Outside Topic The Giants - Printable Version

Outside Topic The Giants - Printable Version

+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Outside Topic The Giants (/thread-17809.html)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22

lex24 - lex24 - 07-21-2019

Did you watch the prior seven? Crawford had a nice week in one game. Team hit a lot of balls hard. They’ve hit well since about Mid June.

The Giants were a tired team this weekend. Four games in three days at Coors will do that to you. Ask the Dodgers. They have a .587 winning pct since 2013. Theirvwinning percentage since then in the series right after they leave a Coors - .407. Rest of the NL West. .466.

And not a whole lot of folks hit balls hard off Thor and deGrom.

How talented did you think Turner, Taylor and Muncy were when you read the little line in the transactions section that the Dodgers picked them up.

The Giants aren’t planning to build around Yaz and Dickerson. They are hoping they can continue to be solid contributors- adding significantly to the lineup.

(07-21-2019, 06:51 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I watched most of the 4-game series against the Mets. I think the whole series Giants players being payed $10M+ hit maybe 4 balls hard. Crawford hit 2, Posey hit one today into triples alley that went for a ground rule double (that ground rule should be ground rule triple if it bounces over 421 sign), and I think Belt hit one. That was it.

The Mets have better talent but the Giants still managed to win 3/4, barely. Slater has come way back down to Earth. Yaz and Dick might be decent players, but they aren’t who you build your team around. Zach Green might be interesting. His double today impressed me as he really turned on 94 with violence. Perhaps he could be a right hand platoon option with Panda at 3B.

But people are kidding themselves thinking this Giants team is worth preserving. They just aren’t very talented.

RE: The Giants - Phogge - 07-22-2019

Disagree about Dickerson. Pure stroke. But he has been injured a lot which has hampered his development. Would be interesting to know which scout alerted Farhan. Yaz can run and has good range. A solid contributor. Solano has to play a lot. Not sold on Slater but love Pillar. Who closes if they trade Smith? Maybe Bobbbbb will get his boy Strickland back. LOL.

RE: The Giants - Mick - 07-22-2019

(07-22-2019, 12:20 AM)Phogge Wrote: Disagree about Dickerson. Pure stroke. But he has been injured a lot which has hampered his development. Would be interesting to know which scout alerted Farhan. Yaz can run and has good range. A solid contributor. Solano has to play a lot. Not sold on Slater but love Pillar. Who closes if they trade Smith? Maybe Bobbbbb will get his boy Strickland back. LOL.

I think/hope Farhan is holding out for an A-list player for Smith. Would prefer to keep Bumgarner, but I undertsand the vicissitudes.

I think Yaz could be more. He has 9 home runs in 162 at bats. Belt has 11 HRs in 321 at bats. Team leader Longoria has 13 HRs in 278 ABs.

RE: The Giants - Mick - 07-22-2019

(07-22-2019, 12:20 AM)Phogge Wrote: Disagree about Dickerson. Pure stroke. But he has been injured a lot which has hampered his development. Would be interesting to know which scout alerted Farhan. Yaz can run and has good range. A solid contributor. Solano has to play a lot. Not sold on Slater but love Pillar. Who closes if they trade Smith? Maybe Bobbbbb will get his boy Strickland back. LOL.

RE: The Giants - OutsiderFan - 07-22-2019

I've grown quite tired of the Dodgers finding guys off the trash heap nobody wanted and then turning them into All Stars. Justin Turner, Max Muncy, and Rich Hill all were nothing players until they got to the Fodgers. That's why I told a buddy a couple weeks ago that Zaidi is turning the Giants into the Dodgers with all these guys nobody wanted starting to perform for the Giants.

Reading all the fan comments online, it's pretty clear Giants fans have convinced themselves Farhan Zaidi has some sort of baseball personnel move Midas touch, and that he's developing a cult of personality following without doing much talking, as evidenced by the fact everyone calls him Farhan. The fans are starting to get expectations about another post-season run, probably based on the fact the Giants have won coming from nowhere before. There is not a lot of objective thinking going on within the fan base right now as a result, but I don't know if paid professionals know any better.

There are several dynamics at work on the team right now that make evaluating it properly very difficult:

- The turnover of the roster from first half to second; basically two different teams
- Bumgarner eschewing trade talk, turning into MadBum and making the team believe it can win, by example
- The bullpen that masks a lot of offensive warts; 9-2 in extra inning games, 22-10 in 1-run games = best in MLB
- Bochy's final year and guys wanting to win for him
- Bochy managing the team and melding the personalities
- All the energy from guys getting their first Big League chances when they thought they might never get them
- The win streak that has to give the team more confidence to play better down stretch
- The rest of the National League outside of the Dodgers and Braves not being all that much better now, if at all

RE: The Giants - BobK - 07-22-2019

I have moved on from Strickland. Yes I thought he was Beck Nen second to one

Dickerson is a player. So is Yaz. So is Pillar.

