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RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - BobK - 07-18-2023

Meanwhile today bases loaded two out 2-1 count on Yaz he swings and misses twice on pitches a foot inside

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 07-18-2023

Giants win 4-2 to finish last night's rain-delayed game. Flores & Slater HRs, doubles for Flores, Pederson and Wisely. Bailey threw out speed demon de la Cruz, allowed de la Cruz to steal second (barely), then Tyler Rogers picked him off. Rogers also got win, Doval got 29th save, sixth win in a row for the Giants, 12 games over .500.

Luciano moved up to AAA yesterday.

Nightcap, as it were, is at 4:10 p.m.

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 07-18-2023

Giants won tonight, making it 7 in a row, and three in a row after the All Star game. Doval got both saves today, first since Robb Nen in 2000.

Current record is 54-41, 13 games over .500.

Just for grins...at this point in 2010, the Giants were 9 games over .500 (52-43), in 2012 they were 11 games over .500 (53-42) and in 2014, they were nine games over .500 (52-43).

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 07-20-2023

Injuries mounting.  Effecting their hitting. Pitching carrying this team right now.

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - old spanish trail - 07-20-2023

Yep. Wonder if Davis has "lower body injury" in addition to failing bat injury. Infield of Villar, Schmidt and Wisely aren't scaring anybody. Wilmer amazing though, and pitching has been great.

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 07-21-2023

Third straight loss.  Schmitt is 4-50.  And he looks like he’s carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders. I think it’s time to send him down.  Let him work on his approach in a less stressful environment.  It’s not uncommon for a prospect that is struggling to be sent down to work things out.  For his own good, now may be the time. 

Who gets called up?  

Luciano.

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 07-22-2023

Much has been made of Giants hitting woes this month. Especially focusing on rookies and MIF. But what’s been the bigger issue in July is lack of production from the key veterans - with the exception of Wilmer and to a lesser extent Conforto. To wit:

Yaz - .103/.268/.353/.486
Davis. .196/.268/353/621
Joc. .140/255/256/511
Slater 167/323/458/792 (except for .ba not bad, but he’s been slumping a bit)

This is not going to continue. One or more will heat up. And maybe Conforto will get hot. He’s had a decent year. Nothing special. Time to pick it up from here on out.

When the vets start to hit again, that should take some pressure off Schmitt, Bailey, Matos, Wisely.  

If I’m FZ, I count on my veteran hitters picking it up much more than I do Stripling, Wood, DeSclafani etc being able to pitch effectively down the stretch. Which is another reason Im first looking at acquiring an SP. ,

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - old spanish trail - 07-22-2023

(07-22-2023, 09:17 AM)lex24 Wrote:  Much has been made of Giants hitting woes this month. Especially focusing on rookies and MIF. But what’s been the bigger issue in July is lack of production from the key veterans - with the exception of Wilmer and to a lesser extent Conforto. To wit:

Yaz - .103/.268/.353/.486
Davis. .196/.268/353/621
Joc. .140/255/256/511
Slater 167/323/458/792 (except for .ba not bad, but he’s been slumping a bit)

This is not going to continue. One or more will heat up. And maybe Conforto will get hot. He’s had a decent year. Nothing special. Time to pick it up from here on out.

When the vets start to hit again, that should take some pressure off Schmitt, Bailey, Matos, Wisely.  

If I’m FZ, I count on my veteran hitters picking it up much more than I do Stripling, Wood, DeSclafani etc being able to pitch effectively down the stretch. Which is another reason Im first looking at acquiring an SP. ,

Yaz is going for the downs almost all the time. He's much better when he concentrates on line drives. Davis striking out at an alarming rate. Joc could walk alot more than he does. Matos and Bailey still hitting the ball hard. Schmitt is excellent in the field and team could carry him if they could start hitting. Missing Estrada big time. Agree re pitching. Wood is totally inconsistent, Stripling continues to give up 3 runs in five innings, DeScla pattern remains same (strike out and then home run). Not looking like a playoff team right now.

