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Re: Free tuition - Rally - 04-13-2015

Thoughts?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/05/opinion/sunday/the-real-reason-college-tuition-costs-so-much.html?WT.mc_id=2015-APRIL-FACEBOOK-PROPENSITY_OPINION-AUD_DEV-0401-0430&WT.mc_ev=click&ad-keywords=AUDDEVAPRIL&_r=1

Re: Free tuition - BostonCard - 04-13-2015

I think it is generally accurate.  Costs have gone up largely because of increases in administrative expenses.

One reason not mentioned was Baumol's cost disease:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol%27s_cost_disease

Basically, productivity in higher education has not increased all that much.  Maybe with the advent of MOOCs it will.  But while productivity has dramatically improved in many fields, education is a laggard.

BC

Re: Free tuition - CornFed - 04-13-2015

(04-13-2015, 11:28 AM)Yvonne link Wrote:Perhaps, city council meetings are a poor place to get college information. You should have talked to your guidance counselor at school.

My "guidance" counselor in high school was so impressed with my portfolio (which in fact was sufficient to be accepted by the greatest university on Earth), that she informed me that I would have no trouble getting into Iowa OR Iowa State (as if there were any meaningful difference).  Imagine that.  Could I be so freakin' lucky?  Thank God I had a mother who was significantly more worldly.

Re: Free tuition - Nan3cy - 04-13-2015

A plurality of the kids who went to college from my high school went to the Univ. of Wisconsin (since it was just across town). My guidance counselor thought UW was not the right place to me, but Stanford never occurred to her. She thought an exciting place for me to go might be Beloit College.

Interestingly, there were three of us from my high school class who went to Stanford. (We had all graduated from the same 34-student 8th grade class four years before, too.) The high school valedictorian got turned down the next year, I heard. I'm not sure, but I think the next East High grad to go to Stanford was Gabe Jennings, and that was quite a while later.

Re: Free tuition - FarmBoy - 04-14-2015

On a total tangent about local high schools and peculiarities...

My public high school in PA had a terrible track record at Stanford, despite regularly placing ~5% of the graduating class in Ivy League level school. The conventional wisdom was that this was because my school maintained a 93% and above standard for A's (86-92% for B's, etc.) East coast schools were familiar with this peculiarity and therefore would give a bit more leeway on GPAs from applying students but Stanford was less attuned. After years of griping from the parents, the school relented and switched to the more standard 90% and above to receive an A. The first graduating class to operate on this standard sent 5 kids to Stanford (after years of no admissions, even for the kids who got into Harvard, Yale and Princeton). It was admirable that the school was elevating the standards of excellence, but in the end they were essentially limiting college options for the graduating classes. Kind of crazy. I was a brobdingnagian beneficiary of this change. I was a "straight A student" but virtually all of my As were in the 90-92% range (our report cards actually listed the % rather than the grades even though what was sent to college was apparently just the letter grades).

Re: Free tuition - CTcard - 04-14-2015

(04-14-2015, 07:22 AM)FarmBoy link Wrote:On a total tangent about local high schools and peculiarities...

... I was a of exceedingly large proportions beneficiary of this change. I was a "straight A student" but virtually all of my As were in the 90-92% range (our report cards actually listed the % rather than the grades even though what was sent to college was apparently just the letter grades).

Well, my high school was confusing to American universities because, first of all, it was called a collegiate which some places seemed to think meant something like a Junior College. More on point, all grades were simply a percentage - even English classes. The concept of letters for grades didn't exist. Not quite sure how Stanford handled that but there were certainly no guidelines from the high school.
[Actually, my understanding is that Stanford was (and is) far more interested in class rank.]

After some years now giving out grades, a few things have become apparent.
One is that there is no possible way a meaningful grade can be given to one part in a hundred. Not even sure about all those pluses and minuses.
A second is that a rigorous number to letter system merely leads to flexible grading of actual assignments.

Re: Free tuition - stupac2 - 04-14-2015

(04-14-2015, 02:38 PM)CTcard link Wrote:[Actually, my understanding is that Stanford was (and is) far more interested in class rank.]

Huh, how does that work? My school didn't do ranks, at least as far as I was aware, and since we didn't weight GPA in any manner it wouldn't really tell you anything. Plus that could result in weird stuff like doing relatively poorly in, say, gym class could hurt your application, even though in any sane world that wouldn't have much, if any, weight at all.

Did anyone here ever actually request your admission file? This has definitely made me more curious about it; I've never really understood why I got in, and the more I think about it the more I'd like to know what exactly put me over the edge. (Though I really doubt I'd be admitted now, amazing that it's a mere 10 years after I was actually admitted.)