Give Green a chance.

Get rid of Belt. PLEASE. Eat the contract send him away.

Call me thrilled about our Giants.

Great thoughts on the Dodgers.

lex24 - lex24 - 07-22-2019

Farhan is obviously a bright talented guy. What is also obvious is he’s not afraid to make a boatload of moves. He just kept bringing guys in until he got some guys that could perform. As you note and I’ve said, the hardest part about evaluating this.500 team is that the current team (with its new outfield, Anderson and Beede) is way over 500. Something like 29-16 which is .644.

3 with the Cubs. They are playing well. Then they go to SD and Philly. The deadline is at 1PM PDT. So they have 7 more to that point.

If he deals Bum, my guess is it will be a last minute deal. Unless the Cubs sweep.

It’s like playoff baseball in a way.

(07-22-2019, 06:15 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I've grown quite tired of the Dodgers finding guys off the trash heap nobody wanted and then turning them into All Stars. Justin Turner, Max Muncy, and Rich Hill all were nothing players until they got to the Fodgers. That's why I told a buddy a couple weeks ago that Zaidi is turning the Giants into the Dodgers with all these guys nobody wanted starting to perform for the Giants.

Reading all the fan comments online, it's pretty clear Giants fans have convinced themselves Farhan Zaidi has some sort of baseball personnel move Midas touch, and that he's developing a cult of personality following without doing much talking, as evidenced by the fact everyone calls him Farhan. The fans are starting to get expectations about another post-season run, probably based on the fact the Giants have won coming from nowhere before. There is not a lot of objective thinking going on within the fan base right now as a result, but I don't know if paid professionals know any better.

There are several dynamics at work on the team right now that make evaluating it properly very difficult:

- The turnover of the roster from first half to second; basically two different teams
- Bumgarner eschewing trade talk, turning into MadBum and making the team believe it can win, by example
- The bullpen that masks a lot of offensive warts; 9-2 in extra inning games, 22-10 in 1-run games = best in MLB
- Bochy's final year and guys wanting to win for him
- Bochy managing the team and melding the personalities
- All the energy from guys getting their first Big League chances when they thought they might never get them
- The win streak that has to give the team more confidence to play better down stretch
- The rest of the National League outside of the Dodgers and Braves not being all that much better now, if at all

I’m convinced the Dodgers have a good team pharmacist. Just another bitter Giants fan.

(07-22-2019, 07:29 AM)BobK Wrote: I have moved on from Strickland. Yes I thought he was Beck Nen rilled o to one

Dickerson is a player. So is Yaz. So is Pillar.

Give Green a chance.

Get rid of Belt. PLEASE. Eat the contract send him away.

Call me thrilled about our Giants.

Great thoughts on the Dodgers.

Bobk I don’t share your distain for belt. I think he’s a useful player. Unfortunately he has been the left-handed power on this team – which really is not what is most suited for. What he is best suited for is being a complementary player in the lineup where he can use his best offensive skill - high on base percentage as more of a benefit. Belt is the poster child for the metrics debate. Or what used to be the Debate. The mathematicians have won. The problem with baseball by math is it’s always an “all things being equal” equation. And as you well know, all things are never equal in baseball. So while belt could be tremendously valuable on a team with a good lineup in which he could be a complementary player, he is less valuable ( and incredibly frustrating) when he is the main left-handed power (and with Posey no longer hitting much, probably the biggest threat) on the team and yet seems so willing to draw walks in key situations- thus leaving the decision to someone else. And of course, he takes more called thirds in those situations then he should. I’ve had that argument with people. They say - but he’s usually right. It’s usually a bad call. That’s another change in baseball these days. Only one person is right and that’s the guy that gets to make the call. Which of course is why the rule in baseball for ever (until recently) has been on a close pitch with 2 strikes you swing. Particularly in a run scoring situation. I mean I can understand taking a close pitch 3-2 leading off an inning. Not so much with runners on second and third two outs. Which of course comes back to my point of all things are never equal in baseball. Which is why I take all the metrics with a grain of salt

I’ve always wanted to see him more aggressive particularly later in the count in run scoring opportunity at bats. I’ve wanted him to have the attitude that he’s the guy, But he’s always stuck to his game plan. Which works from an on base percentage standpoint. Not so well on this team. Cause it’s not like he’s had big hitters behind him. Also belt gets hurt the most by Oracle. Look at his home-road career power splints. They are brobdingnagian.

RE: The Giants - Phogge - 07-22-2019

Ted Williams had a plan too. Brandon Belt is not Ted Williams. He’s closer to Ted Nugent. And Nugent wants his shirt back.