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - old spanish trail - 07-23-2023

Giants look spent. DeSclafini his usual several runs in 4 innings. Schmitt, Wisely and Villar flailing in strike outs. Yaz insists on uppercutting. With Slater and Wilmer coming up, announcers in full hope as if S and W were Mays and McCovey. No way this team makes the playoffs.

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 07-23-2023

(07-23-2023, 12:16 PM)old spanish trail Wrote:  Giants look spent. DeSclafini his usual several runs in 4 innings. Schmitt, Wisely and Villar flailing in strike outs. Yaz insists on uppercutting. With Slater and Wilmer coming up, announcers in full hope as if S and W were Mays and McCovey. No way this team makes the playoffs.

Tough stretch.  But it’s still a five and five road trip with one left. It’s funny, had the Giants taken two out of three in Pittsburgh, then split with Cincinnati then  one out of three in Washington with a couple of close games it would still be a five and five road trip.  But the feeling would be different.

Yeah, they look pretty damn tired right now. And as I have indicated it’s time for the veterans to step up. But they’re right in the thick of it. And should remain so.

On another front I’m not a big Keith Law fan. But he just released his top 60 Prospect List of players currently in minors. Only Giant farmhand is Harrison. Who he dropped to 40 from his prior rankings which had him at 12. (Luciano makes his HM list) Drop resulting from combo of command getting worse and right handers hitting him fairly well. Indicates he needs a third pitch.

Just opinion, so whatever. But what surprised me the most was the indication that Harrison has a grade 2 hamstring strain and partial tear and might be out the rest of the season. Nowhere have I read that he has a partial tear. Nor any indication that he might be done for the year.

If Law is right, i see it as a big blow. Cause it impedes his development, not because it means he won’t make it to San Francisco. Frankly, I’d come to that conclusion already. Rightly or wrongly. And if true, where the hell are all the San Francisco beat writers etc. on this?

Edit: Read an account from someone indicating he’s going to be back soon. So, who knows.

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 07-23-2023

(07-23-2023, 03:29 PM)lex24 Wrote:  
(07-23-2023, 12:16 PM)old spanish trail Wrote:  Giants look spent. DeSclafini his usual several runs in 4 innings. Schmitt, Wisely and Villar flailing in strike outs. Yaz insists on uppercutting. With Slater and Wilmer coming up, announcers in full hope as if S and W were Mays and McCovey. No way this team makes the playoffs.

Tough stretch.  But it’s still a five and five road trip with one left. It’s funny, had the Giants taken two out of three in Pittsburgh, then split with Cincinnati then  one out of three in Washington with a couple of close games it would still be a five and five road trip.  But the feeling would be different.

Yeah, they look pretty damn tired right now. And as I have indicated it’s time for the veterans to step up. But they’re right in the thick of it. And should remain so.

On another front I’m not a big Keith Law fan. But he just released his top 60 Prospect List of players currently in minors. Only Giant farmhand is Harrison. Who he dropped to 40 from his prior rankings which had him at 12. (Luciano makes his HM list) Drop resulting from combo of command getting worse and right handers hitting him fairly well. Indicates he needs a third pitch.

Just opinion, so whatever. But what surprised me the most was the indication that Harrison has a grade 2 hamstring strain and partial tear and might be out the rest of the season. Nowhere have I read that he has a partial tear. Nor any indication that he might be done for the year.

If Law is right, i see it as a big blow. Cause it impedes his development, not because it means he won’t make it to San Francisco. Frankly, I’d come to that conclusion already. Rightly or wrongly. And if true, where the hell are all the San Francisco beat writers etc. on this?

Edit: Read an account from someone indicating he’s going to be back soon. So, who knows.

I believe he will return in September when the roster expands.  Also, where did people have Bailey/Matos listed at this time last year?  There are a variety of reasons why a player may be struggling.  It is not necessarily because he is a poor prospect.  I fully expect Harrison and Luciano to be impact players with the Giants next season.

