally controlled endowments) pretty much just grow by annual cost rise. Allocations/acceptance rates are carefully planned out in 3-5 time horizons. Use of available Stanford grad aid resources may be mitigated by support from external research grants or fellowships, but those resources are not ongoing or predictable. Trust me in saying that most administrators are trying to help faculty maximize bang-for-the buck with the available resources.

Also keep in mind that right now, the highest institutional priority in grad aid planning is costing out and accommodating the financial impacts of grad student unionization.

does it help that a grad transfer for women's basketball will presumably come with a full scholarship plus likely nil money?

RE: Class of 2025+ - PalmTree - 04-11-2024

(04-11-2024, 05:23 PM)jonnyss Wrote:
(04-11-2024, 02:07 PM)PalmTree Wrote:
(04-11-2024, 01:43 PM)jonnyss Wrote:
(04-11-2024, 01:33 PM)Goose Wrote:
(04-11-2024, 01:04 PM)jonnyss Wrote: true, but...imo deadlines are not imposed for the sake of education - ie students and faculty - but rather for the convenience of administrators, who gradually feel like they own the school.
I am one of the vocal critics of Stanford's excess of administrators and these administrator's unintended assumption of powers. That said, AFAIK the faculty is the group that controls graduate admissions. If some administrator(s) are making it harder than it needs to be, I strongly suspect the faculty would put them in their place very quickly. The graduate admissions process is a jealously guarded faculty prerogative. They aren't going to be pushed around in that regard. For that reason, the way it is is probably the way the faculty wants it to be.

faculty certainly control the particular students admitted. i believe they defer to administrators on the exact timeline and, in particular, on flexibility of deadlines. maybe i'm wrong...

I'm pretty familiar with grad aid funding processes - administrators (and faculty) are dealing with and trying to allocate limited available grad aid funding. Unless there are large new gifts or reinvestments of unused gift/endowment income, central- and local grad aid resources (i.e. school- or departmentally controlled endowments) pretty much just grow by annual cost rise. Allocations/acceptance rates are carefully planned out in 3-5 time horizons. Use of available Stanford grad aid resources may be mitigated by support from external research grants or fellowships, but those resources are not ongoing or predictable. Trust me in saying that most administrators are trying to help faculty maximize bang-for-the buck with the available resources.

Also keep in mind that right now, the highest institutional priority in grad aid planning is costing out and accommodating the financial impacts of grad student unionization.

does it help that a grad transfer for women's basketball will presumably come with a full scholarship plus likely nil money?

Good question. I'd have to guess the scholie $ should help in grad aid package calcs, all things being equal from an academic qualifications perspective. Guessing the NIL $ <should> help as I'm not aware of negative impacts on e.g. federal funding, for any other schools with grad transfer athletes. Guessing most pushback would come from faculty with exceptionally highly qualified (academically) grad applicants getting leap-frogged in admissions by someone with lesser academic qualifications due to athletic considerations.

RE: Class of 2025+ - kat0189 - 04-11-2024

Though I am unfamiliar with all the ins and outs, I think a grad x-fer ought to be allowed to just enroll in post-baccalaureate classes.

Like, what if she wanted to take/finish pre-requisite classes for medical or nursing school?

Perhaps the NCAA needs to adjust their rules and requirements around this more than Stanford, in order for Stanford WBB to share a more even playing field when it comes to the ever-growing importance of the transfer portal.

On a separate note, I wonder if Donovyn Hunter might be a possibility?

She was always on our recruiting list here and had reportedly been offered by Stanford w/ a 4.2 high school GPA. Her strengths could offset a lot the challenges facing the backcourt last 2 years. Very impressive freshman season.

RE: Class of 2025+ - WBB fan - 04-11-2024

(04-04-2024, 07:22 PM)triangle2 Wrote:
(04-04-2024, 05:19 PM)qwerty49 Wrote:
(04-04-2024, 04:56 PM)cardfan77 Wrote: Pass on Van Lith. I want Oelhoffen and ledger Walker. If Beers and/or Gardiner enter the portal then I want them as well

Agree totally.

Beers, Gardiner, Von Oelhoffen, and Ledger-Walker all have that 'good teammate' vibe. We would be privileged to get any of them. And, all of them have been playing in programs with fairly structured systems, particularly the OSU players. I start drooling when I think about Beers setting screens for us.

Van Lith would certainly satisfy the posters who have yearned for a ball dominant shooting guard who would help with the spacing. :-)

Beers has now announced that she's in the portal. That's 7 players from OSU in the portal. Virtually nothing left of their elite 8 team.

