WBB 2023-2024 Season - Printable Version
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RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - JTM - 01-11-2024
I wonder if Tara is thinking of retiring.
• She will shortly break Coach K’s total wins record. There are not many milestones left.
• The PAC-12 is dissolving. She promoted it and helped build its success, and now it’s gone.
• College basketball isn’t the same with the transfer portal and NIL. Stanford has become an exporter of talent. Importing players will be difficult due to academic requirements.
• Hannah and probably Cameron will be leaving. Does the bench have the talent to replace them?
• She’s 70 years old. Time is becoming limited for other interests and pursuits. Why not go out on top?
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - 82lsju - 01-11-2024
Stanford’s Tara VanDerveer talks doughnuts, a car crash and her historic career
https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/ostler/article/stanford-s-tara-vanderveer-talks-donuts-car-18600927.php
Quote:VanDerveer is an unabashed fan of local pro teams.
“How about the 49ers? I have to say, I love watching them, and I don’t even like football. I won’t ever watch a football game (other than the 49ers), I don’t like what college football has done to the other sports, so I’m not going to support big-time football. I can’t wait for USC to get beat next year.
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - BobK - 01-11-2024
Interesting as I've seen Tara at Stanford football
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - WBB fan - 01-11-2024
(01-11-2024, 02:55 PM)82lsju Wrote: Stanford’s Tara VanDerveer talks doughnuts, a car crash and her historic career
https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/ostler/article/stanford-s-tara-vanderveer-talks-donuts-car-18600927.php
Quote:VanDerveer is an unabashed fan of local pro teams.
“How about the 49ers? I have to say, I love watching them, and I don’t even like football. I won’t ever watch a football game (other than the 49ers), I don’t like what college football has done to the other sports, so I’m not going to support big-time football. I can’t wait for USC to get beat next year.
I'm with her on not liking what football does to other sports, nor what football does to so many who play it, both physically and psychologically. I used to enjoy going to games, but haven't at all in the past 10 plus years. Not that Stanford is at fault specifically, but I do see football in the Pac-12 generally as having a significant role in the demise of the conference.
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - 82lsju - 01-11-2024
(01-11-2024, 04:15 PM)BobK Wrote: Interesting as I've seen Tara at Stanford football
have you seen her at games in the last 2-3 seasons other than when the WBB is introduced?
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - crackpot - 01-11-2024
(01-11-2024, 04:44 AM)M T Wrote: I’m not sure what confuses you. It is 1200 college head coaching wins. See Wikipedia. (The College Head Coaching Record section) No college wins credited to her in the 1995-96 year.
That other coach has wins credited to him each year since he started.
Yup. He never took a year off. Just dangled the implied promise of being on the Olympic team.
Amy Tucker is Stanford's head coach with the highest winning percentage.
Also, it can be argued, that the year Tara took to serve US Basketball had quite an impact on recruiting for a decade. She left a team that was in the Final Four almost every year and came back to a team that wouldn't see it for another dozen.
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - Maple Leaf - 01-13-2024
Iowa State 66-63 Baylor (Jan 13, 2024) Final Score - ESPN
Baylor ranked #4 at the start of the game.
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - Spiny_Norman - 01-14-2024
UCLA at USC in a rematch of the game at Pauley two weeks ago which UCLA won. Rayah Marshall out sick for the Trojans. Lauren Betts reported as "not starting" for the Bruins. But she comes in as the first substitute.
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - crackpot - 01-14-2024
Ann Killion's column says that Tara is planning on coaching in the ACC: https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/annkillion/article/tara-vanderveer-s-record-pursuit-pauses-legacy-18608063.php?utm_campaign=CMS%20Sharing%20Tools%20(Premium)&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral
Watching the UCLA @ U$C game, it's the first time I've seen a foul, nevermind an intentional foul, caused by someone's hair.
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - WBB fan - 01-14-2024
(01-14-2024, 04:29 PM)crackpot Wrote: Ann Killion's column says that Tara is planning on coaching in the ACC: https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/annkillion/article/tara-vanderveer-s-record-pursuit-pauses-legacy-18608063.php?utm_campaign=CMS%20Sharing%20Tools%20(Premium)&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral
Watching the UCLA @ U$C game, it's the first time I've seen a foul, nevermind an intentional foul, caused by someone's hair.
First, UCLA/USC game over, USC wins 73-65. Now only one undefeated team in Pac-12: Colorado, with 3 tied behind with one loss: UCLA / Stanford / USC. What a conference.
