WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - Printable Version
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RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - CowboyIndian - 12-21-2023
cctop dateline='[url=tel:1703013811' Wrote: 1703013811[/url]']
I disdain the USC football program and its fans as much as any other red-blooded American.
But the article's biggest knock against them is underperformance.
I'm 55 years old and their program has had only 5 losing seasons in my lifetime.
Honestly the Holiday Bowl is sounding pretty good right now.
They earned their current (and currently totally undeserved…IMO) rep as the flag bearer of the Pac (and without whom said conference was a B-lister) with John McKay in the 60s. And they WERE good…better than almost everyone. And they remained quite good under John Robinson, although not quite what they’d been. But then there was a whole bunch of mediocrity and less for a long time until Pete Carroll showed up and they became world beaters again. Since “What’s your deal.”, though, they’ve managed a lot of 7-5. This year isn’t really an outlier to me.
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - 2006alum - 12-21-2023
(12-21-2023, 09:52 AM)Mick Wrote: I realize there's a fair amount of disdain on this board vis-a-vis the Mountain West Conference. In basketball, at least, the MWC is 5-0 against the Pac-12 this season, per the Mercury:
- MWC has 4 of the top 40 teams, Pac 12 has 3, WCC has 1
- Collective OOC winning percentages: MWC, 70.1%, Pac-12, 64.9%, WCC, 52%
- Record against the other two conferences: MWC, 19-5, WCC, 12-20, Pac-12, 6-12.
College MBB: Mountain West, not Pac-12, is West's top conference (mercurynews.com)
Honestly, Pac-12 MBB has mostly been wandering through the desert for the past three decades. Last two national champions were Zona in 97 and UCLA in 95 - before that, we're literally talking the Wooden era. Not even joking.
So while I do mourn the loss of our football rivalries, our stronger-than-ever WBB conference, and the many, many Olympics sports our conference dominated in, MBB has been a sore thumb for a long time now.
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - Mick - 12-21-2023
(12-21-2023, 10:51 AM)2006alum Wrote:(12-21-2023, 09:52 AM)Mick Wrote: I realize there's a fair amount of disdain on this board vis-a-vis the Mountain West Conference. In basketball, at least, the MWC is 5-0 against the Pac-12 this season, per the Mercury:
- MWC has 4 of the top 40 teams, Pac 12 has 3, WCC has 1
- Collective OOC winning percentages: MWC, 70.1%, Pac-12, 64.9%, WCC, 52%
- Record against the other two conferences: MWC, 19-5, WCC, 12-20, Pac-12, 6-12.
College MBB: Mountain West, not Pac-12, is West's top conference (mercurynews.com)
Honestly, Pac-12 MBB has mostly been wandering through the desert for the past three decades. Last two national champions were Zona in 97 and UCLA in 95 - before that, we're literally talking the Wooden era. Not even joking.
So while I do mourn the loss of our football rivalries, our stronger-than-ever WBB conference, and the many, many Olympics sports our conference dominated in, MBB has been a sore thumb for a long time now.
I'm hopeful that the ACC's basketball competition helps raise Stanford's game. ACC was the #4 overall ranked conference, Pac-12 was #6.
Stanford was ranked #153 last year, and Cal was ranked #267. AZ, UT, OSU and WSU were in the Top 40, WA and OR were in the 70s, Colorado was 98. All but one of the ACC's teams were ranked higher than Cal, and ironically, that was historic, long time power Louisville. Only Louisville, Notre Dame, Ga Tech were ranked worse than Stanford.
For the ACC in last year's basketball RPI final ranking, Clemson was #2, Syracuse #13, NC State was #24. Pitt, VA and Miami were between #39 and #47, BC and Duke were #63 and #67. Va Tech was #48. UNC, FSU, Wake Forest were between #102 and #137.
