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RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - BobK - 09-21-2023
I only go back to 1952. Only stats before 52. But 52 -57 non SF
Sal Maglie
Bobby Thompson
Monte Irvin
Hoyt Wilhelm
Alvin Dark
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - cardcrimson - 09-21-2023
(09-21-2023, 01:41 PM)Giants Wrote:BobK dateline='[url=tel:1695323228' Wrote: 1695323228[/url]']
Thanks about Crawford
Well Crawford, Mays and Barry Bonds
Oh yeah, I forgot about Bonds. That completes the OF (left to right - Bonds, Mays, Ott).
1B - Bill Terry
2B - ?
SS - Brandon Crawford
3B - ?
C - ?
RHP - Christy Mathewson
LHP - Carl Hubbell
More research needed to complete the team….
Joe Morgan at 2nd?
Freddie Lindstrom at 3rd?
Posey?
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 09-21-2023
(09-21-2023, 01:41 PM)Giants Wrote:BobK dateline='[url=tel:1695323228' Wrote: 1695323228[/url]']
Thanks about Crawford
Well Crawford, Mays and Barry Bonds
Oh yeah, I forgot about Bonds. That completes the OF (left to right - Bonds, Mays, Ott).
1B - Bill Terry
2B - ?
SS - Brandon Crawford
3B - ?
C - ?
RHP - Christy Mathewson
LHP - Carl Hubbell
More research needed to complete the team….
Good call on the pitchers and outfielders. At 1B, I'd probably take McCovey over Bill Terry (but it's close). And it would have been interesting to see how well Johnny Mize would have done had he not lost three years to WWII at the peak of his career.
Tough call between HoFer Buck Ewing and Buster Posey, but I'd go with Posey (despite Ewing's 354 stolen bases), with HoFer Roger Bresnahan a close third.
At 2B, it depends on your service length requirements. Best second baseman was probably Rogers Hornsby, who only played for the Giants for a year. Otherwise, the best second baseman not in the Hall of Fame, Jeff Kent.
I'd take Frank "Home Run" Baker by a smidge over Freddie Lindstrom at 3B (both HoFers).
And I'll take John J. McGraw at manager, much as I liked Bochy, Durocher and Roger Craig.
I've often wondered how much the Giants missed their batting coach, Donnie Ecker, who left after the 2021 season to be the batting coach and bench coach for the Texas Rangers. In response, SF Giant team OPS dropped from .749 in 2021 to .705 both last year and this year (so far).
Now the Giants lose their Director of Pitching, Brian Bannister who has joined the White Sox. Bannister worked remotely during the 2022 COVID season because he wouldn't get vaccinated, which was against MLB rules. Giant team ERA was 3.85 that year, jumping from 3.24 in 2021. It's 4.07 this year. During Bannister's term, Giant ERA was 3.80 overall (sixth best in MLB), and FIP was lowest in MLB at 3.72, and the lowest HR/9 innings and third lowest BB/9. He's a big loss.
Giants also lost pitching Ethan Katz to the White Sox in 2020.
Incidentally, Bannister's hiring wasn't the move of ex-Stanford player, Ken Williams, who has now become the ex-President/GM of the White Sox. Williams was replaced by Chris Getz, who was promoted to VP and GM.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 09-21-2023
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1695337703' Wrote: 1695337703[/url]']
Giants dateline='[url=tel:1695328884' Wrote: 1695328884[/url]']
BobK dateline='[url=tel:1695323228' Wrote: 1695323228[/url]']
Thanks about Crawford
Well Crawford, Mays and Barry Bonds
Oh yeah, I forgot about Bonds. That completes the OF (left to right - Bonds, Mays, Ott).
1B - Bill Terry
2B - ?
SS - Brandon Crawford
3B - ?
C - ?
RHP - Christy Mathewson
LHP - Carl Hubbell
More research needed to complete the team….
Good call on the pitchers and outfielders. I'd probably take McCovey over Bill Terry (but it's close). And it would have been interesting to see how well Johnny Mize would have done had he not lost three years to WWII at the peak of his career.
