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RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 07-01-2023

In fact, the Giants are one of the BEST fielding teams in the game.

Take a look at these numbers…

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/outs_above_average?type=Fielding_Team&startYear=2023&endYear=2023&split=yes&team=&range=year&min=q&pos=&roles=&viz=hide

Heck, yesterday’s game was decided by an incredible defensive play (if you have a subscription, read Andrew Baggerly’s terrific article at The Athletic about the Patrick Bailey throw to beat the Mets).  

There is no doubt that it is far too early to begin making comparisons to Buster but Bailey is definitely making it hard not to, at least, dream about the possibility that the Giants struck gold in the first round of the 2020 MLB draft.

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 07-01-2023

(07-01-2023, 10:56 AM)Giants Wrote:  In fact, the Giants are one of the BEST fielding teams in the game.

Take a look at these numbers…

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/outs_above_average?type=Fielding_Team&startYear=2023&endYear=2023&split=yes&team=&range=year&min=q&pos=&roles=&viz=hide

Heck, yesterday’s game was decided by an incredible defensive play (if you have a subscription, read Andrew Baggerly’s terrific article at The Athletic about the Patrick Bailey throw to beat the Mets).  

There is no doubt that it is far too early to begin making comparisons to Buster but Bailey is definitely making it hard not to, at least, dream about the possibility that the Giants struck gold in the first round of the 2020 MLB draft.

Amazing how quickly perceptions change.  He was a bust last year.  

He’s been terrific, no doubt.  But it’s 35 games.  The Posey comparisons (which I know you aren’t doing, but others are) are silly.  

His throwing is excellent, albeit different.  I don’t think he has a great arm.  But he’s very quick getting rid of the ball, throws from all angles and is accurate. 

The hitting (especially from the right side) has been much better than expected. I don’t expect him to continue at this level.  But he’s shown the potential.  

Stil think Giants should send Schmitt down.  I don’t think sitting and getting a few PAs is helping him.  Scouting services have projected him largely as a utility infielder, largely cause they don’t think his bat is sufficient to play third.  He’s shown he can hit a fastball.  He’s very quick middle in, which is important.  If a hitter can’t catch up with fastballs in, pitchers just pound them in.  But he struggles mightily with breaking balls.  I’ve seen comparisons to a young Matt Williams. But he doesn’t have Williams power. 

He has to figure out pitch selection if he’s going to be more than just a utility player. He has a better chance to do that at Sac.  At least get him some consistent PAs so he can work on it.

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - old spanish trail - 07-02-2023

Agree re Schmidt, Lex, but doesn't seem like Giants agree.

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 07-02-2023

Prior to Saturday’s game, Showalter had some thoughts about the Giants (following his observations re: Bailey’s terrific defensive play that put SF in a position to win the game):  

“…they seem to be able to defend and they’re able to take their backup catcher and put him in left field.  That kid in center (Luis Matos) is young and athletic and can run the ball down.  A lot of times, when a team starts playing better, a lot of it is attributed to defense”.  

I find it interesting that opposing managers are commenting how well the San Francisco D is playing.

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - OutsiderFan - 07-02-2023

It’s clearly obvious the Giants suck at defense, and it’s on display for a national ESPN audience to see tonight.

Crawford drops a throw that allows a run to score. After Matos overruns a ball that allows a run to score, they have a guy in a pickle but nobody covers second base. Yes, great defense.

Don’t get why they took Stripling out after 26 pitches through 2 innings.

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 07-03-2023

(07-02-2023, 05:44 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  It’s clearly obvious the Giants suck at defense, and it’s on display for a national ESPN audience to see tonight.

Crawford drops a throw that allows a run to score. After Matos overruns a ball that allows a run to score, they have a guy in a pickle but nobody covers second base. Yes, great defense.

Don’t get why they took Stripling out after 26 pitches through 2 innings.

Yes, because errors don’t happen to other teams   You can continue your narrative, no matter  how wrong you are. They have been an average defensive team by runs saved. Crawford has struggled. I’m b eating on him to change that.

Matos is a plus defender, so is Bailey, Estrada and most surprisingly Davis. Wade has made a high number of errors for a 1B. He also, at one time, had the best range of any first baseman. Yaz is an excellent RF. He is more pedestrian in Center. But he very seldom makes the “wrong” play. Conforto has not been good.

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 07-03-2023

How to handle the”rotation” going forward is the biggest question and biggest test for Kapler. He won’t make the decision alone, but he wears it - good or bad.  

