Outside Topic SF Giants 2024 - Printable Version
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RE: SF Giants 2024 - lex24 - 11-04-2023
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1699134578' Wrote: 1699134578[/url]']
lex24 dateline='[url=tel:1699126754' Wrote: 1699126754[/url]']
Yoshinobo Yamamoto. Please, Giants. Sign him.
Yes please. And Ohtani and Lee Jung-Ho (KBO). And like I said, I'll buy season tickets if they sign two of the following: SS Munetaka Murekami ( probably not eligible until 2025), and pitchers Naoyuki Uwasawa, Kona Takahashi, Shota Imanaga, and Yuki Matsui.
Lee is a good possibility, I think.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Mick - 11-04-2023
(11-04-2023, 11:56 AM)lex24 Wrote: Mick,
I don’t think you answered any of my questions. But I’ll ask another - what point are you trying to prove? Not sure I get it. Are you upset that the Giants fired Kapler?
Cause you can throw out any numbers or dredge up “mistakes” all you want. But you wont find anyone in the baseball world that puts Kapler in the same conversation with Torre or Bochy.
Edit - I was curious on the Bernie Williams thing. He DH’d that game and some others in the series. I wonder if he was banged up.
To your questions:
1. Name a manager that wins without talent. Well Kapler won 107 games with essentially the same team as his 81-81 team. That was my point, I'm sorry, I thought it was obvious when I kept saying they fired the wrong guy. My point was that Farhan didn't deliver talent (nor did Bobby Evans in prior years, nor did Sabean in his last years). But Farhan got a three year deal.
2. Give me the name of ANYONE that suggests Kapler is in the same stratosphere as Bochy as a manager. Just one person. Not me, certainly. As I'd said, half of Bochy's seasons had a worse result than Kapler's worst season. So they're definitely not in the same...category.
3. Give me the name of a player that speaks of Kapler in the same manner as players talk about Bochy. The players on the 107 win team.
Look, I get it. Kapler was a non-confirmist and he honks off people who like traditional managers, fat guys who walk with a slight limp and say things like "well boys, the ball is round and the bat is round and you've got to hit it square." (extra points if you know the reference). Basically, guys like Melvin and Bochy. Which is why I was disappointed in your answer when I asked how many games the Giants should win next year. After all, if St. Bob of Melvin is the manager who will cure all ills that the dastardly Kapler created, and since he and Farhan got three year contracts, shouldn't the Giants win at least 90 if not 100...or 108?
RE: SF Giants 2024 - lex24 - 11-05-2023
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1699135190' Wrote: 1699135190[/url]']
lex24 dateline='[url=tel:1699124214' Wrote: 1699124214[/url]']
Mick,
I don’t think you answered any of my questions. But I’ll ask another - what point are you trying to prove? Not sure I get it. Are you upset that the Giants fired Kapler?
Cause you can throw out any numbers or dredge up “mistakes” all you want. But you wont find anyone in the baseball world that puts Kapler in the same conversation with Torre or Bochy.
Edit - I was curious on the Bernie Williams thing. He DH’d that game and some others in the series. I wonder if he was banged up.
To your questions:
1. Name a manager that wins without talent. Well Kapler won 107 games with essentially the same team as his 81-81 team. That was my point, I'm sorry, I thought it was obvious when I kept saying they fired the wrong guy. My point was that Farhan didn't deliver talent (nor did Bobby Evans in prior years, nor did Sabean in his last years). But Farhan got a three year deal.
2. Give me the name of ANYONE that suggests Kapler is in the same stratosphere as Bochy as a manager. Just one person. Not me, certainly. As I'd said, half of Bochy's seasons had a worse result than Kapler's worst season. So they're definitely not in the same...category.
3. Give me the name of a player that speaks of Kapler in the same manner as players talk about Bochy. The players on the 107 win team.
Look, I get it. Kapler was a non-confirmist and he honks off people who like traditional managers, fat guys who walk with a slight limp and say things like "well boys, the ball is round and the bat is round and you've got to hit it square." (extra points if you know the reference). Basically, guys like Melvin and Bochy. Which is why I was disappointed in your answer when I asked how many games the Giants should win next year. After all, if St. Bob of Melvin is the manager who will cure all ills that the dastardly Kapler created, and since he and Farhan got three year contracts, shouldn't the Giants win at least 90 if not 100...or 108?