Tough call between Buck Ewing and Buster Posey, but I'd go with Posey (despite Ewing's 354 stolen bases), with Roger Bresnahan a close third.
At 2B, it depends on your service length requirements. Best second baseman was probably Rogers Hornsby, who only played for the Giants for a year. Otherwise, the best second baseman not in the Hall of Fame, Jeff Kent.
I'd take Frank "Home Run" Baker by a smidge over Freddie Lindstrom at 3B (both HoFers).
And I'll take John J. McGraw at manager, much as I liked Bochy, Durocher and Roger Craig.
Baker played in New York for the Yankees not the Giants. Lindstrom gets the nod at 3B.
Posey behind the plate, assuming he makes the HOF (my tiebreaker). He was a pure catcher (Ewing was primarily a catcher but did move around the diamond per baseball reference). And, Buster’s intangibles were off the chart (of course, we can’t measure the intangibles of the guys from the 1800’s).
2B - After doing a bit of research, I’m going with Larry Doyle from the early 1900’s. He holds the franchise record for most games played at the position (1591), was an integral part of a team that won three consecutive NL pennants and had a lifetime average of .290.
There you go…
Terry, Doyle, Crawford, Lindstrom, Bonds, Mays, Ott, Posey, Mathewson (RH) and Hubbell (LH) with McGraw as the manager.
Just one person’s opinion…….
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 09-21-2023
(09-21-2023, 04:42 PM)Giants Wrote:Mick dateline='[url=tel:1695337703' Wrote: 1695337703[/url]']
Giants dateline='[url=tel:1695328884' Wrote: 1695328884[/url]']
BobK dateline='[url=tel:1695323228' Wrote: 1695323228[/url]']
Thanks about Crawford
Well Crawford, Mays and Barry Bonds
Oh yeah, I forgot about Bonds. That completes the OF (left to right - Bonds, Mays, Ott).
1B - Bill Terry
2B - ?
SS - Brandon Crawford
3B - ?
C - ?
RHP - Christy Mathewson
LHP - Carl Hubbell
More research needed to complete the team….
Good call on the pitchers and outfielders. I'd probably take McCovey over Bill Terry (but it's close). And it would have been interesting to see how well Johnny Mize would have done had he not lost three years to WWII at the peak of his career.
Tough call between Buck Ewing and Buster Posey, but I'd go with Posey (despite Ewing's 354 stolen bases), with Roger Bresnahan a close third.
At 2B, it depends on your service length requirements. Best second baseman was probably Rogers Hornsby, who only played for the Giants for a year. Otherwise, the best second baseman not in the Hall of Fame, Jeff Kent.
I'd take Frank "Home Run" Baker by a smidge over Freddie Lindstrom at 3B (both HoFers).
And I'll take John J. McGraw at manager, much as I liked Bochy, Durocher and Roger Craig.
Baker played in New York for the Yankees not the Giants. Lindstrom gets the nod at 3B.
Posey behind the plate, assuming he makes the HOF (my tiebreaker). He was a pure catcher (Ewing was primarily a catcher but did move around the diamond per baseball reference). And, Buster’s intangibles were off the chart (of course, we can’t measure the intangibles of the guys from the 1800’s).
2B - After doing a bit of research, I’m going with Larry Doyle from the early 1900’s. He holds the franchise record for most games played at the position (1591), was an integral part of a team that won three consecutive NL pennants and had a lifetime average of .290.
There you go…
Terry, Doyle, Crawford, Lindstrom, Bonds, Mays, Ott, Posey, Mathewson (RH) and Hubbell (LH) with McGraw as the manager.
Just one person’s opinion…….
Good catch on Baker. Upon further reflection, I might take Matt Williams at 3B over Lindstrom. Williams 4x GG, 5x All Star, 4x Silver Slugger, 46.6 WAR vs. 28.7 WAR.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 09-21-2023
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1695340884' Wrote: 1695340884[/url]']
Giants dateline='[url=tel:1695339773' Wrote: 1695339773[/url]']
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1695337703' Wrote: 1695337703[/url]']
Giants dateline='[url=tel:1695328884' Wrote: 1695328884[/url]']
BobK dateline='[url=tel:1695323228' Wrote: 1695323228[/url]']
Thanks about Crawford
Well Crawford, Mays and Barry Bonds
Oh yeah, I forgot about Bonds. That completes the OF (left to right - Bonds, Mays, Ott).