The Giants have had a terrific run. They have done so with essentially a day by day approach for some time. I question that sustainability. They have two locks - Webb and Cobb. And some choices, DeSclafani, Winn, Wood, Stripling, Manaea even Junis. Pick 2 out of those and add them to a rotation. The fifth slot can be your opener. None of those guys should be an opener. I didn’t see yesterday, but Stripling retired 6 of 7. Why was he pulled? Cause that’s how they drafted it up? That’s fine with a true opener. But with someone that can give innings, how he’s throwing the ball should matter.

They can’t keep going with Webb, Cobb and three days of TBD.

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 07-03-2023

(07-03-2023, 11:25 AM)lex24 Wrote:  How to handle the”rotation” going forward is the biggest question and biggest test for Kapler. He won’t make the decision alone, but he wears it - good or bad.  

The Giants have had a terrific run. They have done so with essentially a day by day approach for some time. I question that sustainability. They have two locks - Webb and Cobb. And some choices, DeSclafani, Winn, Wood, Stripling, Manaea even Junis. Pick 2 out of those and add them to a rotation. The fifth slot can be your opener. None of those guys should be an opener. I didn’t see yesterday, but Stripling retired 6 of 7. Why was he pulled? Cause that’s how they drafted it up? That’s fine with a true opener. But with someone that can give innings, how he’s throwing the ball should matter.

They can’t keep going with Webb, Cobb and three days of TBD.

Webb
Cobb
Stripling
Winn
Wood

DeSclafina needs extra rest between starts so he can spot start for guys who also may need an extra day periodically.  

I would like to see Winn in the rotation.  Time to see what the young guys can do…..

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 07-03-2023

(07-03-2023, 11:54 AM)Giants Wrote:  
(07-03-2023, 11:25 AM)lex24 Wrote:  How to handle the”rotation” going forward is the biggest question and biggest test for Kapler. He won’t make the decision alone, but he wears it - good or bad.  

The Giants have had a terrific run. They have done so with essentially a day by day approach for some time. I question that sustainability. They have two locks - Webb and Cobb. And some choices, DeSclafani, Winn, Wood, Stripling, Manaea even Junis. Pick 2 out of those and add them to a rotation. The fifth slot can be your opener. None of those guys should be an opener. I didn’t see yesterday, but Stripling retired 6 of 7. Why was he pulled? Cause that’s how they drafted it up? That’s fine with a true opener. But with someone that can give innings, how he’s throwing the ball should matter.

They can’t keep going with Webb, Cobb and three days of TBD.

Webb
Cobb
Stripling
Winn
Wood

DeSclafina needs extra rest between starts so he can spot start for guys who also may need an extra day periodically.  

I would like to see Winn in the rotation.  Time to see what the young guys can do…..

I'd like to see Beck start...

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - old spanish trail - 07-03-2023

That was weird yesterday. Kapler is too cute for his own good sometimes. Stripling with best outing of the season. If still counting on him as a starter, let him go to improve length. Remove him quickly if trouble arrives. Wood has been Jekyll and Hyde. He should start with a quick hook if ineffective. Wood hasn't shown he does well in relief, right?

I'd be fine with giving both Winn and Beck a start.

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 07-03-2023

(07-03-2023, 02:19 PM)old spanish trail Wrote:  That was weird yesterday. Kapler is too cute for his own good sometimes. Stripling with best outing of the season. If still counting on him as a starter, let him go to improve length. Remove him quickly if trouble arrives. Wood has been Jekyll and Hyde. He should start with a quick hook if ineffective. Wood hasn't shown he does well in relief, right?

I'd be fine with giving both Winn and Beck a start.

Managing by rote.  Pencil it out pre game and stick to it no matter what.  It’s a scourge on the game.  Ask Joe Maddon.

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 07-03-2023

(07-03-2023, 04:42 PM)lex24 Wrote:  
(07-03-2023, 02:19 PM)old spanish trail Wrote:  That was weird yesterday. Kapler is too cute for his own good sometimes. Stripling with best outing of the season. If still counting on him as a starter, let him go to improve length. Remove him quickly if trouble arrives. Wood has been Jekyll and Hyde. He should start with a quick hook if ineffective. Wood hasn't shown he does well in relief, right?

I'd be fine with giving both Winn and Beck a start.

