WBB: the NCAA tournament - Printable Version

WBB: the NCAA tournament - Printable Version

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RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - OCcardinal - 03-26-2023

(03-25-2023, 04:47 PM)chimera Wrote: OSU is a very good team but let's not get carried away. They've been hot lately. I know 40 is an exaggeration (or I sure hope it was intended that way). Just because UConn had 20-odd turnovers doesn't mean if we played them we have 40.

Agreed. And you have to remember this year's UConn team is a shell of the one that beat us in the Final Four last season. That team had four top 2 recruits. Fudd is still around but gone are injured #1 recruit (and freshman natl player of the year) Paige Brueckers, now graduated #1 recruit Chrystyn Williams and now graduated #2 overall recruit Evina Westbrook. The last time Geno had fewer than 3 active top two recruits on his roster for the tournament was 2016-17, a year they got knocked out by a 7 seed. (They did make the Final Four that season, but the highest-seeded team they had to beat to get there was a 10 seed). Lou Lopez Senechal was a nice pickup and did will in Geno's offense, but she is not UConn elite (plus she got hurt in the 2nd quarter yesterday and was out for a bit). Aaliyah Edwards (a #23 overall recruit) had a terrific season but showed in UConn's losses that she was not enough to carry the team. It also didn't help that she got in foul trouble yesterday and played only 17 minutes. UConn was questionable vs a decent team like Ohio State to begin with and Senechal and Edwards being limited was a killer. Geno doesn't have the bench this year (and not just because of injuries -- it's recruiting).

Compare that to the new kid on the block - South Carolina. They have five top 5 recruits on their roster (Raven Johnson, Ailiya Boston, Zia Cooke, Sania Feagin and Kamilla Cardoso). Behind that they have 5 more players who were ranked between #10 and #18 (Laeticia Amihere, Brea Beal, Ashlyn Watkins, Bree Hall and Talaysia Cooper). That's 10 players that have recruiting rankings higher than UConn's leading scorer (Edwards). There is a reason why South Carolina is head and shoulders above everyone else. They are more UConn than UConn now.

In any event, I'm thrilled that UConn lost. With Stanford losing early in both the Pac 12 and NCAA tournament, Geno had a chance to pick up a lot of ground on Tara for winningest college coach. Tara started 8 games ahead. Thankfully she dropped only 2. So a 6 game lead, assuming Geno gets credit for the 2 games he didn't actually coach this season (but that seems to be the case: NCAA Head Coach Stats). If UConn had won the championship it would have been down to 3. I feel a lot more comfortable she can hang onto the lead at least one more season with a 6 game lead.

RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - PVTree - 03-26-2023

Completely absurd that Stanford would have 40 turnovers vs. any team. That would be 1 turnover per minute. I also hope this is an exaggeration by frustrated fans venting after a disappointing end to the season.

I think that if we played South Carolina 10 times, we would win at least 3 of them. From there, we would win more times if we played any other team 10 times.

I was at Maples to watch the Mississippi game. We should have won. We play them 9 more times, and we win at least 7 of those games. That night, they happen to play well enough to beat us, and we shot ourselves in the foot with all the things we have mentioned for the last week.

The sky looks dark at the moment, but it will clear up, and the sun will shine again for our WBB team.

RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - WBB fan - 03-26-2023

(03-25-2023, 11:34 PM)Baez87 Wrote:
(03-25-2023, 08:40 PM)Jskass Wrote: Still in Seattle and have to admit was pleased to see UConn lose, though that meant cheering for the OSU. Pleasant surprise is VaTech. Team gels really well. Nice people too - staying at their hotel and just conversed w various parents. Amoore PG was stupendous and Kitley no slouch! And unfazed by TN when they got aggressive and crossed the line (find the video of their player 4 punching VT number 13 - refs asleep).

Here is the video - makes me wish Missy had been there to go to the monitor as this is ejection worthy:
https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/35949945
Thanks for sharing this clip. I’m not sure that this egregious infraction of basketball rules and of human decency is punishable now that the game is over and the team of the offending party is probably on its way home, but this needs to be dealt with in some manner. I’ve never seem someone mugged quite like lhis in a basketball game. Walker, #4, needs to stand accountable for this act, even to the extent of someone pressing charges against her. Just horrible!

"Egregious infraction of basketball rules and human decency" is well put. To me, this goes way beyond a basketball infraction. The Tennessee player could have been seriously hurt. This was a case of assault. Simply and totally unacceptable. Game being over isn't relevant to whether charges could be brought, but that's up to law enforcement. Unlikely that anything will happen there. But at the very least, coach Harper should show this clip to her players and make it clear that this is NOT acceptable, by anyone at any time. Unfortunately, #4, Jordan Walker, is a grad transfer, so there are probably no penalties re the team that Harper could impose for next season.

RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - Goose - 03-26-2023

IMO the idea that NCAA women's basketball could even vaguely resemble the NHL is an indictment of the whole system. It can't be a fight where a basketball game broke out. The coaches must establish discipline and make it abundantly obvious that if you intentionally strike another player with your fist, you are gone from the team, plain and simple. The refs not seeing it (or ignoring it if they do) also has to change, even if it requires stopping the game and looking at a replay. I would like to say the coaches should not recruit players that would do such a thing, but it is probably impossible to know (in general) from the start which ones lack the self control required.

There is a tendency towards rougher "physical" play in the NCAA that many on this site don't like. I think that is indeed a problem and the rules need to actually be enforced. The fact the NBA doesn't do so isn't relevant to the college game. This is a related but still distinct issue. Physical play is often against the rules but not called. Punching somebody is assault and has nothing to do with basketball. That has to be made clear and it has to come from the coaches themselves. If it doesn't, this problem will just get worse. Even two shots and ejection won't do it.

RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - BostonCard - 03-26-2023

[tweet]https://twitter.com/IowaWBB/status/1639437335208267776?s=20[/tweet]

Maybe this is the answer to getting Jump unguarded... just have her shoot Clark distance threes.

BC

RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - OCcardinal - 03-26-2023

(03-26-2023, 12:28 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Maybe this is the answer to getting Jump unguarded... just have her shoot Clark distance threes.

BC

Jump actually shot better from distance vs Colorado this season than Clark. Clark was 4 of 9 on 3s on Friday. Jump was 4 of 6 on 3s at Colorado and 5 of 10 vs Colorado at home. And Jump's eFG% was better too. Clark's eFG% was 59.1% on Friday. Jump's was 77.8% at Colorado and 63.3% vs Colorado at home.

Another interesting stat: Haley Jones' career FG% is higher than Caitlin Clark's (though, of course, Clark takes a lot more shots). Jones was 614 of 1309 (46.9%) for her career. Clark is 855 of 1840 (46.5%) to date.

RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - 81alum - 03-26-2023

LSU vs Miami was 9-8 nearly at the end of the 1st quarter when I turned it off. I don't really care about who wins, and there was no reason at all to watch this travesty for the pleasure of seeing beautiful basketball.

I haven't watched a lot of men's basketball since the Montgomery/Johnson era. Has MBB become a constant defensive slugfest?

When I was watching both MBB and WBB I preferred WBB because it seemed like more of a team sport, and it involved more assists, passing, and teamwork to get players open. The very fact that women were not as fast or strong as men was a major advantage in my book, since it made the game more of a team sport and there were fewer individuals who could "take over" the game on their own.

But more and more I see defensive battles, pushing and shoving in the paint, low low scores (9 to 8 sheesh!) and I wonder if the game is worth watching.

How about some rules changes to make the game more offensive? Trapezoidal key, 3 seconds in the paint for defense too, etc.? Because under the current rules I just turned off 3/4 of an elite 8 game as unwatchable, unfun, uninteresting.

But maybe there are some of you who love to watch basketball defenses and revel in games in which neither team gets to 60?

RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - lsmant - 03-26-2023

(03-26-2023, 04:39 PM)81alum Wrote: LSU vs Miami was 9-8 nearly at the end of the 1st quarter when I turned it off. I don't really care about who wins, and there was no reason at all to watch this travesty for the pleasure of seeing beautiful basketball.

I haven't watched a lot of men's basketball since the Montgomery/Johnson era. Has MBB become a constant defensive slugfest?

When I was watching both MBB and WBB I preferred WBB because it seemed like more of a team sport, and it involved more assists, passing, and teamwork to get players open. The very fact that women were not as fast or strong as men was a major advantage in my book, since it made the game more of a team sport and there were fewer individuals who could "take over" the game on their own.

But more and more I see defensive battles, pushing and shoving in the paint, low low scores (9 to 8 sheesh!) and I wonder if the game is worth watching.

How about some rules changes to make the game more offensive? Trapezoidal key, 3 seconds in the paint for defense too, etc.? Because under the current rules I just turned off 3/4 of an elite 8 game as unwatchable, unfun, uninteresting.

But maybe there are some of you who love to watch basketball defenses and revel in games in which neither team gets to 60?

I agree with everything you are saying. No exceptions. More than 20 years ago my dad asked me why I liked watching basketball. The dance, I replied. And he understood exactly what I meant. The dance is gone. It’s a race, a slugfest. If I wanted to watch games for that…well, I don’t. And I mourn the loss of the dance where skill and respect and following the rules wins games. My dad and mom would be sad as well. My husband agrees with you, too. Not to mention missing watching as freshmen come in and following them for 4 years. But that’s another subject.

RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - CompSci87 - 03-26-2023

I still have the game on, but I'm sick and don't have much else I feel up to doing.

Both teams seem offensively challenged, having trouble scoring in the half court. Most points scored are in transition.

RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - OutsiderFan - 03-26-2023

This Miami-LSU game is so comically bad it's entertaining.

The teams have combined to go 0-21 from 3pt range through 3 quarters.