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 07-23-2023

(07-23-2023, 05:51 PM)Giants Wrote:  
(07-23-2023, 03:29 PM)lex24 Wrote:  
(07-23-2023, 12:16 PM)old spanish trail Wrote:  Giants look spent. DeSclafini his usual several runs in 4 innings. Schmitt, Wisely and Villar flailing in strike outs. Yaz insists on uppercutting. With Slater and Wilmer coming up, announcers in full hope as if S and W were Mays and McCovey. No way this team makes the playoffs.

Tough stretch.  But it’s still a five and five road trip with one left. It’s funny, had the Giants taken two out of three in Pittsburgh, then split with Cincinnati then  one out of three in Washington with a couple of close games it would still be a five and five road trip.  But the feeling would be different.

Yeah, they look pretty damn tired right now. And as I have indicated it’s time for the veterans to step up. But they’re right in the thick of it. And should remain so.

On another front I’m not a big Keith Law fan. But he just released his top 60 Prospect List of players currently in minors. Only Giant farmhand is Harrison. Who he dropped to 40 from his prior rankings which had him at 12. (Luciano makes his HM list) Drop resulting from combo of command getting worse and right handers hitting him fairly well. Indicates he needs a third pitch.

Just opinion, so whatever. But what surprised me the most was the indication that Harrison has a grade 2 hamstring strain and partial tear and might be out the rest of the season. Nowhere have I read that he has a partial tear. Nor any indication that he might be done for the year.

If Law is right, i see it as a big blow. Cause it impedes his development, not because it means he won’t make it to San Francisco. Frankly, I’d come to that conclusion already. Rightly or wrongly. And if true, where the hell are all the San Francisco beat writers etc. on this?

Edit: Read an account from someone indicating he’s going to be back soon. So, who knows.

I believe he will return in September when the roster expands.  Also, where did people have Bailey/Matos listed at this time last year?  There are a variety of reasons why a player may be struggling.  It is not necessarily because he is a poor prospect.  I fully expect Harrison and Luciano to be impact players with the Giants next season.

Harrison has had somewhat of a disappointing year. But he’s still a top prospect. And I think the Giants have been working with him on a third pitch change up, I think) to help him with right handers.   I don’t, however, expect to see him in SF this year. No reason to rush him.

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - old spanish trail - 07-24-2023

OOOf, more of the same. And now, Slater has lost his mojo.

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 07-24-2023

Zaidi is in a tough spot. I think the first thing an organization has to do prior to the deadline is take a good hard look at what they have on the roster and in the farm system, see where they are in the standings, and make a realistic assessment as to (1) are they legitimate playoff contender and (2) are they a team that can do some damage in the playoffs. 

Fans, of course, have a tendency to look at the last few games and react accordingly. Zaidi cannot, and fortunately will not do that. No matter how bad this team looked the last few days.

The problem he has, imo, is the answers, to some extent, depend in part on health. Losing Crawford and Estrada has been a major blow. Especially Estrada. Whether they can get anything from Crawford moving forward is a legitimate question. But he’s a veteran, has been there so many times before and is, I think, somewhat of a stabilizing influence. And when Estrada will be back on the field (not to mention how effective he will be once back) is still an open question. Add the fact that Yaz, Davis, Wade, Conforto and Slater have been dealing with injuries recently, and in some cases throughout the year, and the problem is compounded.

The Giants got a nice boost from the rookies. But in the end, it’s the veterans that have to carry a team. And right now, with the exception of Flores, they are flailing. That should change. Assuming health. A big assumption.

On the pitching side, the problem is not injuries, fortunately. The problem is they simply have not been able to count on Stripling, Manaea. Wood and DeSclafani. And it’s hard to put a whole lot of faith going forward that any of them will be contributors down the stretch. With the possible exception of Stripling, who’s been pitching a little better of late.  

If healthy, I think this roster as currently constructed certainly is a contender for a playoff spot. But I don’t really see them as one capable of doing a whole lot of damage once there. Primarily because of what I view as a lack of pitching on the front end. Webb and Cobb are a nice one two punch. After that it’s essentially TBD. If healthy, add a third frontline starter to the staff and maybe this is a team that can do some real damage.