1B - Bill Terry
2B - ?
SS - Brandon Crawford
3B - ?
C - ?
RHP - Christy Mathewson
LHP - Carl Hubbell
More research needed to complete the team….
Good call on the pitchers and outfielders. I'd probably take McCovey over Bill Terry (but it's close). And it would have been interesting to see how well Johnny Mize would have done had he not lost three years to WWII at the peak of his career.
Tough call between Buck Ewing and Buster Posey, but I'd go with Posey (despite Ewing's 354 stolen bases), with Roger Bresnahan a close third.
At 2B, it depends on your service length requirements. Best second baseman was probably Rogers Hornsby, who only played for the Giants for a year. Otherwise, the best second baseman not in the Hall of Fame, Jeff Kent.
I'd take Frank "Home Run" Baker by a smidge over Freddie Lindstrom at 3B (both HoFers).
And I'll take John J. McGraw at manager, much as I liked Bochy, Durocher and Roger Craig.
Baker played in New York for the Yankees not the Giants. Lindstrom gets the nod at 3B.
Posey behind the plate, assuming he makes the HOF (my tiebreaker). He was a pure catcher (Ewing was primarily a catcher but did move around the diamond per baseball reference). And, Buster’s intangibles were off the chart (of course, we can’t measure the intangibles of the guys from the 1800’s).
2B - After doing a bit of research, I’m going with Larry Doyle from the early 1900’s. He holds the franchise record for most games played at the position (1591), was an integral part of a team that won three consecutive NL pennants and had a lifetime average of .290.
There you go…
Terry, Doyle, Crawford, Lindstrom, Bonds, Mays, Ott, Posey, Mathewson (RH) and Hubbell (LH) with McGraw as the manager.
Just one person’s opinion…….
Good catch on Baker. Upon further reflection, I might take Matt Williams at 3B over Lindstrom. Williams 4x GG, 5x All Star, 4x Silver Slugger, 46.6 WAR vs. 28.7 WAR.
I only reviewed records produced as a Giant since we are talking about greatest Giants. Therefore, Williams’ numbers and accomplishments are reduced accordingly. Also, one can’t compare GG’s and All-Star appearances since neither existed in the 1920’s. Lindstrom holds on to his spot.
By the way, Williams greatest feat performed in favor of the Giants was his complete screw-up as the manager of the Nats in Game 2 of the 2014 NLDS when he removed Zimmerman with one out to go. Zimmerman had pitched a masterpiece to that point……
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - cardcrimson - 09-21-2023
What happened to "forever a Giant" I keep hearing on KNBR. Even for guys who wore the orange and black for a very short time. . ..
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 09-21-2023
(09-21-2023, 04:08 PM)Mick Wrote:(09-21-2023, 01:41 PM)Giants Wrote:BobK dateline='[url=tel:1695323228' Wrote: 1695323228[/url]']
Thanks about Crawford
Well Crawford, Mays and Barry Bonds
Oh yeah, I forgot about Bonds. That completes the OF (left to right - Bonds, Mays, Ott).
1B - Bill Terry
2B - ?
SS - Brandon Crawford
3B - ?
C - ?
RHP - Christy Mathewson
LHP - Carl Hubbell
More research needed to complete the team….
Good call on the pitchers and outfielders. At 1B, I'd probably take McCovey over Bill Terry (but it's close). And it would have been interesting to see how well Johnny Mize would have done had he not lost three years to WWII at the peak of his career.
Tough call between HoFer Buck Ewing and Buster Posey, but I'd go with Posey (despite Ewing's 354 stolen bases), with HoFer Roger Bresnahan a close third.
At 2B, it depends on your service length requirements. Best second baseman was probably Rogers Hornsby, who only played for the Giants for a year. Otherwise, the best second baseman not in the Hall of Fame, Jeff Kent.
