Outside Topic 2022 Giants thread - Printable Version
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RE: 2022 Giants thread - Goose - 04-14-2022
I think that ballplayers will still play a bit differently when they are way ahead. Human nature is to let up a little, not try quite so hard and to not take as many chances with your body. Why get hurt in a "meaningless" attempt to steal a base? Players also may want to get the game over with ASAP, so extending an inning may not be viewed as a positive. That said, removing certain strategic options as part of an unwritten rule makes no sense. It is up to each team what strategy they chose to use. If the defense is asleep, go ahead and steal the base if you want to. It is part of the game.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - cardcrimson - 04-14-2022
(04-14-2022, 10:04 AM)Giants Wrote: I agree. This isn’t a kids game where the difference in ability can be significant. Therefore, a mercy rule should be in place.
This is The Show. These are professionals whose skills and competitive instincts have been honed over the years to perform at the highest level in the game. It is all about production and results. To suggest to a player that he should relax because his team is up by nine runs in the second is ludicrous. Keep pushing, keep scoring runs. If the other team doesn’t like it, they can always do something about it. I would recommend playing better.
Heck, there will come a time when Kapler is on the other side of a beat down. No big deal, play through it and move on. Of all the things that Kapler has brought to the Giants, this may be my favorite - the attitude that “you better bring your A game if you want to compete with us”.
P.S. Hey, Bob Melvin, welcome to the Senior Circuit………..
Isn't Dubon on the borderline whether he stays in the majors or not? Why wouldn't a guy in that position do whatever it takes to get on base and perhaps stay in the majors?
lex24 - lex24 - 04-14-2022
(04-14-2022, 08:27 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Anyone here as proud to be a Giants fan as I am, knowing they were the first team to liberate themselves from baseball's outdated "unwritten rules" ?
https://theathletic.com/3248957/2022/04/13/rosenthal-its-past-time-to-stop-debating-and-just-scrap-baseballs-unwritten-rules/
How can you not want to play for this Gabe Kapler guy as a player?
“Major League Baseball for individual players is a game of survival,” said Kapler, a former player himself. “And Mauricio Dubón is depending upon his ability to be successful over a long period of time. He needs to use every tool at his disposal to be successful to stick at the major-league level, to demonstrate his value, to hone his craft. That doesn’t ebb and flow with the score. And it’s not just Mauricio. It’s Steven Duggar on the bases. It’s the pitcher on the mound. Everyone is competing on the baseball field. It doesn’t make any sense to have one part of the field stop competing and the other part keep competing.”
Mixed. Mostly much ado about nothing. But I’ll admit, I still prefer a guy that hits an HR drops the bat and jogs around the bases to one that flips the bat, jumps up, beats his chest etc. Then there’s the 15 hopper through the infield, guy gets on and does whatever little signal etc the team has. I like the old Barry Sanders motto - act like you’ve been there before and will be there again.
As for this whole kerfuffle it was much ado about nothing. San Diego didn’t retaliate they didn’t throw at anybody nobody ran on the field etc. Melvin and Matt Williams stared at Dubon for a while. Big deal.
Continuing to play hard with a big lead is obviously the right thing to do. And I suppose dropping down a bunt is no big deal either when you get right down to it. Having said that, I know there are several giants of the very near past who wouldn’t of liked it. Including our old HOF manager, and the Hall of Fame catcher that just quit. So I’m not quite ready to give Kapler a Nobel prize for this one.
Would love to have seen what Frank Robinson would’ve done. I think the next 10 Giants would’ve been eating dirt. That’s not right either. But in the long run I kind of like the fact that there are both school players and players with new approaches/thoughts. . Keep things kind of fun.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - Phogge - 04-14-2022
Frank often threw his elbow at the ball. Mean spirited guy. I much prefer Dusty who could be found having coffee near his hotel on a rainy morning in Scottsdale. Would talk with everybody.
lex24 - lex24 - 04-14-2022
(04-14-2022, 06:22 PM)Phogge Wrote: Frank often threw his elbow at the ball. Mean spirited guy. I much prefer Dusty who could be found having coffee near his hotel on a rainy morning in Scottsdale. Would talk with everybody.
brobdingnagian Dusty fan. Would like to see him get that elusive WS win.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - Mick - 04-14-2022
Just noticed that four of the Giants five best hitters weren't substantively on the roster last year; Luke Williams (.400), Heliot Ramos (.333), Joc Pederson (.308) and Joey Bart (.286).