Second, great column by Killion. I love her work. And she of all people -- a female sports-writer/columnist -- understands the odds that Tara has had to battle for recognition and opportunity. Both are now highly respected for what they do and have done, but as Killion notes re Tara, it wasn't always so. An article in the Merc today notes that Tara first met Coach K in 1992 at the White House when Stanford and Duke were being honored for the natties, and Coach K thought it would be helpful to explain to Tara what it was all about. She told him that she'd been there before. Good for her, and though the article didn't say it, sounded to me as if Coach K was being very condescending, not at all respectful of Tara and the women's game. (Wish I could share that article, don't have a Merc subscription, saw it when it came up on my phone feed.). Re Killion's article, interesting comments at the end about Geno coming along. behind Tara, good perspective there.
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - Spiny_Norman - 01-14-2024
The referees in the USC-UCLA game (Bob Scofield, Teresa Turner, In'Fini Robinson) called 55 fouls, 32 on UCLA and 23 on USC. I don't know how many UCLA fouls were committed on Watkins, but it must have been a lot of them. She shot 16 FTs and made them all.
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - CompSci87 - 01-14-2024
(01-14-2024, 04:29 PM)crackpot Wrote: Watching the UCLA @ U$C game, it's the first time I've seen a foul, nevermind an intentional foul, caused by someone's hair.I didn't see that -- sounds worth checking out.
"Intentional" is such a misnomer for what NBA and (IIRC) formerly NCAA WBB call a "flagrant 1" foul. Whether the foul is in that category doesn't depend on whether the player intended to foul or not.
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - BillBradley - 01-15-2024
(01-14-2024, 08:44 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote: The referees in the USC-UCLA game (Bob Scofield, Teresa Turner, In'Fini Robinson) called 55 fouls, 32 on UCLA and 23 on USC. I don't know how many UCLA fouls were committed on Watkins, but it must have been a lot of them. She shot 16 FTs and made them all.I DVR'd the game and was looking forward to watching it last night. Turned out to be unwatchable. A bad AAU basketball game would have been more entertaining. Osborne gets it, goes 1 on 3, throws body into defenders, goes to line. Inbound to Juju, goes 1 on 3, throws body into defenders, goes to line. Inbound to Rice, throws up some bad shot, foul on rebound. Inbound to Juju, doubled by 2 USC players, foul. A large and pumped up crowd turned out to watch two top womens basketball teams play in LA and they get treated to a 54 free throw night. Blecchhh.
At least from this game (the only time I've watched UCLA play so take it with a grain of salt), I can't imagine Lauren Betts is enjoying playing for this team. In her 27 minutes, her teammates passed the ball to her around 5 times. She spent her time running back and forth between the top of the key as Rice, Osborne, and Jones just motored around and jacked shots. There certainly wasn't much focus on her as a threat down low.
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - Maple Leaf - 01-15-2024
(01-15-2024, 11:03 AM)BillBradley Wrote:(01-14-2024, 08:44 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote: The referees in the USC-UCLA game (Bob Scofield, Teresa Turner, In'Fini Robinson) called 55 fouls, 32 on UCLA and 23 on USC. I don't know how many UCLA fouls were committed on Watkins, but it must have been a lot of them. She shot 16 FTs and made them all.I DVR'd the game and was looking forward to watching it last night. Turned out to be unwatchable. A bad AAU basketball game would have been more entertaining. Osborne gets it, goes 1 on 3, throws body into defenders, goes to line. Inbound to Juju, goes 1 on 3, throws body into defenders, goes to line. Inbound to Rice, throws up some bad shot, foul on rebound. Inbound to Juju, doubled by 2 USC players, foul. A large and pumped up crowd turned out to watch two top womens basketball teams play in LA and they get treated to a 54 free throw night. Blecchhh.
At least from this game (the only time I've watched UCLA play so take it with a grain of salt), I can't imagine Lauren Betts is enjoying playing for this team. In her 27 minutes, her teammates passed the ball to her around 5 times. She spent her time running back and forth between the top of the key as Rice, Osborne, and Jones just motored around and jacked shots. There certainly wasn't much focus on her as a threat down low.
According to a write up in the Athletic Betts was under the weather, but so was USC's center, so that maybe why she did not play more, but could be some comfort in the NIL for UCLA's WBB.
triangle2 - triangle2 - 01-15-2024
(01-14-2024, 08:44 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote: The referees in the USC-UCLA game (Bob Scofield, Teresa Turner, In'Fini Robinson) called 55 fouls, 32 on UCLA and 23 on USC. I don't know how many UCLA fouls were committed on Watkins, but it must have been a lot of them. She shot 16 FTs and made them all.
Wasn’t it about 15 years ago when widespread disgust and derision was directed at the Pac refs because of the touch foul calls? Teams had to play soft inside and the result was disaster at tournament time when the “let them play” officiating style meant early exits for Pac teams that couldn’t adjust. Coaches complained, as I recall, and it seemed like there was some level of ‘adjustment’ that led to significantly more physicality inside for in-conference play.
