Outside Topic OT: Giants 2023 thread - Printable Version
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RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - cardcrimson - 04-25-2023
(04-24-2023, 10:17 PM)Leftcoast Wrote:(04-24-2023, 04:24 PM)Mick Wrote: Thirdly, a trivia question of sorts. What was the Giants' best draft in a calendar year?
I'm not sure which single year had the best draft class but picking Lincecum, Bumgarner, and Posey in back-to-back-to-back years is hard to beat. (2006-2008 drafts).
Zack Wheeler in 2009 has also done well, just not for the Giants. (Philly and NYM)
"On July 28, 2011, the San Francisco Giants made a trade that could have been the worst in the team's long history. Desperate to make up for the loss of Buster Posey to injury, the Giants traded Zack Wheeler, their top pitching prospect, to the Mets for veteran outfielder Carlos Beltran."
from the Beyond Chron blog. Almost as bad as Cepeda for Sadecki.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - BobK - 04-25-2023
George Foster for Frank Duffy and some pitcher the worst ever. Yes Duffy hit a long HR off Phogge at Stanford
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 04-25-2023
(04-24-2023, 10:17 PM)Leftcoast Wrote:(04-24-2023, 04:24 PM)Mick Wrote: Thirdly, a trivia question of sorts. What was the Giants' best draft in a calendar year?
I'm not sure which single year had the best draft class but picking Lincecum, Bumgarner, and Posey in back-to-back-to-back years is hard to beat. (2006-2008 drafts).
Zack Wheeler in 2009 has also done well, just not for the Giants. (Philly and NYM)
They got Romo in 2005. 2004 was a bad draft, but 10 of their selections in 2003 made the majors, including Nate Schierholtz, David Aardsma and Brian Wilson in 2003. But their best selection was their #49 overall pick, a guy named Doug Fister. Fister ended up in Seattle and played 10 years in MLB, with a 3.72 ERA as a starter. 19.4 career WAR.
Maybe...technically speaking...SF's best draft was 1982. They drafted both Barry Bonds ands Pete Incaviglia. Incaviglia hit 206 HRs, mostly for Texas Rangers, and Barry...well, you know.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Leftcoast - 04-25-2023
Wasn’t Bonds a Pirate draft pick? Giants acquired him Mid-career in a brobdingnagian free agent deal unless there is a backstory I don’t know?
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - BobK - 04-25-2023
Bonds was drafted by the Giants then went to ASU
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 04-25-2023
(04-25-2023, 08:40 PM)BobK Wrote: Bonds was drafted by the Giants then went to ASU
The story is that SF made an offer. Bonds wanted 5K more, the Giants wouldn’t budge, Bonds walked away and went to ASU. Whether that is apocryphal, I don’t know…..
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Chupacabra - 04-25-2023
I'll die on the hill that the Wheeler trade was not a bad trade. Wheeler was only "pretty good" with the mets and never got a Cy Young vote until after his years of team control were over. Carlos Beltran went on an absolute tear after the trade and in his time with the Giants had a higher OPS than any Buster Posey season besides his MVP year. The crime was not offering Beltran a contract after the season, not the trade itself.
The worse trade was Bryan Reynolds for McCutchen. They literally traded the guy they needed for an average (formerly great) player.
(04-25-2023, 07:02 AM)cardcrimson Wrote: "On July 28, 2011, the San Francisco Giants made a trade that could have been the worst in the team's long history. Desperate to make up for the loss of Buster Posey to injury, the Giants traded Zack Wheeler, their top pitching prospect, to the Mets for veteran outfielder Carlos Beltran."
from the Beyond Chron blog. Almost as bad as Cepeda for Sadecki.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - old spanish trail - 04-25-2023
I was going to send Kapler to the woodshed for playing the infield in with Goldshmit at the plate.. Much better chance the hard hitter grounds into a DP than that he hits a slow grounder.
Sabol somehow washes that away with a 2 out, 2 strike, 2 run walk off homer.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 04-25-2023
(04-25-2023, 09:51 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: I was going to send Kapler to the woodshed for playing the infield in with Goldshmit at the plate.. Much better chance the hard hitter grounds into a DP than that he hits a slow grounder.
Sabol somehow washes that away with a 2 out, 2 strike, 2 run walk off homer.
Yaz and Sabol both with two hits. Yaz had HR and 2B...he's on a tear, batting .291., OPS now .850. St. Louis had three errors, although the last one, a 100 mph+ shot off of the second baseman was just a brutal call. And Estrada got a hit, stole a base, and raced home when the overthrow to second got to the outfield and the CF dropped the ball.