RE: The Giants - BobK - 07-22-2019

Runs are at full part of baseball and Belt doesn't score. Yes he walks with 2 out amNd runners on base big deal.
He a great job of striking out. I will give him that

RE: The Giants - triangle2 - 07-22-2019

(07-22-2019, 09:14 AM)Phogge Wrote: Ted Williams had a plan too. Brandon Belt is not Ted Williams. He’s closer to Ted Nugent. And Nugent wants his shirt back.

Belt reminds me of a poor man's Darrell Evans: lower quality hitter but similar OBP and OPS. Belt doesn't have Evans' HR power but has part of Evans' strike zone selectivity (lots of BB's). But Evans didn't strikeout much and Belt K's a lot. Evans played pretty good D at third until he moved to 1B during his late career power surge in the other league. Belt's defense looks good but the metrics are less favorable than I had thought.

I remember having similar frustration watching Evans repeatedly walk with runners on. But unlike Belt, Evans' approach seemed to be "if you pitch it where I want it, I'll try to hit it out, but if you don't, I'll happily walk." At times, this resulted in him hitting second, but for a larger part of his SF career, he hit lower in the order, 6th or 7th. Basically a dead pull, fly ball hitter who simply fouled off or ignored pitches on the outside of the plate. It's hard for me to understand Belt's hitting approach other than it seems passive. Always hoped he'd become a 20/80 guy.

RE: The Giants - OutsiderFan - 07-22-2019

I have a friend who hates Belt as much as Bob. So I looked up Belt's stats today. He's got a .363 OB%, which is pretty good. On the flip side, his WAR is 1, but more interestingly it's only .6 on O and actually -.9 on D. So effectively, you can replace Belt with just about anyone and not lose anything. Now I throw out a theory.

One reason they brought Zach Green up was to get a quick look at him before the trade deadline. With Longoria out for a few weeks, they can platoon Panda and Green at 3rd. But, they might also be able to trade Belt to say Texas, put Green at 3B or 1B, and when Longoria comes back, have Green play 1B, with Panda as a 3B and 1B option depending on match-ups.

RE: The Giants - Phogge - 07-22-2019

(07-22-2019, 11:09 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I have a friend who hates Belt as much as Bob. So I looked up Belt's stats today. He's got a .363 OB%, which is pretty good. On the flip side, his WAR is 1, but more interestingly it's only .6 on O and actually -.9 on D. So effectively, you can replace Belt with just about anyone and not lose anything. Now I throw out a theory.

One reason they brought Zach Green up was to get a quick look at him before the trade deadline. With Longoria out for a few weeks, they can platoon Panda and Green at 3rd. But, they might also be able to trade Belt to say Texas, put Green at 3B or 1B, and when Longoria comes back, have Green play 1B, with Panda as a 3B and 1B option depending on match-ups.

Love it OF. Posey can play a bit of first and they can sign another catcher in the offseason. There are plenty of platoon possibilities with Vogt, Green, Chris Shaw and Longoria. Aramis Garcia is an athlete, include him in the first base situation. The Giants would benefit greatly from a 26 man roster which is on the table with the PA. If they have to eat some of Belt's contract who cares besides the financial guys sitting in their offices above King Street.

And remember anyone with BobbbbbbbbbbbbK as an enemy is in various serious trouble.

RE: The Giants - BobK - 07-22-2019

Baer and the new head will be on my enemies list if Belt still here Aug 1.

Outsider has the plan. As does Phogge. Just get it done Giants

8 games before the deadline.

RE: lex24 - terry - 07-22-2019

(07-22-2019, 07:40 AM)lex24 Wrote: 3 with the Cubs. They are playing well.

The Cubs have been one of the worst road teams in the National League. Just 18-27.

RE: The Giants - BobK - 07-22-2019

Well here’s news

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/giants/mlb-rumors-madison-bumgarner-could-reject-trade-stay-giants

Bum has a no trade contract except for 8 teams

RE: The Giants - Mick - 07-22-2019

Cubs score in the top of the eighth to take a two run lead. Things look bleak.

Sandoval doubles. Crawford singles. Slater doubles with two outs. Panik doubles with two outs. And just like that, it's 5-4.

Dyson pitches the ninth for the 5-4 win over the NL-Central-leading Cubs.

Panik three hits, Crawford two hits, Yaz two hits, Solano 1 for 1 as PH. Every starter gets at least 1 hit, 13 overall. Four Giants pitchers give up six hits and three walks and struck out ten.

And the Giants are 51-50 and two games back of the wild card. And suddenly Farhan isn't so quick to return calls and emails from other GMs.

RE: The Giants - qwerty49 - 07-22-2019

(07-22-2019, 12:43 PM)BobK Wrote: Baer and the new head will be on my enemies list if Belt still here Aug 1.