But if healthy is a major qualifier. And that especially is true up the middle. Schmitt, Wisely and Matos are all very nice prospects. But to expect them to carry the load down the stretch at second short andvcenterfield is, in my opinion, unrealistic. Bailey is terrific. But I have some concern about him wearing down as the season goes on. He will be playing a whole lot more games than he ever has before at an incredibly demanding position mentally, and physically. My guess is he will continue to shine defensively, but his bat will suffer. 

So, during the next week, Zaidi and Co has to analyze this, and determine whether to go after a front line starter and/or a middle infielder. As part of that determination, they have to consider what they are willing to part with. And I think that depends upon their feelings relating to the two questions I posed. Which, brings me back to health.

Not an easy call. But it’s why Zaidi gets paid the big bucks. And it’s going to be quite interesting to see what he does 

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - BobK - 07-24-2023

Great post Lex. Hope for something positive happens

I’m other news Mike Ivie died at 70. So many big hits from him with the Giants

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 07-24-2023

(07-24-2023, 04:29 PM)BobK Wrote:  Great post Lex.  Hope for something positive happens

I’m other news Mike Ivie died at 70.  So many big hits from him with the Giants

I heard that. Sad to learn. I can still remember Lon Simmons call of the pinch hit grand slam he hit, I think off of Don Sutton. I was playing catch with my brother at Mitchell Park in Palo Alto. We were listening to the game. I think it was 1978.

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 07-24-2023

Well said, Lex.  I expect Zaidi will trade for a starter and middle infielder (as all the pundits have been saying).  While that might get the SF to the playoffs, I doubt whether it will take them to the NLCS.  I would prefer thoroughly exploring the landscape but make no decisions that involve the big three (Whisenhunt, Luciano, Harrison).

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - OutsiderFan - 07-25-2023

(07-24-2023, 04:22 PM)lex24 Wrote:  If healthy, I think this roster as currently constructed certainly is a contender for a playoff spot. But I don’t really see them as one capable of doing a whole lot of damage once there. 

This has been my opinion all season. When it comes to trades, Farhan said it last week. Teams don't decide whether they are buyers or sellers until the last week before the deadline. If the current Giants players were performing well, the front office would reward them by trading some prospects not on the team for a difference maker or two. The current players are not performing, so they will not be rewarded with help. It's time to think about future Giants teams, not the current one. NFL training camps open this week, that means the Niners are about to push the Giants into irrelevancy anyway.

So...it's time to trade Joc Pederson, Wilmer Flores, and any relievers that can net you something interesting.

Pederson is a playoff-experienced LH DH with an .831 OPS and is on an expiring contract. Flores is a great RH DH with another year of team control (for just $6.5M) on a hot streak and a nearly .900 OPS. These guys will actually land some decent prospects. 

You might say it is crazy to trade the two best offensive players the Giants have when they are struggling mightily to score, but they are losing with these guys. Another reason to trade is because the D-Backs are gonna be buyers and the Reds/Brewers are better. Will the Giants stave off the Phillies who are better, and the Marlins too? Doubtful. And even if they do, are they going to do anything in the playoffs? The answer is no, they will not.

I'd rather finish below .500 with a better farm system than finish above .500 with a lesser system because there is no way the Giants have what it takes to be anything more than an also ran this season. When that is the case, build for future.

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Leftcoast - 07-25-2023

So become the As? 

Hope not.  The Giants have to both win now and build the future.  It's harder but if they want to be a top tier team they need to figure this out.  Their fans aren't ready for them to tank and we've watched the As and their perpetual building plan with horror for years.

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - BayAreaCardinal - 07-25-2023

(07-25-2023, 10:54 AM)Leftcoast Wrote:  So become the As? 

Hope not.  The Giants have to both win now and build the future.  It's harder but if they want to be a top tier team they need to figure this out.  Their fans aren't ready for them to tank and we've watched the As and their perpetual building plan with horror for years.

Agree. I think they are closer to contending than to perennial losers. Still in the division race and tied for a wild card spot at the moment.