Miami is outshooting LSU 30% to 28%.

Miami has 27 points.

Kim Mulkey just said "If I was watching this game, I'd turn it off!" LOL!

RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - WBB fan - 03-26-2023

Not a good game for people new to WBB to watch! And even Mulkey seems to feel the same way. In the interview between the 3rd and 4th quarter, she said something along of the line of "look at that score [LSU 38-27 at end of the 3rd]. If I were watching, I'd turn it off. Let's get some offense." Wow!

RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - 81alum - 03-26-2023

(03-26-2023, 05:45 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Kim Mulkey just said "If I was watching this game, I'd turn it off!" LOL!

One of the first times I have ever agreed with Kim Mulkey about anything. But I took her advice a couple of quarters before she gave it.

RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - joemontes - 03-26-2023

Don't look now, but LSU is in the Final Four in Mulkey's 2nd year of coaching there.

Then, they parade a Top 3 recruiting class next season, including

#2 Mikayla WILLIAMS, 6'1 SG/SF who was ESPN #1 until Sept last year
before Juju WATKINS finally settled at the top spot, and

#7 Aaliyah DEL ROSARIO, 6'6 center

so they could be prohibitive co-favorites along with UConn for the National Title
next season

RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - WBB fan - 03-26-2023

Iowa / Louisville is a lot more entertaining that the LSU / Miami bore. End of 1st qtr is Iowa leading 25-21. Clark is awesome, 15 points in 1st quarter on 5-8 shooting including 3 threes, plus assists on every fg by another Iowa player.

RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - Jskass - 03-26-2023

Watching Louisville vs. Iowa in person and Caitlin Clark IS fun to watch - just casually hit a shot which appeared closer to half court than the 3 point line. HVL came out on fire - lots of family and friends here as she is from WA State.

RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - BostonCard - 03-26-2023

It’s halftime and both teams have no out scores Miami’s full game score. 48-43 in Iowa’s favor. Clark has 22 points and 8 assists. van Lith has 17 points

BC

RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - joemontes - 03-26-2023

(03-26-2023, 07:16 PM)BostonCard Wrote: It’s halftime and both teams have no out scores Miami’s full game score. 48-43 in Iowa’s favor. Clark has 22 points and 8 assists. van Lith has 17 points

BC

Very guard-oriented offense for both teams, that's why it's entertaining.
Plus the top player in the nation (CLARK) and one of the premiere guards
(VAN LITH) in college basketball

RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - standfan - 03-26-2023

Clark is lighting it up. She has 25 points and nine assist. It seems like there are a whole lot more Iowa fans than Louisville fans here.

Clark is lighting it up. She has 25 points and nine assist. It seems like there are a whole lot more Iowa fans than Louisville fans here.

Iowa has hit 13 of 28 three-point attempts with 4 the starters having at least one made three pointers.

RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - BosCard - 03-26-2023

(03-26-2023, 07:32 PM)standfan Wrote: Clark is lighting it up. She has 25 points and nine assist. It seems like there are a whole lot more Iowa fans than Louisville fans here.

Clark is lighting it up. She has 25 points and nine assist. It seems like there are a whole lot more Iowa fans than Louisville fans here.

Iowa has hit 13 of 28 three-point attempts with 4 the starters having at least one made three pointers.

This tournament is a good reminder that you really need great guards who can score off the dribble to have a deep run and challenge for the national championship. Our ball handling guards this year (and I'm not including Jones who really played the 3/4 most of the year) were all playing their first year of college basketball:

Harriel (ESPN #78) - Not much playing time and mostly a passer and 3-point shooter
Green (Walk-on) - End of bench
Lepolo (ESPN #71) - Very good handle but needs to work on her ability to score off the dribble
Nivar (ESPN #20) - Athletic, good body control. Lots of potential but we need her to become a consistent scorer next year

Hopefully, Lepolo and Nivar continue to develop as scorers. Hopefully Ogden has a good handle and can score with the ball in her hands. Hopefully Clardy can score as well. Hopefully we get a grad transfer. And the thing we need to keep reminding ourselves as fans is that Stanford is at a giant disadvantage when it comes to undergrad transfers. Lots of elite guards transfer to other schools to play with other great players. I am sure some of them would love to play with Cameron Brink. But the chances of an undergrad transfer to Stanford is probably in the area of 0.1%. I hope I'm proven wrong but we will have to live with the roller coaster ride of trying to recruit elite guards from high school and hopefully we get some of them in the class of 2024.

RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - BostonCard - 03-26-2023

Clark had a triple double with 41 pts, 10 rebounds and 10 assists (but also 9 turnovers). She shot 11/19 overall, 8/14 from three point range, and 11/13 from the line. It will go down as a tournament performance for the ages. By way of comparison, Miami scored just one more point as a team in the earlier game tonight.

I would have loved to see what we could do against her had we not fallen earlier in the tournament, but I have a feeling that the answer was probably "not enough".

BC