This was one of those games pitched by committee. Giants started Brebbia and used eight pitchers. Doval had a rough outing. Ty Rogers got a hold, his ERA is 0.68. Hjelle got the win, he's 1-0.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 04-25-2023
Another HR for Bailey. He’s batting .333 with an OPS of .881
Stay healthy, Patrick……..
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 04-25-2023
(04-25-2023, 09:19 PM)Chupacabra Wrote: I'll die on the hill that the Wheeler trade was not a bad trade. Wheeler was only "pretty good" with the mets and never got a Cy Young vote until after his years of team control were over. Carlos Beltran went on an absolute tear after the trade and in his time with the Giants had a higher OPS than any Buster Posey season besides his MVP year. The crime was not offering Beltran a contract after the season, not the trade itself.
The worse trade was Bryan Reynolds for McCutchen. They literally traded the guy they needed for an average (formerly great) player.
(04-25-2023, 07:02 AM)cardcrimson Wrote: "On July 28, 2011, the San Francisco Giants made a trade that could have been the worst in the team's long history. Desperate to make up for the loss of Buster Posey to injury, the Giants traded Zack Wheeler, their top pitching prospect, to the Mets for veteran outfielder Carlos Beltran."
from the Beyond Chron blog. Almost as bad as Cepeda for Sadecki.
Reynolds just signed with the Pirates, 8 years, $106.75 mms.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 04-25-2023
(04-25-2023, 10:39 PM)Mick Wrote:(04-25-2023, 09:19 PM)Chupacabra Wrote: I'll die on the hill that the Wheeler trade was not a bad trade. Wheeler was only "pretty good" with the mets and never got a Cy Young vote until after his years of team control were over. Carlos Beltran went on an absolute tear after the trade and in his time with the Giants had a higher OPS than any Buster Posey season besides his MVP year. The crime was not offering Beltran a contract after the season, not the trade itself.
The worse trade was Bryan Reynolds for McCutchen. They literally traded the guy they needed for an average (formerly great) player.
(04-25-2023, 07:02 AM)cardcrimson Wrote: "On July 28, 2011, the San Francisco Giants made a trade that could have been the worst in the team's long history. Desperate to make up for the loss of Buster Posey to injury, the Giants traded Zack Wheeler, their top pitching prospect, to the Mets for veteran outfielder Carlos Beltran."
from the Beyond Chron blog. Almost as bad as Cepeda for Sadecki.
Reynolds just signed with the Pirates, 8 years, $106.75 mms.
A steal for the Pirates….
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 04-26-2023
(04-25-2023, 07:59 AM)BobK Wrote: George Foster for Frank Duffy and some pitcher the worst ever. Yes Duffy hit a long HR off Phogge at Stanford
Foster for Duffy
Perry and Duffy for McDowell
Cepeda for Sadecki
All considerably worse.
Speaking of trades Zaidi deserves a lot of credit for stealing JD Davis (along with 3 pitchers (Thomas Szarpucki, Nick Zwack and Carson Seymour) all of whom have a shot of pitching in SF. Szarpucki already has but he’s out with elbow issue) for Darrin Ruf.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 04-26-2023
(04-25-2023, 11:18 PM)Giants Wrote:(04-25-2023, 10:39 PM)Mick Wrote:(04-25-2023, 09:19 PM)Chupacabra Wrote: I'll die on the hill that the Wheeler trade was not a bad trade. Wheeler was only "pretty good" with the mets and never got a Cy Young vote until after his years of team control were over. Carlos Beltran went on an absolute tear after the trade and in his time with the Giants had a higher OPS than any Buster Posey season besides his MVP year. The crime was not offering Beltran a contract after the season, not the trade itself.
The worse trade was Bryan Reynolds for McCutchen. They literally traded the guy they needed for an average (formerly great) player.
(04-25-2023, 07:02 AM)cardcrimson Wrote: "On July 28, 2011, the San Francisco Giants made a trade that could have been the worst in the team's long history. Desperate to make up for the loss of Buster Posey to injury, the Giants traded Zack Wheeler, their top pitching prospect, to the Mets for veteran outfielder Carlos Beltran."
from the Beyond Chron blog. Almost as bad as Cepeda for Sadecki.
Reynolds just signed with the Pirates, 8 years, $106.75 mms.
A steal for the Pirates….