RE: Class of 2025+ - PVTree - 04-12-2024

(04-11-2024, 02:06 PM)82lsju Wrote:
(04-11-2024, 01:43 PM)jonnyss Wrote:
(04-11-2024, 01:33 PM)Goose Wrote:
(04-11-2024, 01:04 PM)jonnyss Wrote: true, but...imo deadlines are not imposed for the sake of education - ie students and faculty - but rather for the convenience of administrators, who gradually feel like they own the school.
I am one of the vocal critics of Stanford's excess of administrators and these administrator's unintended assumption of powers. That said, AFAIK the faculty is the group that controls graduate admissions. If some administrator(s) are making it harder than it needs to be, I strongly suspect the faculty would put them in their place very quickly. The graduate admissions process is a jealously guarded faculty prerogative. They aren't going to be pushed around in that regard. For that reason, the way it is is probably the way the faculty wants it to be.

faculty certainly control the particular students admitted. i believe they defer to administrators on the exact timeline and, in particular, on flexibility of deadlines. maybe i'm wrong...

Quote:Application Deadlines
Application deadlines vary by program and range from November to March for full-time programs.

https://gradadmissions.stanford.edu/apply/dates-and-deadlines

and here you can look up deadlines by program

https://gradadmissions.stanford.edu/explore-programs

a quick scan of the masters programs shows most with Dec or Jan deadlines

two of the latest deadline I saw for 2024-25 were

- Master of Liberal Arts - Apr 26, 2024 (although this appears to be a four to five year part time program so likely not applicable in this discussion)
- Master in Philosophy - Mar 19, 2024

Question, can non-athletes who graduate early from high school start classes at Stanford in the spring quarter or do they have to wait until the fall quarter?

If only athletes are able to get this benefit, is it too far fetched that they may also get the benefit of applying to a grad program after the "non-athlete deadline"?

RE: Class of 2025+ - Goose - 04-12-2024

(04-12-2024, 01:00 AM)PVTree Wrote: Question, can non-athletes who graduate early from high school start classes at Stanford in the spring quarter or do they have to wait until the fall quarter?

Recently Stanford has allowed "early matriculation". I do not believe this opportunity is restricted to athletes, but I suspect few, if any, non-athletes are going to take advantage of it. Someone here may know of non-athletes that did so.

Quote:If only athletes are able to get this benefit, is it too far fetched that they may also get the benefit of applying to a grad program after the "non-athlete deadline"?

The two processes are completely different. Undergraduate admissions is a university wide process and is not controlled by the various "schools of" in the university. It is arguably a fairly formulaic and "bureaucratic" process. The administration can bend the rules fairly easily and can argue that the law of large numbers keeps it fair for all concerned. This hides in large measure athletic preferences. At "larger" schools e.g. ASU, they admit so many undergraduate students almost anything they do is justifiable.

Graduate school admissions are controlled by the schools and their faculty directly. The faculty is jealous of their prerogatives and are generally firmly opposed to anybody who wants to interfere in the process. It is highly unlikely they would countenance a process that involved giving athletes any "special" consideration. Even if some faculty members personally wouldn't object, the optics of granting "unequal" opportunities for any CLEARLY non academic purpose would IMO preclude such an action.

As BC has pointed out, grad school admissions are set up at least in part to grant a necessary certainty and predictability to the applicants. Changing the schedule for everybody else to allow athletes to enter the portal and then apply to grad school is obviously impractical. Making exceptions for athletes would publicly and unequivocally demonstrate that some grad school admissions aren't about grad school. I can't see that ever happening. The again, lots of things that used to be "impossible" have happened. I can't imagine this would be such a case however.

RE: Class of 2025+ - 82lsju - 04-12-2024

(04-12-2024, 01:00 AM)PVTree Wrote: Question, can non-athletes who graduate early from high school start classes at Stanford in the spring quarter or do they have to wait until the fall quarter?

If only athletes are able to get this benefit, is it too far fetched that they may also get the benefit of applying to a grad program after the "non-athlete deadline"?

they would have to have applied for early action (notification date in mid-Dec) as the regular admission notification date in early-April is too late to enroll early

RE: Class of 2025+ - WBB fan - 04-13-2024

The coming of the transfer portal affects the significance of recruiting -- just because Stanford or others succeeds in signing a great recruit, that no long means that we can look forward to having that player for 4 years. Maybe yes, maybe no. Stanford has lost players to the porta1 in each of the last 3 years. And if we were to succeed in getting a player from the portal, that player would be on the team for less than a full four years. All of this makes me much less excited about recruiting. I wonder how the coaches feel about it? Frustrated, worried, feeling, if we get someone as a freshman, can we keep her? Recruiting is no longer simply a matter of luring high school players. It's a multi-year effort -- persuading them players to come in the first place, then persuading them to stay, at the same time that you have to be looking at people already in college and luring them to come, if you can get them admitted. More effort needed for the coaches, potential tension among players and between them and coaches -- and harder to build a real feeling of committed teammates. NONE of this is good.