We’re at another crossroads moment with officiating just as the conference is ending. Now, the problem areas seem to be: (1) inconsistency in how offensive fouls get called, particularly moving screens/picks; (2) defending players who have been coached to sell offensive fouls; (3) a return of the old ASU style face guarding defense that essentially dares the refs to call the reach-ins, the holds and grabs.
It’s pretty interesting to watch the association, where moving screens get called every other weekend or so. Moving screens for the men’s pro game are like palming the ball. Once in the 50’s you called that. Not anymore, because teams use screens all the time, setting up the pick and roll, and the offensive sets that use a high ball screen to get the ‘right’ defender on your primary scorer.
So, one problem with trying to run a good offense in the Pac-12 that relies on repeated screening: you’re giving Infini Robinson or Chuck, or Missy way too much control over whether your team wins. If you’re coaching, can you risk Brink picking up a moving screen call in the first half if it means she heads to the bench for 10 minutes? Some teams have big wide-body players who are in just to set screens and rebound. We unfortunately have two bigs who also are primary scoring options.
RE: triangle2 - BillBradley - 01-15-2024
(01-15-2024, 01:49 PM)triangle2 Wrote:Great post. Sprinting to the screen spot can create advantage, because you can get the helper out of position. But Cam/Kiki never do that. Instead, they slowly move to their spot. You'll see our guards wait, then begin their move only after Cam/Kiki have been standing there for a bit. It makes the screening way less effective.(01-14-2024, 08:44 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote: The referees in the USC-UCLA game (Bob Scofield, Teresa Turner, In'Fini Robinson) called 55 fouls, 32 on UCLA and 23 on USC. I don't know how many UCLA fouls were committed on Watkins, but it must have been a lot of them. She shot 16 FTs and made them all.
Wasn’t it about 15 years ago when widespread disgust and derision was directed at the Pac refs because of the touch foul calls? Teams had to play soft inside and the result was disaster at tournament time when the “let them play” officiating style meant early exits for Pac teams that couldn’t adjust. Coaches complained, as I recall, and it seemed like there was some level of ‘adjustment’ that led to significantly more physicality inside for in-conference play.
We’re at another crossroads moment with officiating just as the conference is ending. Now, the problem areas seem to be: (1) inconsistency in how offensive fouls get called, particularly moving screens/picks; (2) defending players who have been coached to sell offensive fouls; (3) a return of the old ASU style face guarding defense that essentially dares the refs to call the reach-ins, the holds and grabs.
It’s pretty interesting to watch the association, where moving screens get called every other weekend or so. Moving screens for the men’s pro game are like palming the ball. Once in the 50’s you called that. Not anymore, because teams use screens all the time, setting up the pick and roll, and the offensive sets that use a high ball screen to get the ‘right’ defender on your primary scorer.
So, one problem with trying to run a good offense in the Pac-12 that relies on repeated screening: you’re giving Infini Robinson or Chuck, or Missy way too much control over whether your team wins. If you’re coaching, can you risk Brink picking up a moving screen call in the first half if it means she heads to the bench for 10 minutes? Some teams have big wide-body players who are in just to set screens and rebound. We unfortunately have two bigs who also are primary scoring options.
The pro game, and even the college men's game, are officiated in a way that's way better for both the fans and the teams themselves. The old axiom that "a foul is a foul, regardless of what type of foul, who committed it or when it was committed" has been put out to pasture. The goal in those leagues isn't to maximize rule enforcement. It's to administer a fair game, which can be accomplished without blowing your whistle every 15 seconds. The P12 womens refs can't wait to blow their whistle, just itching, looking for every opportunity. No consideration paid to number of fouls called, game flow, or top players. But for some reason they refuse to issue any flop warnings!
RE: triangle2 - M T - 01-15-2024
(01-15-2024, 01:49 PM)triangle2 Wrote: We’re at another crossroads moment with officiating just as the conference is ending. Now, the problem areas seem to be: (1) inconsistency in how offensive fouls get called, particularly moving screens/picks; (2) defending players who have been coached to sell offensive fouls; (3) a return of the old ASU style face guarding defense that essentially dares the refs to call the reach-ins, the holds and grabs.
It’s pretty interesting to watch the association, where moving screens get called every other weekend or so. Moving screens for the men’s pro game are like palming the ball. Once in the 50’s you called that. Not anymore, because teams use screens all the time, setting up the pick and roll, and the offensive sets that use a high ball screen to get the ‘right’ defender on your primary scorer.