Incredibly good deal for the Pirates. His stats look like Yaz's this year, so far. He was an All Star in 2021. What's sad is that is the biggest deal the Pirates have ever done, by far. Eclipsed last year's 8 year/$70 mms. deal for their 3rd baseman.
Only the A's, White Sox and Royals have never had a $100 mms.+ contract
Some fun facts:
1) Giants are 15th in MLB in payroll at $153,553,750.
2) Giants are 13th in MLB in attendance/game at 29,799 per game.
3) Kapler is 4th in MLB at percentage of challenges won (6 of 9, 2/3rds).
4) Giants have the fifth oldest batters and 4th oldest pitchers in MLB.
5) Giants are MLB average in scoring (4.52 runs per game), but 4th in HRs (36).
6) Giant batters are first in all of MLB in strikeouts (245) and just under MLB average in OBP at .316 and over average in OPS at .728.
7) Giant pitchers are 22nd in fewest runs allowed, but 16th in ERA. Why? Because...
8) Bad fielding. Again. Giants are 27th in Rtot (-12). Their best position player by Rtot rating is Joey Bart (0), and Brandon Crawford is tied for league worst at -6. Craw and Sabol each have four errors.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - BobK - 04-26-2023
Giants came from behind to win. Now have won 4 in a row.
Just 2 1/2 games out of first.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 04-26-2023
SF payroll per Spotrac…
Active payroll $151.1MM
Injured list $20.8MM
Retained $10.8MM
Buried minor salaries $1.3MM
Total Active Payroll. $184.0MM. (11th in MLB)
2023 Luxury tax threshold. $233.0MM
Total AAV/Tax Payroll $202.0MM
Est. Benefits $16.5MM
Est. Minor Salaries. $2.3MM
Total Tax Allocation $220.8MM.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - skip75 - 04-26-2023
(04-25-2023, 09:51 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: I was going to send Kapler to the woodshed for playing the infield in with Goldshmit at the plate.. Much better chance the hard hitter grounds into a DP than that he hits a slow grounder.When Goldschmidt was up, there were runners at 2nd & 3rd, so a run would score on a ground ball with the IF back. Seems to me the only alternative to playing the IF in would have been an intentional walk to load the bases. Probably a reasonable alternative, but I suppose that analytics would have rejected that idea with the LH Gorman on deck.
Sabol somehow washes that away with a 2 out, 2 strike, 2 run walk off homer.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - old spanish trail - 04-26-2023
In general, I agree with you. However, wasn't there one out? Goes against convention, but my thought was, Goldshmit hits the ball hard with regularity, and he was a better bet to hit it hard enuf for a double play than a slow grounder. Turns out he did hit it hard, too hard for Crawford to handle in his "in" position, but would have been a dp if he were in dp position.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - skip75 - 04-26-2023
Yes - 1 out. But no runner at first, so if Crawford is back, there is no 6-4-3 possibility.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - DC 86 - 04-26-2023
(04-24-2023, 04:24 PM)Mick Wrote: I'd be curious to know what impact SF's low draft order had on their draft outcomes. SF has been mostly successful to very successful the past 15 years. I imagine that SFG has selected very far back in the draft during that time.
The Dodgers haven't drafted higher than 15th since 2006, yet they have consistently been ranked as the best (or one of the best) farm systems in MLB. Meanwhile in that same time frame the Giants have had six top-ten picks.
Yes, 14 and 15 years ago the Giants drafted Zach Wheeler and Buster Posey. But if you only go back 13 years (instead of the convenient 15) it's far from "mostly successful" and definitely not "very successful". Adam Duvall, Joe Panik, Matt Duffy, Tyler Rogers, Logan Webb and Bryan Reynolds are the only draftees with over 5 career bWAR so far.
(04-24-2023, 06:34 PM)Giants Wrote:(04-24-2023, 05:14 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I had a lot of hope Farhan's regime would turn around the farm system and make it one of the best in MLB. Hasn't happened. Time to clean house and prioritize the farm system in a way the Giants never have and that their CEO says he wants to see.
It is too soon to fully assess Zaidi’s drafts. His first draft (19) doesn’t look too good. However, his 20 could be the best in MLB that year. And the 21 and 22 groups are too new to rate (I really like Wisenhunt).
The problem right now is the Bobby Evans drafts were well below average and those are the years that should have produced young major league talent by this time.
Strongly agree, too early to draw conclusions. The brutal period right before Zaidi was appointed is what has hurt the franchise. The Giants are almost never going to draft in the top-5, so missing when they had the #2 overall pick hurts a lot, and Bart was not drafted by the current regime, even though some people are under that impression.