Also noticed that Kevin Gausman is 0-1 for the Rockies with a 4.22 ERA after two starts and a 1.31 WHIP. I'd forgotten he was a career 50-66 before
the Giants' pitching gurus got him to 14-6 last year, his only winning season in 10 seasons to date.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - Phogge - 04-15-2022
Gausman is with the Jays. Feature game vs the Yankees last night on MLB TV. Still has strikeout stuff, 14 in 10 innings. better last night than first game.
Jays made a base running mistake with Vlad Jr. about to hit with bases loaded and two outs in the ninth. Jays almost match Dodgers with a core of Biggio, Bichette, Vlad and Springer.
lex24 - lex24 - 04-15-2022
(04-14-2022, 10:22 PM)Mick Wrote: Just noticed that four of the Giants five best hitters weren't substantively on the roster last year; Luke Williams (.400), Heliot Ramos (.333), Joc Pederson (.308) and Joey Bart (.286).
Also noticed that Kevin Gausman is 0-1 for the Rockies with a 4.22 ERA after two starts and a 1.31 WHIP. I'd forgotten he was a career 50-66 before
the Giants' pitching gurus got him to 14-6 last year, his only winning season in 10 seasons to date.
Little early don’t ya think.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - Phogge - 04-15-2022
Not too early to think about those 76 wins on the horizon.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - lex24 - 04-15-2022
(04-15-2022, 12:51 PM)Phogge Wrote: Not too early to think about those 76 wins on the horizon.
Evidently. Under your constant barrage, I’ve gone to 90…..
RE: lex24 - Mick - 04-15-2022
(04-15-2022, 12:37 PM)lex24 Wrote:(04-14-2022, 10:22 PM)Mick Wrote: Just noticed that four of the Giants five best hitters weren't substantively on the roster last year; Luke Williams (.400), Heliot Ramos (.333), Joc Pederson (.308) and Joey Bart (.286).
Also noticed that Kevin Gausman is 0-1 for the Rockies with a 4.22 ERA after two starts and a 1.31 WHIP. I'd forgotten he was a career 50-66 before
the Giants' pitching gurus got him to 14-6 last year, his only winning season in 10 seasons to date.
Little early don’t ya think.
Not allowed to express opinions by...? What's the embargo date? ;)
RE: 2022 Giants thread - DC 86 - 04-15-2022
(04-15-2022, 08:47 AM)Phogge Wrote: Jays almost match Dodgers with a core of Biggio, Bichette, Vlad and Springer.
Springer, Bichette and Vlad yes. Biggio isn't good.
Toronto's best are great (perhaps stronger than LA's best three batters) but the Dodgers have strong hitters in all nine spots in their lineup.
(04-14-2022, 10:22 PM)Mick Wrote: Just noticed that four of the Giants five best hitters weren't substantively on the roster last year; Luke Williams (.400), Heliot Ramos (.333), Joc Pederson (.308) and Joey Bart (.286).
Is batting average really the best metric for hitting? in any case one of those guys has six at bats this season and another one has five!
RE: 2022 Giants thread - lex24 - 04-15-2022
Rodon is a beast. He can stay healthy he will be something special. He will also make an absolute fortune next year
RE: 2022 Giants thread - OutsiderFan - 04-16-2022
Joey Bart is looking like a Rookie of the Year candidate.
lex24 - lex24 - 04-16-2022
(04-16-2022, 09:36 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Joey Bart is looking like a Rookie of the Year candidate.
He’s off to a good start. But 7 games out of a 162 game season is a bit early to start talking awards. Best thing is he certainly is a much more confident and comfortable player than in ‘20. For obvious reasons. My expectations for him remain being a solid receiver and supplying power. He’s gonna strike out a ton. But that doesn’t matter anymore.
I’ll predict a slash line. .225/.330/450/780. 21 HRs. He does that and is solid behind the plate and it will be a very good rookie year indeed.
Maddon intentionally walked Seager in 4th inning. Angels were down 3-2. There was one out. And the bases were loaded.
Only other two times that happened was with Barry Bonds (I remember that well. Showalter was manager. Giants were down 2 bottom nine two outs . Brent Mayne on deck. After Bonds walked, Mayne hit a rocket, but directly at the right fielder.).
Other was Josh Hamilton in 2008. When he was ripping it up. Don’t know the circumstances.