RealTimeRPI.com Atlantic Coast Men's College Basketball Rating Percentage Index (RPI) Ratings
RealTimeRPI.com Pacific-12 Men's College Basketball Rating Percentage Index (RPI) Ratings
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - 82lsju - 12-21-2023
Quote:Oregon State and Washington State have come to an agreement in principle with the 10 departing Pac-12 universities that will end ongoing litigation related to control of the conference, the 12 universities announced Thursday.
The agreement comes in the wake of the Washington state Supreme Court's decision last week not to review a lower court's decision that granted control of the Pac-12 board of directors to OSU and WSU.
As part of the agreement, the 10 departing schools will forfeit an undisclosed portion of revenue distributions over the rest of the 2023-24 school year and have provided "specific guarantees against potential future liabilities."
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/39164107/oregon-state-washington-state-settle-departing-pac-12-schools
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - Mick - 12-21-2023
(12-21-2023, 08:02 PM)82lsju Wrote:Quote:Oregon State and Washington State have come to an agreement in principle with the 10 departing Pac-12 universities that will end ongoing litigation related to control of the conference, the 12 universities announced Thursday.
The agreement comes in the wake of the Washington state Supreme Court's decision last week not to review a lower court's decision that granted control of the Pac-12 board of directors to OSU and WSU.
As part of the agreement, the 10 departing schools will forfeit an undisclosed portion of revenue distributions over the rest of the 2023-24 school year and have provided "specific guarantees against potential future liabilities."
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/39164107/oregon-state-washington-state-settle-departing-pac-12-schools
Interesting. In the short term, WSU and OSU are affiliating with the West Coast Conference to host most other sports, including men's and women's basketball. Portland vs. OSU, WSU vs. Gonzaga...league games.
WSU's women's swimming may compete in the MPSF, which is Stanford's conference for MVB, Swimming & Diving, M&W Gymnastics, Fencing, Water Polo, indoor track & field and artistic swimming.
Men's Water Polo - Mountain Pacific Sports Federation
Oregon State, Washington State settle with departing Pac-12 schools
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - Jamesy - 12-21-2023
(12-21-2023, 10:10 PM)Mick Wrote:(12-21-2023, 08:02 PM)82lsju Wrote:Quote:Oregon State and Washington State have come to an agreement in principle with the 10 departing Pac-12 universities that will end ongoing litigation related to control of the conference, the 12 universities announced Thursday.
The agreement comes in the wake of the Washington state Supreme Court's decision last week not to review a lower court's decision that granted control of the Pac-12 board of directors to OSU and WSU.
As part of the agreement, the 10 departing schools will forfeit an undisclosed portion of revenue distributions over the rest of the 2023-24 school year and have provided "specific guarantees against potential future liabilities."
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/39164107/oregon-state-washington-state-settle-departing-pac-12-schools
Interesting. In the short term, WSU and OSU are affiliating with the West Coast Conference to host most other sports, including men's and women's basketball. Portland vs. OSU, WSU vs. Gonzaga...league games.
WSU's women's swimming may compete in the MPSF, which is Stanford's conference for MVB, Swimming & Diving, M&W Gymnastics, Fencing, Water Polo, indoor track & field and artistic swimming.
Men's Water Polo - Mountain Pacific Sports Federation
Oregon State, Washington State settle with departing Pac-12 schools
Swimming and diving and women's gymnastics are both PAC-12 sports at least through this year.
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - Mick - 01-02-2024
Kliavkoff says "It's not my problem, it's your problem."
George Kliavkoff Blames Pac-12 School's Impatience For Conference Collapse
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - jk1926 - 01-02-2024
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1704235490' Wrote: 1704235490[/url]']
Kliavkoff says "It's not my problem, it's your problem."
George Kliavkoff Blames Pac-12 School's Impatience For Conference Collapse
What a clown. He and Larry Scott continuing to draw salaries after putting the conference on a path to destruction is a travesty. If it’s not his problem then OSU and WSU should fire his ass. What purpose does he serve at this point? Who will hire that guy going forward?