I'd take Frank "Home Run" Baker by a smidge over Freddie Lindstrom at 3B (both HoFers).
And I'll take John J. McGraw at manager, much as I liked Bochy, Durocher and Roger Craig.
I've often wondered how much the Giants missed their batting coach, Donnie Ecker, who left after the 2021 season to be the batting coach and bench coach for the Texas Rangers. In response, SF Giant team OPS dropped from .749 in 2021 to .705 both last year and this year (so far).
Now the Giants lose their Director of Pitching, Brian Bannister who has joined the White Sox. Bannister worked remotely during the 2022 COVID season because he wouldn't get vaccinated, which was against MLB rules. Giant team ERA was 3.85 that year, jumping from 3.24 in 2021. It's 4.07 this year. During Bannister's term, Giant ERA was 3.80 overall (sixth best in MLB), and FIP was lowest in MLB at 3.72, and the lowest HR/9 innings and third lowest BB/9. He's a big loss.
Giants also lost pitching Ethan Katz to the White Sox in 2020.
Incidentally, Bannister's hiring wasn't the move of ex-Stanford player, Ken Williams, who has now become the ex-President/GM of the White Sox. Williams was replaced by Chris Getz, who was promoted to VP and GM.
I think Posey, retiring and Belt and Crawford aging has a lot more to do with it. . Batting coaches always get way too much of the blame when things are bad and too much credit when things are going well Talent is what makes the difference. Giants don’t have a lot right now.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 09-21-2023
(09-21-2023, 08:31 PM)Giants Wrote:Mick dateline='[url=tel:1695340884' Wrote: 1695340884[/url]']
Giants dateline='[url=tel:1695339773' Wrote: 1695339773[/url]']
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1695337703' Wrote: 1695337703[/url]']
Giants dateline='[url=tel:1695328884' Wrote: 1695328884[/url]']
Oh yeah, I forgot about Bonds. That completes the OF (left to right - Bonds, Mays, Ott).
1B - Bill Terry
2B - ?
SS - Brandon Crawford
3B - ?
C - ?
RHP - Christy Mathewson
LHP - Carl Hubbell
More research needed to complete the team….
Good call on the pitchers and outfielders. I'd probably take McCovey over Bill Terry (but it's close). And it would have been interesting to see how well Johnny Mize would have done had he not lost three years to WWII at the peak of his career.
Tough call between Buck Ewing and Buster Posey, but I'd go with Posey (despite Ewing's 354 stolen bases), with Roger Bresnahan a close third.
At 2B, it depends on your service length requirements. Best second baseman was probably Rogers Hornsby, who only played for the Giants for a year. Otherwise, the best second baseman not in the Hall of Fame, Jeff Kent.
I'd take Frank "Home Run" Baker by a smidge over Freddie Lindstrom at 3B (both HoFers).
And I'll take John J. McGraw at manager, much as I liked Bochy, Durocher and Roger Craig.
Baker played in New York for the Yankees not the Giants. Lindstrom gets the nod at 3B.
Posey behind the plate, assuming he makes the HOF (my tiebreaker). He was a pure catcher (Ewing was primarily a catcher but did move around the diamond per baseball reference). And, Buster’s intangibles were off the chart (of course, we can’t measure the intangibles of the guys from the 1800’s).
2B - After doing a bit of research, I’m going with Larry Doyle from the early 1900’s. He holds the franchise record for most games played at the position (1591), was an integral part of a team that won three consecutive NL pennants and had a lifetime average of .290.
There you go…
Terry, Doyle, Crawford, Lindstrom, Bonds, Mays, Ott, Posey, Mathewson (RH) and Hubbell (LH) with McGraw as the manager.
Just one person’s opinion…….
Good catch on Baker. Upon further reflection, I might take Matt Williams at 3B over Lindstrom. Williams 4x GG, 5x All Star, 4x Silver Slugger, 46.6 WAR vs. 28.7 WAR.
I only reviewed records produced as a Giant since we are talking about greatest Giants. Therefore, Williams’ numbers and accomplishments are reduced accordingly. Also, one can’t compare GG’s and All-Star appearances since neither existed in the 1920’s. Lindstrom holds on to his spot.