Maddon gets all sorts of props for being different etc. I just think he’s overrated. Seager ain’t Bonds (or even the 2008 version of Hamilton) and giving up a run with an int BB in a one run game is just dumb.
(04-15-2022, 01:37 PM)DC 86 Wrote:(04-15-2022, 08:47 AM)Phogge Wrote: Jays almost match Dodgers with a core of Biggio, Bichette, Vlad and Springer.
Springer, Bichette and Vlad yes. Biggio isn't good.
Toronto's best are great (perhaps stronger than LA's best three batters) but the Dodgers have strong hitters in all nine spots in their lineup.
(04-14-2022, 10:22 PM)Mick Wrote: Just noticed that four of the Giants five best hitters weren't substantively on the roster last year; Luke Williams (.400), Heliot Ramos (.333), Joc Pederson (.308) and Joey Bart (.286).
Is batting average really the best metric for hitting? in any case one of those guys has six at bats this season and another one has five!
I think Batting Average has become under appreciated and walks have become over appreciated. I realize batting average is not the be all metric. Far from it. But it’s still important imo. And I’d still take a guy hitting .275 with an on base percentage of .320 over a guy hitting 240 with an on base percentage of 340 – all other things being relatively equal.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - BobK - 04-16-2022
Stanford vs the Giants today with Cal Quantrill pitching for Cleveland
RE: lex24 - DC 86 - 04-16-2022
(04-16-2022, 09:56 AM)lex24 Wrote: I think Batting Average has become under appreciated and walks have become over appreciated. I realize batting average is not the be all metric. Far from it. But it’s still important imo. And I’d still take a guy hitting .275 with an on base percentage of .320 over a guy hitting 240 with an on base percentage of 340 – all other things being relatively equal.
How about a guy hitting .290 with a slugging percentage of .410 as opposed to a guy hitting .260 with a slugging percentage of .480? Setting aside the sample size issue my point wasn't that batting average has no value, but that using batting average in isolation to define the "Giants five best hitters" is a problem.
(04-16-2022, 03:19 PM)BobK Wrote: Stanford vs the Giants today with Cal Quantrill pitching for Cleveland
Quantrill left the game with the bases loaded and two outs in the fifth and Logan Allen gave up a two-run single to Belt in relief. Final line: 4.2 innings, 2 runs (both earned), 2 hits and 3 walks, 2 strikeouts.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - Giants - 04-16-2022
I think OPS is the best stat for measuring a hitter’s performance.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - DC 86 - 04-16-2022
(04-16-2022, 08:53 PM)Giants Wrote: I think OPS is the best stat for measuring a hitter’s performance.
Two problems with OPS:
1. Doesn't normalize for park and league factors as does OPS+ (although perhaps you meant OPS+ and not raw OPS).
2. Weighs OBP and SLG equally despite OPB being approximately three times more strongly correlated to run scoring. Additionally, the computation of OPS (and OPS+ for that matter) adds two fractions that have different denominators, which is problematic.
I would posit that wRC+ and wOBA are the best publicly available, easy-to-use hitting metrics. The most accurate formulas (in terms of correlation to run production and predictive performance) are based on linear weights.
RE: lex24 - lex24 - 04-16-2022
(04-16-2022, 04:54 PM)DC 86 Wrote:(04-16-2022, 09:56 AM)lex24 Wrote: I think Batting Average has become under appreciated and walks have become over appreciated. I realize batting average is not the be all metric. Far from it. But it’s still important imo. And I’d still take a guy hitting .275 with an on base percentage of .320 over a guy hitting 240 with an on base percentage of 340 – all other things being relatively equal.
How about a guy hitting .290 with a slugging percentage of .410 as opposed to a guy hitting .260 with a slugging percentage of .480? Setting aside the sample size issue my point wasn't that batting average has no value, but that using batting average in isolation to define the "Giants five best hitters" is a problem.
I’ll take .260 and .480. My point centered around the deemphasis of .BA as it relates to the overemphasis of walks.
(04-16-2022, 03:19 PM)BobK Wrote: Stanford vs the Giants today with Cal Quantrill pitching for Cleveland
Quantrill left the game with the bases loaded and two outs in the fifth and Logan Allen gave up a two-run single to Belt in relief. Final line: 4.2 innings, 2 runs (both earned), 2 hits and 3 walks, 2 strikeouts.