Outsider has the plan. As does Phogge. Just get it done Giants

8 games before the deadline.

Belt has one great skill: taking pitches, be they balls or strikes. Unfortunately there’s no shortage of people who could stand up there and do that.

lex24 - lex24 - 07-22-2019

“WAR. Wumph. What is if good for. Absolutely nothing.”

(07-22-2019, 11:09 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I have a friend who hates Belt as much as Bob. So I looked up Belt's stats today. He's got a .363 OB%, which is pretty good. On the flip side, his WAR is 1, but more interestingly it's only .6 on O and actually -.9 on D. So effectively, you can replace Belt with just about anyone and not lose anything. Now I throw out a theory.

One reason they brought Zach Green up was to get a quick look at him before the trade deadline. With Longoria out for a few weeks, they can platoon Panda and Green at 3rd. But, they might also be able to trade Belt to say Texas, put Green at 3B or 1B, and when Longoria comes back, have Green play 1B, with Panda as a 3B and 1B option depending on match-ups.

He also has decent power and a good glove. I know hes frustrating as hell. And he’s nowhere near as good as the metric people have made him out to be. But he’s not the bum us old folks think he is either. He’s been a pretty solid player for the Giants.

(07-22-2019, 10:27 PM)qwerty49 Wrote:
(07-22-2019, 12:43 PM)BobK Wrote: Baer and the new head will be on my enemies list if Belt still here Aug 1.

Outsider has the plan. As does Phogge. Just get it done Giants

8 games before the deadline.

Belt has one great skill: taking pitches, be they balls or strikes. Unfortunately there’s no shortage of people who could stand up there and do that.

Other way around - his contract provides that he may list 8 teams to which he may refuse a trade. I don’t have the list. But he listed 8 contenders. I do know that the Braves ARE on the list. He did it to allow some control over the process. Plus I think there may be a financial angle.

BTW, when assessing his value consider this: He has pitched in three elimination games – two wildcard games and his relief appearance in game seven of the 2014 World Series. His numbers: 23 IP. 10 Hits. 0 runs. 4 walks. 20 K’s. 2 CG shutouts and a 5 inning save. He also pitched a quasi elimination game in ‘14 Series. Game 5 at home, series tied 2-2 and games 6-7 in KC. That game he pitched another shutout. 4 hits. No walks. 8 strikeouts.

You throw all the metric crap out the window when you consider his worth to a contender. At this point, I don’t pull the trigger on a deal unless I get at least one top major league ready prospect. And I mean top prospect, not some guy who is the third or fourth guy on some teams list.

If they keep him I think they have a good chance of re-signing him. I see him as someone who wants to finish his career on the giants along with Posey Plus I think he gives a hometown discount. He does not seem to be a money driven guy. You don’t need a whole lot of bsucks to live happily ever after out on the ranch in North Carolina.

In any event, I’ll be there when they unveil his statue at Willie Mays Park.

(07-22-2019, 02:03 PM)BobK Wrote: Well here’s news

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/giants/mlb-rumors-madison-bumgarner-could-reject-trade-stay-giants

Bum has a no trade contract except for 8 teams

RE: The Giants - OutsiderFan - 07-23-2019

When Panda GIDP in the 5th I figured I'd wake up and see a final score of Cubs 5 Giants 3. The lack of XBH in their home park plagues this team in a way that makes no sense. People talk about needing to move the fences in. Well, opposing teams don't have trouble hitting the ball hard and far in that stadium.

So I get up, and see Giants 5 Cubs 4, after the Gigantes scored 3 in the 8th. Looks like they crammed all their XBHs into one inning.

That's FOUR 1-run wins on this home stand in the last 5 games. I don't know how this is sustainable. My fear is these guys are playing as far over their heads as they can (and it's just good enough to eke out wins) to stave off a trade deadline sell-off, then on Aug. 1, reality sets in, and they start sinking into oblivion.

This team's margin for error is ridiculously thin. The only places it can realistically be improved are 2B and 1B, and of course, Panik goes 3-4 and drives in the winning run just when you think it's time to DFA him. At the same time, the bullpen is the best in the NL, so maybe with just a mediocre lineup (as opposed to trash), they are better than most NL teams now?

The 2019 Giants are now a Rorschach Test.

RE: The Giants - cardcrimson - 07-23-2019

One game above 500. Four teams ahead in the wild card race, tied with another. One game playoff if you beat out all but one of them. If you win, most likely on the road, the Dodgers await.

I'd be selling right now. Good negotiating position right now, if you want us to sell, you better give us a great offer. Get some great prospects while you can for Bum, Smith, Belt, Dyson and anyone else and build for the future. It may be as close as next year.

Maybe get lucky and resign Bum in the off season, as well.