By the way, Williams greatest feat performed in favor of the Giants was his complete screw-up as the manager of the Nats in Game 2 of the 2014 NLDS when he removed Zimmerman with one out to go. Zimmerman had pitched a masterpiece to that point……
Matt Williams was a great Giant. Had a real chance, but/for the strike to hit 60. Was tremendous defensively.
I’ll pick my all-time team from players ive seen So, this this will be my time San Francisco Giants team.
C Posey
1B McCovey
2b Kent
SS Crawford
3b Williams
LF Bonds
Cf Willie
RF Bobby Bonds
DH Will Clark.
RH. Juan
LH. Mad Bum
Set up man - Romo
Closer - Robb Nen.
Manager. Bochy. But barely. Craig is close imo.
GM Sabean. Rosen a close second.
I’ll put that lineup against any teams all time lineup over last 65 years.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 09-21-2023
lex24 dateline='[url=tel:1695360555' Wrote: 1695360555[/url]']
Giants dateline='[url=tel:1695353475' Wrote: 1695353475[/url]']
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1695340884' Wrote: 1695340884[/url]']
Giants dateline='[url=tel:1695339773' Wrote: 1695339773[/url]']
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1695337703' Wrote: 1695337703[/url]']
Good call on the pitchers and outfielders. I'd probably take McCovey over Bill Terry (but it's close). And it would have been interesting to see how well Johnny Mize would have done had he not lost three years to WWII at the peak of his career.
Tough call between Buck Ewing and Buster Posey, but I'd go with Posey (despite Ewing's 354 stolen bases), with Roger Bresnahan a close third.
At 2B, it depends on your service length requirements. Best second baseman was probably Rogers Hornsby, who only played for the Giants for a year. Otherwise, the best second baseman not in the Hall of Fame, Jeff Kent.
I'd take Frank "Home Run" Baker by a smidge over Freddie Lindstrom at 3B (both HoFers).
And I'll take John J. McGraw at manager, much as I liked Bochy, Durocher and Roger Craig.
Baker played in New York for the Yankees not the Giants. Lindstrom gets the nod at 3B.
Posey behind the plate, assuming he makes the HOF (my tiebreaker). He was a pure catcher (Ewing was primarily a catcher but did move around the diamond per baseball reference). And, Buster’s intangibles were off the chart (of course, we can’t measure the intangibles of the guys from the 1800’s).
2B - After doing a bit of research, I’m going with Larry Doyle from the early 1900’s. He holds the franchise record for most games played at the position (1591), was an integral part of a team that won three consecutive NL pennants and had a lifetime average of .290.
There you go…
Terry, Doyle, Crawford, Lindstrom, Bonds, Mays, Ott, Posey, Mathewson (RH) and Hubbell (LH) with McGraw as the manager.
Just one person’s opinion…….
Good catch on Baker. Upon further reflection, I might take Matt Williams at 3B over Lindstrom. Williams 4x GG, 5x All Star, 4x Silver Slugger, 46.6 WAR vs. 28.7 WAR.
I only reviewed records produced as a Giant since we are talking about greatest Giants. Therefore, Williams’ numbers and accomplishments are reduced accordingly. Also, one can’t compare GG’s and All-Star appearances since neither existed in the 1920’s. Lindstrom holds on to his spot.
By the way, Williams greatest feat performed in favor of the Giants was his complete screw-up as the manager of the Nats in Game 2 of the 2014 NLDS when he removed Zimmerman with one out to go. Zimmerman had pitched a masterpiece to that point……
Matt Williams was a great Giant. Had a real chance, but/for the strike to hit 60. Was tremendous defensively.
I’ll pick my all-time team from players ive seen So, this this will be my time San Francisco Giants team.
C Posey
1B McCovey
2b Kent
SS Crawford
3b Williams
LF Bonds
Cf Willie
RF Bobby Bonds
DH Will Clark.
RH. Juan
LH. Mad Bum
Set up man - Romo
Closer - Robb Nen.
Manager. Bochy. But barely. Craig is close imo.