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - PalmTree - 01-02-2024
(01-02-2024, 05:25 PM)jk1926 Wrote:Mick dateline='[url=tel:1704235490' Wrote: 1704235490[/url]']
Kliavkoff says "It's not my problem, it's your problem."
George Kliavkoff Blames Pac-12 School's Impatience For Conference Collapse
What a clown. He and Larry Scott continuing to draw salaries after putting the conference on a path to destruction is a travesty. If it’s not his problem then OSU and WSU should fire his ass. What purpose does he serve at this point? Who will hire that guy going forward?
Totally agree - good riddance to him and Scott. AFAIC, the only worthwhile part of the whole article was the link to the clip of Andrej Stojakovic posterizing Krivac in Friday's game.
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - jacket3ree - 01-02-2024
(12-21-2023, 10:38 AM)CowboyIndian Wrote:cctop dateline='[url=tel:1703013811' Wrote: 1703013811[/url]']
I disdain the USC football program and its fans as much as any other red-blooded American.
But the article's biggest knock against them is underperformance.
I'm 55 years old and their program has had only 5 losing seasons in my lifetime.
Honestly the Holiday Bowl is sounding pretty good right now.
They earned their current (and currently totally undeserved…IMO) rep as the flag bearer of the Pac (and without whom said conference was a B-lister) with John McKay in the 60s. And they WERE good…better than almost everyone. And they remained quite good under John Robinson, although not quite what they’d been. But then there was a whole bunch of mediocrity and less for a long time until Pete Carroll showed up and they became world beaters again. Since “What’s your deal.”, though, they’ve managed a lot of 7-5. This year isn’t really an outlier to me.
Hate them all you want and I'll need to take a shower after defending USC, but let's be real, historically they are the conference standard bearer. It's not even close. What a dream to be mediocre like that. I don't understand where your "totally undeserved" comes from other than your hatred for SC. History didn't start when they hired Clay Helton or Lane Kiffin or Steve Sarkisian. That's the fallacy of FSU's love for Oregon State in their dipshit legal argument. A simple measure for the Pac8/10/12 is Rose Bowl appearances. Leave aside the times when the Rose Bowl hosted BCS championships, and USC was in at least one of those.
Pac 8/10/12 Teams Ranked by Rose Bowl Appearances (wins in parentheses):
USC 34 (25)
Stanford 15 (7)
Washington 15 (7)
UCLA 12 (7)
USC is the Pac's historical big dog with apologies to the Huskies. They have more than twice as many Rose Bowl appearances as any other conference team and more than three times the Rose Bowl wins. I get that we could argue for the 12 years prior to this one, which is more than two complete recruiting/petition for a sixth year cycles, and when Stanford went to three Rose Bowls to SC's one, but c'mon.
Stanford 3 (2)
Oregon 2 (2)
USC 1 (1)
Washington 1 (0)
Oh look! Stanford is the football standard bearer for the Pac 12 since 2012, the last five or six years notwithstanding. We'd be laughed out of any room where decisions are made, no matter how stupid the decisions. Right now arguing Stanford is historically better than Washington would be foolish given recency bias, although that would at least have more merit than an argument against USC. I think just about everyone would view the primo Pac teams as USC, then Washington and Oregon in some order after USC. Stanford and UCLA can duke it out for #5 with apologies to Utah. Wait, no apologies to Utah - they are a newbie. UCLA is in LA and useful to USC in that way; Stanford is not; and that was that.
I am willing to listen to arguments otherwise.
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - 2006alum - 01-02-2024
Just to play devil's advocate a bit here, I think there's a reasonable case that Kliavkoff was more the victim of terrible timing, a complacent and naive governing Board (the Pac 12 university presidents/chancellors), and the Big-12 getting the perfect hire at the perfect time.
-Timing: both tech and media retrenched in 2022 after the Fed started raising rates. Pac 12 coming off several terrible years of both football and basketball. If the Pac 12's media deal expired in 2026 and the contract had to be renegotiated by 2025, there'd still be a Pac 12.