Mick,
I think we’ve batted this back and forth enough. I’ll respond and then you may have the last word.
IMO 107 had much more to do with rejuvenated Posey and Belt and Crawford having career offensive years. Not hindsight on my part. I said it many a time prior to ‘22. Which is why I predicted 80 wins in ‘22. 78 in ‘23.
Remember after ‘22 Zaidi saying that he had no idea just how much they’d miss Posey. He was “surprised “ . I don’t think that’s just for the numbers he put up.
Some players have said they “like” Kapler. Haven’t heard one say they respect him.
As for Zaidi, I wouldn’t worry too much about the extension. That was done to mirror Melvin and show stability. If Zaidi strikes out this winter and ‘24 goes south, he could be fired.
Don’t get the snark on Melvin. Or for that matter the whole fat boys stuff. I don’t want a manager that is essentially the puppet of the POBO. Which I believe Kapler was and Melvin will not be. But I’ve never said Melvin is a “savior”. Just that he won’t be Kapler.
I’m not as analytics oriented as you. Different strokes for different folks. Not saying I’m right, you’re wrong. Just different
How many would they have won with Melvin - 85. There, I answered. :)
In any event, big Winter coming up. I think we agree Zaidi needs to score. Let’s hope.
You get last word.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - BobK - 11-05-2023
Stripling staying.
Manaea leaving
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Giants - 11-05-2023
BobK dateline='[url=tel:1699232227' Wrote: 1699232227[/url]']
Stripling staying.
Manaea leaving
Cobb staying
Conforto? We will find out soon….
RE: SF Giants 2024 - BobK - 11-05-2023
Did you see Cobb had an operation out until late May or June
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Giants - 11-05-2023
BobK dateline='[url=tel:1699238164' Wrote: 1699238164[/url]']
Did you see Cobb had an operation out until late May or June
Yep. Six months recovery time from his surgery in October. I would expect him to return sometime in May.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - OutsiderFan - 11-06-2023
Putting aside the squabbles over which arrangement of the deck chairs on the Titanic made it the most seaworthy, do you guys expect the Giants to:
A. Sign and announce their biggest prize acquisition before signing a lesser free agent, to kick things off fast with a a hyper-skeptical fan base?
B. Sign and announce a lesser free agent that doesn't move the needle much on player value or fan interest, before their biggest signing?
All would seemingly be forgiven if they sign some journeyman before landing a big, flashy player, but are the Giants prepared for and are they willing to take the criticism fans are ready to pelt them with if they don't make an immediate impact signing first?
It would make me feel a lot better about the organization if the Giants land their guys on the first day of free agency, like happens in the NBA and NFL. It would instill some faith and trust in the organization that I currently do not have. But that has to be balanced with the fact there is no urgency to sign because there is no salary cap.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Giants - 11-06-2023
Baseball free agency is different. For example, Boras, the agent-king, likes to hold his big-name clients guys out of the mix until late in the game.
Generally, the higher-end players don’t sign until the winter meeting in December (at the earliest).
Since Bellinger/Nola (Ohtani is in a class by himself) will set the market, many guys will wait until they sign before making a move.
And, of course, Yamamoto’s signing is dependent upon when he is officially posted (followed by a bidding period of 30 days). Only then will we know where he is going.
In other words, in baseball, it isn’t the teams that call the shots, it is the agents who run the show. SF will be in the mix throughout the process for all their targets, signing guys (or not) only after the agents have finished wringing every last dollar from the winning bidder.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - BobK - 11-06-2023
Mick had suggested Steven Vogt as a possible Giant Manager. I lol. Today Vogt was named the Guardians Manager
Good call Mick
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Mick - 11-06-2023
(11-06-2023, 09:52 AM)BobK Wrote: Mick had suggested Steven Vogt as a possible Giant Manager. I lol. Today Vogt was named the Guardians Manager
Good call Mick
Hope he does well. The Guardians have an even bigger hill to climb that the Giants. They pitched reasonably well, 8th in runs allowed, 10th in ERA but just 18th in WHIP, suggesting that they got lucky in the field. They can't hit well, having finished 27th in runs per game, and their fielding is just average -- fielding percentage just above MLB average, Rtot just below MLB average, DPs 24th in MLB.