GM Sabean. Rosen a close second.
I’ll put that lineup against any teams all time lineup over last 65 years.
No doubt Matt Williams was a great Giant. However, only one per position on my list and he fell just a bit short. As for the the SF line-up, you would get no argument from me….
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - OutsiderFan - 09-22-2023
(09-21-2023, 08:50 AM)Giants Wrote:Mick dateline='[url=tel:1695311329' Wrote: 1695311329[/url]']
Remember David Villar? He was named the PCL MVP. First won by Lefty O'Doul (1927), also won by Joc Pederson (2014). Won 3x by Steve Bilko. Villar's stats were good, not riveting (.273/.370/.498/.868) with 16 HRs in 72 games. In 46 games with SF, he batted .145/.236/.315/.550.
A classic AAAA player…….
FACT
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 09-22-2023
(09-21-2023, 08:31 PM)Giants Wrote:Mick dateline='[url=tel:1695340884' Wrote: 1695340884[/url]']
Giants dateline='[url=tel:1695339773' Wrote: 1695339773[/url]']
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1695337703' Wrote: 1695337703[/url]']
Giants dateline='[url=tel:1695328884' Wrote: 1695328884[/url]']
Oh yeah, I forgot about Bonds. That completes the OF (left to right - Bonds, Mays, Ott).
1B - Bill Terry
2B - ?
SS - Brandon Crawford
3B - ?
C - ?
RHP - Christy Mathewson
LHP - Carl Hubbell
More research needed to complete the team….
Good call on the pitchers and outfielders. I'd probably take McCovey over Bill Terry (but it's close). And it would have been interesting to see how well Johnny Mize would have done had he not lost three years to WWII at the peak of his career.
Tough call between Buck Ewing and Buster Posey, but I'd go with Posey (despite Ewing's 354 stolen bases), with Roger Bresnahan a close third.
At 2B, it depends on your service length requirements. Best second baseman was probably Rogers Hornsby, who only played for the Giants for a year. Otherwise, the best second baseman not in the Hall of Fame, Jeff Kent.
I'd take Frank "Home Run" Baker by a smidge over Freddie Lindstrom at 3B (both HoFers).
And I'll take John J. McGraw at manager, much as I liked Bochy, Durocher and Roger Craig.
Baker played in New York for the Yankees not the Giants. Lindstrom gets the nod at 3B.
Posey behind the plate, assuming he makes the HOF (my tiebreaker). He was a pure catcher (Ewing was primarily a catcher but did move around the diamond per baseball reference). And, Buster’s intangibles were off the chart (of course, we can’t measure the intangibles of the guys from the 1800’s).
2B - After doing a bit of research, I’m going with Larry Doyle from the early 1900’s. He holds the franchise record for most games played at the position (1591), was an integral part of a team that won three consecutive NL pennants and had a lifetime average of .290.
There you go…
Terry, Doyle, Crawford, Lindstrom, Bonds, Mays, Ott, Posey, Mathewson (RH) and Hubbell (LH) with McGraw as the manager.
Just one person’s opinion…….
Good catch on Baker. Upon further reflection, I might take Matt Williams at 3B over Lindstrom. Williams 4x GG, 5x All Star, 4x Silver Slugger, 46.6 WAR vs. 28.7 WAR.
I only reviewed records produced as a Giant since we are talking about greatest Giants. Therefore, Williams’ numbers and accomplishments are reduced accordingly. Also, one can’t compare GG’s and All-Star appearances since neither existed in the 1920’s. Lindstrom holds on to his spot.
By the way, Williams greatest feat performed in favor of the Giants was his complete screw-up as the manager of the Nats in Game 2 of the 2014 NLDS when he removed Zimmerman with one out to go. Zimmerman had pitched a masterpiece to that point……
Lindstrom played his last game as a Giant by age 26. Williams was still a Giant at age 30. Lindstrom played 1,087 games for the Giants, and Matt Williams played more games for the Giants (1,120). Matt Williams' OPS+ was 122 for the Giants, Lindstrom's was 113. Williams led the league in HRs once and RBIs once. Lindstrom led the league in hits once (231, monster year), and also led the league in caught stealing. And finally, Lindstrom played 776 games at 3B for the Giants, whereas Williams played 878. Lindstrom played 71.4% of his games at 3B, Williams played 78.4% of his Giants games at 3B,
Also...Lindstrom played for the Dodgers one year. Can't forgive that.