-Naive Board. Kliavkoff was ordered to go back to ESPN and counter the $30m offer with $50m. If the university presidents/chancellors had accepted $30m, they'd have matched the Big 12 and Colo et al. wouldn't have fled.
-The Big 12 Presidents are so much scrappier, and they found a Commissioner in Yormark who was their equal: willing to do anything to keep their League alive, including go out and proactively beat the Pac 12 to the punch. Arguably, Kliavkoff should have done the same, and in retrospect, that's clear as day. But I just don't think any of the Pac 12 university Presidents/Chancellors were realistic/scrappy enough.
Was Kliavkoff the hire we needed? In retrospect, clearly not. But I don't think the Board would have hired who, in retrospect, we needed. The same governing board that allowed Larry Scott to fiddle (and count his money) while the Pac 12 burned clearly didn't see how bad their collective position had become.
And honestly, are you surprised? Has anything about MTL and Muir's comportment during the relevant period (negligence related to Shaw's/his assistants' retention, Haase, dropping 11 varsity sports for dubious and easily-refuted reasons) suggested EUTM for securing Stanford Athletics' long-term future.
Knowing what I know about how the Pac-12 was managed, Kliavkoff at best shares blame with the Board.
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - Goose - 01-02-2024
(01-02-2024, 07:01 PM)jacket3ree Wrote: I think just about everyone would view the primo Pac teams as USC, then Washington and Oregon in some order after USC. Stanford and UCLA can duke it out for #5 with apologies to Utah. Wait, no apologies to Utah - they are a newbie. UCLA is in LA and useful to USC in that way; Stanford is not; and that was that.I am completely with you up to this point. If you are going to put USC at the top of the list because of their 34 rose bowl appearances with 25 wins (as you indeed should) you have to look at the entire time period in making your other choices. Oregon doesn't belong in the top 4 if you do that, IMO. Their success is mostly recent, as is some of Stanford's. Recent success is fine, but it is the total body of work you are talking about. The "correct" list is (IMO) USC, Washington, then Stanford and UCLA in some order.
I am willing to listen to arguments otherwise.
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - Mick - 01-13-2024
And speaking of $poiled Children U., reason #11,297 to say good riddance to USC...Caleb Williams and his "camp" (? Where's his camp? San Gabriel Mountains? Sunset Boulevard?) want "assurances" that Chicago is going to trade the #1 pick before he declares for the draft, because he doesn't want to play for Chicago. And no, it's not the same as Elway's situation. Don't want to get drafted by Chicago? Play baseball instead, you yutz...or wait until 2025.
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=898641815249713&set=a.614152457031985
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - M T - 03-26-2024
The settlement (paywall)
https://www.mercurynews.com/2024/03/26/pac-12-legal-affairs-what-the-negotiated-settlement-means-for-wsu-osu-and-the-10-departing-members/
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - StanfordMatt - 03-26-2024
And right on cue, WSU’s AD bolts for UW lol.
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - Mick - 11-11-2024
(12-21-2023, 10:38 AM)CowboyIndian Wrote:cctop dateline='[url=tel:1703013811' Wrote: 1703013811[/url]']
I disdain the USC football program and its fans as much as any other red-blooded American.
But the article's biggest knock against them is underperformance.
I'm 55 years old and their program has had only 5 losing seasons in my lifetime.
Honestly the Holiday Bowl is sounding pretty good right now.
They earned their current (and currently totally undeserved…IMO) rep as the flag bearer of the Pac (and without whom said conference was a B-lister) with John McKay in the 60s. And they WERE good…better than almost everyone. And they remained quite good under John Robinson, although not quite what they’d been. But then there was a whole bunch of mediocrity and less for a long time until Pete Carroll showed up and they became world beaters again. Since “What’s your deal.”, though, they’ve managed a lot of 7-5. This year isn’t really an outlier to me.
Robinson just passed, age 89.
John Robinson, former USC football and Rams coach, dies at 89