Their starters were a bit above average, relievers a bit below average. They had three strong rookie starters (Tanner Bibee, Gavin Williams & Logan Allen). They were weak up the middle -- both SS and Catchers were 27th in WAR, CF was 25th. Only 2B was 2nd in WAR. Corner infielders were 13th (1B) and 7th (3B). 7th in LF, 26th in RF.
They finished 13 games back of the wild card with a -35 run differential but won the AL Central in 2022. Vogt has his work cut out for him. He replaces Terry Francona who retired after 11 years and is likely a future HoFer.
Cleveland interviewed SF Giants bullpen coach Craig Albernaz, along with LAD 1st base coach McCulllough, and the Cubs and Yankees bench coaches. Also interviewed Brewers manager Craig Counsell.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - BobK - 11-06-2023
Conforto stays with the Giants
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Mick - 11-06-2023
(11-06-2023, 12:28 PM)BobK Wrote: Conforto stays with the Giants
Not surprising. He's overpaid and he knows it. But if he blows it out this year, he might get one more big contract.
Giants currently have the #15 payroll in MLB per Spotrac at $128 mms. Spotrac projects their Total Tax Allocation at $165 mms., with a 2024 Tax of $237 mms. leaving $73 mms. to spend on Ohtani, Yamamoto and others.
Of not inconsiderable concern is the fact that their top six paid players all have gigantic question marks: Haniger ($19 mms.), Conforto ($18 mms.), Ross Stripling ($15 mms.), Anthony DeSclafani ($12 mms.), Taylor Rogers ($12 mms.), and Alex Cobb ($10 mms.). I was hoping that Conforto would bail...maybe they can trade him.
BTW, Counsell is staying in the Midwest. He got the Cubs job.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - OutsiderFan - 11-06-2023
(11-06-2023, 01:25 PM)Mick Wrote: BTW, Counsell is staying in the Midwest. He got the Cubs job.
For $8M per year!!!! This is double the next highest paid manager, who I guess was Bob Melvin?
Insane for the Cubs to get a manager from their division, and outbid the Mets. Suggests to me the Cubs are going to win some big free agents. And they already have a better farm system than the Giants.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Giants - 11-06-2023
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1699302311' Wrote: 1699302311[/url]']
BobK dateline='[url=tel:1699298916' Wrote: 1699298916[/url]']
Conforto stays with the Giants
Not surprising. He's overpaid and he knows it. But if he blows it out this year, he might get one more big contract.
Giants currently have the #15 payroll in MLB per Spotrac at $128 mms. Spotrac projects their Total Tax Allocation at $165 mms., with a 2024 Tax of $237 mms. leaving $73 mms. to spend on Ohtani, Yamamoto and others.
Of not inconsiderable concern is the fact that their top six paid players all have gigantic question marks: Haniger ($19 mms.), Conforto ($18 mms.), Ross Stripling ($15 mms.), Anthony DeSclafani ($12 mms.), Taylor Rogers ($12 mms.), and Alex Cobb ($10 mms.). I was hoping that Conforto would bail...maybe they can trade him.
BTW, Counsell is staying in the Midwest. He got the Cubs job.
SF has commitments totaling $45MM in 2025. If they choose to do so, they could exceed the salary cap this year and easily return to “under the cap” status in ‘25, thus avoiding significant penalties. Johnson indicated this is a possible scenario at the Melvin press conference.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Mick - 11-06-2023
(11-06-2023, 03:53 PM)Giants Wrote:Mick dateline='[url=tel:1699302311' Wrote: 1699302311[/url]']
BobK dateline='[url=tel:1699298916' Wrote: 1699298916[/url]']
Conforto stays with the Giants
Not surprising. He's overpaid and he knows it. But if he blows it out this year, he might get one more big contract.
Giants currently have the #15 payroll in MLB per Spotrac at $128 mms. Spotrac projects their Total Tax Allocation at $165 mms., with a 2024 Tax of $237 mms. leaving $73 mms. to spend on Ohtani, Yamamoto and others.
Of not inconsiderable concern is the fact that their top six paid players all have gigantic question marks: Haniger ($19 mms.), Conforto ($18 mms.), Ross Stripling ($15 mms.), Anthony DeSclafani ($12 mms.), Taylor Rogers ($12 mms.), and Alex Cobb ($10 mms.). I was hoping that Conforto would bail...maybe they can trade him.