It's close, but Williams gets my vote.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - BobK - 09-26-2023
Great game last night. Finally.
Yesterday in the Mercury Or chronicle Kapler talked about the starting pitchers for next season
Webb
Cobb
Harrison
Winn
Beck
Wood is a free agent
Stripling will make $12.5K but can opt out. Given his recent anger sure hope he opts out or eat it
DeSciafani $12K. Got to eat it
Manaea should stay at $ 12.5K
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - OutsiderFan - 09-26-2023
So can we start the 2024 thread now?
And how about one for the Warriors, who start training camp next week?
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - OutsiderFan - 09-26-2023
Just saw Logan Webb's comments that will be the source of much discussion in Giants world. I'm sure most everyone reading this has too, so won't re-cap it.
We can fit his comments into any possible explanation we want given his lack of specifics, but I will say it's GREAT to see the team leader calling out team management for not having a winning culture, and to get its act together because he wants to win.
I hope - man do I hope - that this is Webb's way of saying it's time to end the squeeze every ounce of nerd-based match-up analytics nonsense. Baseball is suppose to be fun and entertaining. The Giants have turned it into a game played by accountants looking at spreadsheets, and it is awful to watch. That approach - I'm assuming - disengages not only fans but the players, who never know when they might play, and where, in the field, or in the lineup.
Hopefully Webb wants to see a set lineup. Hopefully he wants to see a commitment to the young guys so they can get in routines and know their roles are the same each and every day. Hopefully he wants to see the best athletes playing the most. And most of all, hopefully he wants to see Starting Pitchers be Starting Pitchers again, and not do this fewest innings pitched by starters nonsense at the MLB and MiLB levels anymore.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 09-26-2023
Webb’s comments echoed what many observers have already addressed. The difference is he is a player not a member of the media or fan base.
Given the current contracts for Zaidi and Kapler expire after next season, I suggest they will make significant changes to how the Giants manage on-field decisions. Their jobs depend upon putting players in a position to succeed.
Analytics have a place in the game but the Giants have taken them to an extreme. There is still a place for the human element. Finding a balance is critical to building a winning culture. IMO, that is the first step that needs to be taken by Giants leadership. Is Zaidi capable of changing his approach? Well, his job is on the line now.
Greg Johnson is no dummy. He knows the team needs a jolt of energy (the team has a lot of nice complimentary pieces but lacks star power). Since the free agent market is barren (other than Ohtani and Bellinger), I expect to see more trades that usual. SF has some nice trade assets in the minors, it may be time to use those assets to acquire major league talent.
In other words, I fully expect to see a more stable 1-9 and consistency at the 3,4,5 spots in the line-up and a fixed starting rotation (I like the idea of Webb, Cobb, Harrison, Winn and Beck).
Time to crank up the Hot Stove……
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 09-26-2023
Giants Wrote:Webb’s comments echoed what many observers have already addressed. The difference is he is a player not a member of the media or fan base.Posey moved back to the Bay Area and wants to be more involved. He’s not going to be involved in day to day decisions. But I’m hopeful he will have a big voice in the post season discussion on what changes - process, personnel and perhaps coaches need to be made. His perspective is undoubtedly different from Zaidi and Kapler. And he certainly has credibility.
Given the current contracts for Zaidi and Kapler expire after next season, I suggest they will make significant changes to how the Giants manage on-field decisions. Their jobs depend upon putting players in a position to succeed.
Analytics have a place in the game but the Giants have taken them to an extreme. There is still a place for the human element. Finding a balance is critical to building a winning culture. IMO, that is the first step that needs to be taken by Giants leadership. Is Zaidi capable of changing his approach? Well, his job is on the line now.