Managing by rote.  Pencil it out pre game and stick to it no matter what.  It’s a scourge on the game.  Ask Joe Maddon.

He was on a 60 pitch limit as he ramps up following his injury.  He could have gone one more inning but Wood had pitched well as a second man up in his previous outing.  I can see why Kapler pulled Stripling.

Crawford day-to-day, it is time for Schmitt to step up. Also, Estrada will be out for a while with a hand fracture. Wisely is back…

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - old spanish trail - 07-03-2023

I'm afraid Estrada out for 4-6 weeks dooms them. Good D, hits anywhere in lineup, fairly good in clutch, pretty good power, among leaders in steals, etc. No one comes close to replacing him unless Schmidt finds a hitter's eye.

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - OutsiderFan - 07-04-2023

I see the Giants gave away more outs in their 5th loss is 6 games, but keep on falling on that above average defense sword.

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 07-04-2023

(07-04-2023, 04:10 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  I see the Giants gave away more outs in their 5th loss is 6 games, but keep on falling on that above average defense sword.

How often do you watch?  Did you watch last night?  Did you happen to see Wade make a terrific diving stop to save two runs? Sabol hurt them defensively. He’s a poor catcher. But he’s only back there 1 out of every 6 or 7. (He also made up for it with 2 HRs and 5 RBIs) Bailey better stay healthy.

There are folks  on this board that know the game and watch the Giants damn near every day . I’m one of them.  So, I’m not relying on boxscores or any one stat.  I’m relying on “traditional stats”, metrics and what I see day in day out.

No one says Giants are good defensively.  They are just not, as you continue to assert, one of baseballs worst defensive teams.  Last year they were awful.  The difference is appreciable. It’s not just errors that define a defense.  It’s the ability to make plays to save runs.  The Giants have been better on that front.  

Ironically, Crawford is their lowest rated infielder at this point.  Yet, in my mind “hit it to Crawford “ still applies.  That’s based on watching him for about 13 years, day in day out.  And my belief he will be there at the biggest moments.

Where were you on the Giants “poor “ defense when the Giants put up one of the best records in baseball over about 1/3 of the season?

They’ve hit a rough patch. Happens to all teams. This one  may continue a while. Losing Estrada hurts. A lot. He’s played near an all-star level.  The rotation, such as it is, is a shambles.  So, they move to this “bulk innings” concept.  Which I intensely dislike.  But have to admit has been successful to date. Sustainable?  Don’t know.  Aesthetically, it stinks. And I think it’s hard to maintain.

Giants are much better than I thought they would be back in March.  I predicted 78 wins.  Gonna be very wrong.  Probably buying Phogge dinner and Mick a nice (though reasonably priced :) bottle of red). Will be quite happy to pay off.

 I have no problem admitting when I am wrong.  Try it once in a while…..

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 07-04-2023

Schmitt.  Pre Estrada thought he should be sent down. Now, give him about 2 week’s playing everday at second (except when he slides to SS to spell Crawford). See if he can find a groove.  Wisely is not the answer and they lose way too much defensively if Flores plays second.

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - old spanish trail - 07-04-2023

(07-04-2023, 07:40 AM)lex24 Wrote:  Schmitt.  Pre Estrada thought he should be sent down. Now, give him about 2 week’s playing everday at second (except when he slides to SS to spell Crawford). See if he can find a groove.  Wisely is not the answer and they lose way too much defensively if Flores plays second.

Agree, Lex. Wisely is just preventing Schmitt's growth...or lack of same.. in which case he should be sent down to play every day until he fixes it.

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 07-06-2023

Nice win. Got great pitching.  Schmitt saved run with terrific play.

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 07-06-2023

Giants only struck out 5x yesterday. Matos went 2/3 with a triple, Flores went 3/4, and the Stanford flash was on base (walks) 2x out of 3. Cobb pitched great, and Ta. Rogers, Ty. Rogers and Doval gave up one hit total over the last three innings. Giants have 8 team shutouts, T5 in MLB. Toronto has 10, Cubs, Dodgers and Rays have 9. 

Tomorrow night, Giants start a three game series at home against the Rockies, who have the worst record in the NL (33-55). If the Giants sweep, they'll be back at 10 games over .500.

RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - OutsiderFan - 07-06-2023

The Giants ain't gonna beat the Rockies scoring the 2.1 runs/game they are averaging over their last 9. The Rockies are averaging double that amount over the same span.

How the hell did they only score 2 runs with all the performances Mick listed?