BTW, Counsell is staying in the Midwest. He got the Cubs job.
SF has commitments totaling $45MM in 2025. If they choose to do so, they could exceed the salary cap this year and easily return to “under the cap” status in ‘25, thus avoiding significant penalties. Johnson indicated this is a possible scenario at the Melvin press conference.
Wouldn't be the world's worst idea to see them trade Conforto and/or Haniger, even if they have to eat some salary. They need speed and quality outfielders. I'd prefer they keep Yaz and Slater. They're the same ages as Confortiger, but cheaper and better. And Slater is homegrown. Until this year, Slater could steal bases. He's 46 of 51 for his career, he slugs .400+ every year, career .345 OBP...and he's a good corner outfielder (CF is not really his expertise...he's best in LF).
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Giants - 11-07-2023
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1699335932' Wrote: 1699335932[/url]']
Giants dateline='[url=tel:1699311232' Wrote: 1699311232[/url]']
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1699302311' Wrote: 1699302311[/url]']
BobK dateline='[url=tel:1699298916' Wrote: 1699298916[/url]']
Conforto stays with the Giants
Not surprising. He's overpaid and he knows it. But if he blows it out this year, he might get one more big contract.
Giants currently have the #15 payroll in MLB per Spotrac at $128 mms. Spotrac projects their Total Tax Allocation at $165 mms., with a 2024 Tax of $237 mms. leaving $73 mms. to spend on Ohtani, Yamamoto and others.
Of not inconsiderable concern is the fact that their top six paid players all have gigantic question marks: Haniger ($19 mms.), Conforto ($18 mms.), Ross Stripling ($15 mms.), Anthony DeSclafani ($12 mms.), Taylor Rogers ($12 mms.), and Alex Cobb ($10 mms.). I was hoping that Conforto would bail...maybe they can trade him.
BTW, Counsell is staying in the Midwest. He got the Cubs job.
SF has commitments totaling $45MM in 2025. If they choose to do so, they could exceed the salary cap this year and easily return to “under the cap” status in ‘25, thus avoiding significant penalties. Johnson indicated this is a possible scenario at the Melvin press conference.
Wouldn't be the world's worst idea to see them trade Conforto and/or Haniger, even if they have to eat some salary. They need speed and quality outfielders. I'd prefer they keep Yaz and Slater. They're the same ages as Confortiger, but cheaper and better. And Slater is homegrown. Until this year, Slater could steal bases. He's 46 of 51 for his career, he slugs .400+ every year, career .345 OBP...and he's a good corner outfielder (CF is not really his expertise...he's best in LF).
Trade any or all of the current OFs - too old and too brittle - SF needs to find some outfielders who are capable of playing 140+ games, play above average defense and, of course, be a threat at the plate. None of the incumbents meet that description.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - lex24 - 11-07-2023
Giants dateline='[url=tel:1699341493' Wrote: 1699341493[/url]']
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1699335932' Wrote: 1699335932[/url]']
Giants dateline='[url=tel:1699311232' Wrote: 1699311232[/url]']
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1699302311' Wrote: 1699302311[/url]']
BobK dateline='[url=tel:1699298916' Wrote: 1699298916[/url]']
Conforto stays with the Giants
Not surprising. He's overpaid and he knows it. But if he blows it out this year, he might get one more big contract.
Giants currently have the #15 payroll in MLB per Spotrac at $128 mms. Spotrac projects their Total Tax Allocation at $165 mms., with a 2024 Tax of $237 mms. leaving $73 mms. to spend on Ohtani, Yamamoto and others.
Of not inconsiderable concern is the fact that their top six paid players all have gigantic question marks: Haniger ($19 mms.), Conforto ($18 mms.), Ross Stripling ($15 mms.), Anthony DeSclafani ($12 mms.), Taylor Rogers ($12 mms.), and Alex Cobb ($10 mms.). I was hoping that Conforto would bail...maybe they can trade him.
BTW, Counsell is staying in the Midwest. He got the Cubs job.
SF has commitments totaling $45MM in 2025. If they choose to do so, they could exceed the salary cap this year and easily return to “under the cap” status in ‘25, thus avoiding significant penalties. Johnson indicated this is a possible scenario at the Melvin press conference.