So, one problem with trying to run a good offense in the Pac-12 that relies on repeated screening: you’re giving Infini Robinson or Chuck, or Missy way too much control over whether your team wins. If you’re coaching, can you risk Brink picking up a moving screen call in the first half if it means she heads to the bench for 10 minutes? Some teams have big wide-body players who are in just to set screens and rebound. We unfortunately have two bigs who also are primary scoring options.
I disagree. Is your preference that every ref calls what they think you want them to call, or perhaps you really do want uniformity in calls, and for that to be codified so the refs in Hoboken at least have the same rules as the refs in Los Angeles. The FIBA game is different than the NBA game is different than the WNBA game is different than the men's NCAA game is different than the women's NCAA game.
Have you read the NCAA Women's Basketball Rules? It is free to download.
(I like the fact that they highlight RULE changes from year to year.)
I call your attention to Points of Emphasis:
- Enforcing the rules as written
- Screening
- Traveling
- Legal guarding position
- Post play/Three seconds in the lane
- Contact on and by the ball handler/dribbler
- Sporting behavior/conduct
I'll leave those as teasers, hoping people will actually look at them. But I will quote one part
Quote:Officials are tasked with ensuring that the competing teams play within the
rules because the rules basically guarantee fair play to the end that no player
and neither team gains an unfair advantage over an opponent. When officials do
not enforce the playing rules, it impacts the purpose of the playing rules. There
is no room for personal philosophies or using “game management” to ignore
enforcing a playing rule. Likewise, the enforcement of a playing rule is never a
"game interrupter"
I believe we are all familiar with the feeling that OUR team is trying to play by the rules while THEIR team is trying to skirt the rules and get away with what they can.
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - M T - 01-15-2024
(01-14-2024, 04:29 PM)crackpot Wrote: Watching the UCLA @ U$C game, it's the first time I've seen a foul, nevermind an intentional foul, caused by someone's hair.Were you referring to Q3 9:25? That's an elbow by the USC player Akunwafo swinging it up into Betts's chin and then down again.
Unless you were making some kind of joke I don't understand, I can't see how you thought it was hair. The hair moved slower than the rotation; the elbow was faster.
As I read the rules, it was a textbook disqualifying foul. Yes, Betts was holding both Akunwafo's arms from behind before that, but Akunwafo swung the elbow faster than her body turned just like throwing a punch (so her swinging of the elbow was not part of a whole body movement).
Excessive makes it an intentional foul. Extreme makes it a disqualifying foul.
Quote:Art. 7. The following shall be considered not only excessive, but extreme, swinging:
a. When arm(s) and elbow(s) are swung about while using the shoulders as
pivots, and the speed of the extended arm(s) and elbow(s) exceeds that of
the rest of the body as it rotates on the hips or on the pivot foot;
If you watch the live sequence (slightly before my link above) at 1/4 speed, you will see Akunwafo, after she has the ball and is bent over, turn slightly to her left and bump into Betts, she then turns back to the right a bit and then explodes back to the left and up with her body, swinging her right elbow from behind the line of her body, up to her own eye level and into Betts's chin, and finishing up with her elbow in front of the line of her body. Her elbows were swung faster than her body. Indeed, when you add to the rotational speed, the fact that she swung her elbow up about 3 feet, her elbow was going quite fast when she caught Betts in the face. Watch her footwork. She takes her weight, originally centered on two feet, into the impact, with all her weight on her left leg.
Even if she hadn't swung faster than her body, aiming for Bett's face could be, by judgement, extreme.
That foul was extreme, by rule. She should have been disqualified.
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - joemontes - 01-15-2024
I am really looking forward to Stanford's home games vs #5 UCLA and #6 USC
during the first weekend of Feb. Frankly, I have no idea how either of these two games
will go. But that's back-to-back games:
vs USC and #1 overall recruit from 2023 (Juju WATKINS) and her entourage
of former Ivy League standouts (FORBES, PADILLA, DAVIS), then
vs UCLA and the #1 and #2 overall recruits from 2022 (BETTS and RICE)
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - WBB fan - 01-16-2024
From this morning's (1/16) SF Chron -- article about the need for Stanford to expand the offensive production
https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/college/article/stanford-women-enough-offense-make-deep-tourney-18598745.php?utm_source=marketing&utm_medium=copy-url-link&utm_campaign=article-share&hash=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuc2ZjaHJvbmljbGUuY29tL3Nwb3J0cy9jb2xsZWdlL2FydGljbGUvc3RhbmZvcmQtd29tZW4tZW5vdWdoLW9mZmVuc2UtbWFrZS1kZWVwLXRvdXJuZXktMTg1OTg3NDUucGhw&time=MTcwNTQyNzI3ODE0OA%3D%3D&rid=M2MxMjcwMWMtZmVlNS00MjQzLWE4MDYtMDkyOTI3OGZiYjY3&sharecount=NA%3D%3D