Greg Johnson is no dummy. He knows the team needs a jolt of energy (the team has a lot of nice complimentary pieces but lacks star power). Since the free agent market is barren (other than Ohtani and Bellinger), I expect to see more trades that usual. SF has some nice trade assets in the minors, it may be time to use those assets to acquire major league talent.
In other words, I fully expect to see a more stable 1-9 and consistency at the 3,4,5 spots in the line-up and a fixed starting rotation (I like the idea of Webb, Cobb, Harrison, Winn and Beck).
Time to crank up the Hot Stove……
BobK Wrote:Great game last night. Finally.I’m guessing Manaea opts out. Add Black and Whisenhunt as candidates. It will as better than Webb, Cobb and TBDx3
Yesterday in the Mercury Or chronicle Kapler talked about the starting pitchers for next season
Webb
Cobb
Harrison
Winn
Beck
Wood is a free agent
Stripling will make $12.5K but can opt out. Given his recent anger sure hope he opts out or eat it
DeSciafani $12K. Got to eat it
Manaea should stay at $ 12.5K
Speaking of Webb. He’s not going to win the CY. Blake Snell probably is. Ponder this: Snell faced 11 batters past the 6th inning all year. Webb went at least 7 16 times.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 09-26-2023
(09-26-2023, 03:36 PM)lex24 Wrote: I’m guessing Manaea opts out. Add Black and Whisenhunt as candidates. It will as better than Webb, Cobb and TBDx3
I heard that Manaea wants out. Good. I've read that Conforto will opt out. Good. Glad to hear it. Watching him in the outfield is an adventure. He's lost a step, his bat is slower. Get rid of that .734 OPS. It would be $18 million wasted. Get rid of him. Wish Haniger would go too, but Haniger will stay. Maybe he'll be healthy next year. Wouldn't break my heart if Pederson was gone, too. I don't think I've ever seen a major leaguer that out of shape before.
Be nice to see both Rogers, Walker, Junis, Beck. Stripling...seeya.
DeSclafani actually was strong in April and March...2.70 ERA, then just got worse and worse as the year went on. Giants owe him $12 million for next year.
And Tyler Fitzgerald can rake...
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 09-26-2023
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1695783676' Wrote: 1695783676[/url]']
lex24 dateline='[url=tel:1695767771' Wrote: 1695767771[/url]']
I’m guessing Manaea opts out. Add Black and Whisenhunt as candidates. It will as better than Webb, Cobb and TBDx3
I heard that Manaea wants out. Good. I've read that Conforto will opt out. Good. Glad to hear it. Watching him in the outfield is an adventure. He's lost a step, his bat is slower. Get rid of that .734 OPS. It would be $18 million wasted. Get rid of him. Wish Haniger would go too, but Haniger will stay. Maybe he'll be healthy next year. Wouldn't break my heart if Pederson was gone, too. I don't think I've ever seen a major leaguer that out of shape before.
Be nice to see both Rogers, Walker, Junis, Beck. Stripling...seeya.
DeSclafani actually was strong in April and March...2.70 ERA, then just got worse and worse as the year went on. Giants owe him $12 million for next year.
And Tyler Fitzgerald can rake...
…and many thought Schmitt could “rake” after his hot start. Fitzgerald - until he produces at a decent level for an entire season, he is nothing more than a prospect.
Stripling is on the record as saying he will be back. I agree with your desire to see Manea and Conforto opt out.
If the Giants are planning on a no-platoon OF, I could see Haniger, Matos and a trade acquisition/free agent as the three guys. More no-platoon possibilities - Bailey, Luciano and Estrada up the middle at C, SS, 2B and the infield corners manned by Schmitt (if he can figure out the strike zone) and a trade acquisition at 1B. Of course, Ohtani will handle the DH spot.
OK, Farhan, make it so……
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - old spanish trail - 09-26-2023
Of course, Stripling wants to return. He's paid alot of money for less than 0 success. I'd keep Manaea, if he wants, and let him start. He was jerked around unmercifully.
Winn and Beck should be in the mix. Beck should speak with Webb and Cobb to develop a cutter, or.... Otherwise, agree with all that a consistent lineup will produce better results.