Wouldn't be the world's worst idea to see them trade Conforto and/or Haniger, even if they have to eat some salary. They need speed and quality outfielders. I'd prefer they keep Yaz and Slater. They're the same ages as Confortiger, but cheaper and better. And Slater is homegrown. Until this year, Slater could steal bases. He's 46 of 51 for his career, he slugs .400+ every year, career .345 OBP...and he's a good corner outfielder (CF is not really his expertise...he's best in LF).
Trade any or all of the current OFs - too old and too brittle - SF needs to find some outfielders who are capable of playing 140+ games, play above average defense and, of course, be a threat at the plate. None of the incumbents meet that description.
First, the good news. Webb one of three CY finalists (Snell and Gallen). Snell probably wins. But he’d be third on my list as he’s essentially a 5 1/3 inning guy. Glad to see Webb get recognition he deserves. He led league in innings, walks per 9 and FIP.
Conforto to me is the bad news. Currently, Giants have theses guys on the 26.
OF. Conforto. Yaz. Haniger. Slater.
Inf. Wade. Flores Estrada. Davis - probably can add Luciano
C Bailey Sabol
That’s 11. And with the exception of Estrada and a healthy Slater. It’s again a ponderous group.
Agree with Mick that either Haniger or Conforto should be traded. Add Davis or Flores to that mix. Reason on both is they essentially are the same players. Haniger/Conforto hit from opposite sides, but both are at best average (I’m in a generous mood) OF’s with little speed. Flores and Davis are corner infielders with below average speed and (again generous here) average defense ability. Both can hit.
Slater’s problem is he’s hurt half the time. In fact, I don’t think he had his legs all last year.
There has to be significant roster moves. Otherwise, another year of below average defense, no speed, with the hope they can hit a slew of HRs. In other words - ‘23 again.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Mick - 11-07-2023
(11-07-2023, 06:57 AM)lex24 Wrote: First, the good news. Webb one of three CY finalists (Snell and Gallen). Snell probably wins. But he’d be third on my list as he’s essentially a 5 1/3 inning guy. Glad to see Webb get recognition he deserves. He led league in innings, walks per 9 and FIP.
Conforto to me is the bad news. Currently, Giants have theses guys on the 26.
OF. Conforto. Yaz. Haniger. Slater.
Inf. Wade. Flores Estrada. Davis - probably can add Luciano
C Bailey Sabol
That’s 11. And with the exception of Estrada and a healthy Slater. It’s again a ponderous group.
Agree with Mick that either Haniger or Conforto should be traded. Add Davis or Flores to that mix. Reason on both is they essentially are the same players. Haniger/Conforto hit from opposite sides, but both are at best average (I’m in a generous mood) OF’s with little speed. Flores and Davis are corner infielders with below average speed and (again generous here) average defense ability. Both can hit.
Slater’s problem is he’s hurt half the time. In fact, I don’t think he had his legs all last year.
There has to be significant roster moves. Otherwise, another year of below average defense, no speed, with the hope they can hit a slew of HRs. In other words - ‘23 again.
Webb also led the league in shutouts with 1 and strikeout/walk ratio. Would be interesting to see him get it. He had four one-run losses this year. He should be 15-9 (like he was in 2022) instead of 11-13. Had the worst run support in MLB, Matt Cain redux. He was 2nd in pitching WAR behind Snell, fourth in ERA and second in WHIP (Snell was ninth in WHIP). The man can pitch. With an offense and defense that would even be middle of the pack, he'd win the Cy Young in a walk.
And W/L record can be overvalued. When Pete Vuckovich won the 1982 Cy Young he had an 18-6 record. He also had a 1.502 WHIP (worst by a Cy Young winner by far), struck out just 105 and gave up 102 walks. Had a 3.34 ERA, sixth in the league. Just 2.8 WAR, half of Webb's 5.6 this year.
Interesting bit of Webb trivia...when he led the league in HBP in the COVID season, he was tied with Zach Wheeler (former Giant) and right behind them was Madison Bumgarner. Two more Giants, Tyler Rogers and Larry Anderson, tied for 10th that year. Must be something in the water...
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Giants - 11-07-2023
Mick and Lex identified one of the biggest problems with baseball in this era…
Webb’s one shutout gives him a tie for the league lead and Snell is the Cy Young favorite despite averaging less than 6 innings per start.
Juan Marichal, where are you? We need your help!