Re: Free tuition - washingtonismoney - 04-14-2015

I requested the admissions material, but it's useless now -- the registrar claims they've destroyed the assessments of applications.

Re: Free tuition - Rally - 04-14-2015

(04-14-2015, 03:44 PM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:I requested the admissions material, but it's useless now -- the registrar claims they've destroyed the assessments of applications.

I requested a copy of the file and, even though I provided all info, including alumni number, they said the info was only for students who entered Stanford.  For a few minutes I thought about sending them photos of my BA and MBA but finally thought, F*** it.  I got in, I graduated (twice) and would be shocked if either happened today.  Even then I wondered if someone had stepped on my IBM card with their golf shoe (you youngsters may not get that so just move along.  Nothing to see here.)

Re: Free tuition - Mick - 04-19-2015

(04-13-2015, 01:16 PM)CTcard link Wrote:[quote author=washingtonismoney link=topic=11950.msg116646#msg116646 date=1428954673]
[quote author=CTcard link=topic=11950.msg116644#msg116644 date=1428953619]
The other is buses zipping around all over town, eating up school budgets and determining the start/end times of the school day ... but that is quite another story.

Is there less segregation in Canada? For the US busing, all things being equal, surely reduces school segregation -- which is, of course, bad.
[/quote]
I cannot quite comment on now, been down south of the border for too long. There was less talk about segregation in Canada, and Canadians tended to believe that they had fewer segregation and general race-related problems than did the USA (the States as we would say). That might reflect the less talk as much as actually fewer problems, however.
[/quote]

I can't comment on Canadian segregation, but one of my peers works for a firm in Toronto (all caucasian) that claims they have no diversity related needs or diversity related challenges.  They also lost a seven-figure account with a large American company precisely because they are not a diverse office.

Re: Free tuition - CTcard - 04-20-2015

(04-19-2015, 05:22 AM)Mick link Wrote:I can't comment on Canadian segregation, but one of my peers works for a firm in Toronto (all caucasian) that claims they have no diversity related needs or diversity related challenges.  They also lost a seven-figure account with a large American company precisely because they are not a diverse office.

That's actually rather surprising for Toronto, which as a city is incredibly diverse and apparenty (from visiting) not overly segregated.
http://www.post-gazette.com/newimmigrants/2014/10/19/Toronto-bills-itself-as-the-most-multicultural-city-in-the-world/stories/201409260206



Re: Free tuition - socalstanfan1 - 04-20-2015

Class ranking is definitely something schools look at, at least in the UC system for international students, and perhaps within California as well.. In a school that gives a very high percentage of A grades, it is one way to get a sense of the actual quality of the student and how they rank among their peers. Since the UC system also wants to offer spots in the system to the top 9 percent of students at each California high school, this may be of particularly of interest to their admissions officers, though it looks like the admissions officers also have a way of comparing a student's GPA  with the historical average GPA of their school. I have some knowledge of the International student application process and I know class ranking is highly valued, particularly if the grades being administered by an institution are somewhat suspect. Usually calculated along with SAT and TOEFL scores

Re: Free tuition - Mick - 04-20-2015

(04-20-2015, 02:18 AM)CTcard link Wrote:[quote author=Mick link=topic=11950.msg117007#msg117007 date=1429446121]
I can't comment on Canadian segregation, but one of my peers works for a firm in Toronto (all caucasian) that claims they have no diversity related needs or diversity related challenges.  They also lost a seven-figure account with a large American company precisely because they are not a diverse office.

That's actually rather surprising for Toronto, which as a city is incredibly diverse and apparenty (from visiting) not overly segregated.
http://www.post-gazette.com/newimmigrants/2014/10/19/Toronto-bills-itself-as-the-most-multicultural-city-in-the-world/stories/201409260206
[/quote]

I just checked their web site.  More than 40 attorneys, all Caucasian.

Re: Free tuition - CTcard - 04-20-2015

(04-20-2015, 08:40 AM)Mick link Wrote:I just checked their web site.  More than 40 attorneys, all Caucasian.

Oh I didn't doubt you in any sense, it's just not the look of Toronto these days.

However, Toronto did have the reputation as the source of all traditional, old-guard, anglo-power in the country; home of the loyalists. Or as we called them in the west, damn-loyalists. Perhaps this firm has their roots in that past.

[Loyalists = those who remained loyal to the British crown during the American revolution and were rewarded by the Brits by being given Canada.]

Re: Free tuition - 82lsju - 04-20-2015

(04-14-2015, 03:58 PM)ferrari link Wrote:[quote author=washingtonismoney link=topic=11950.msg116728#msg116728 date=1429051480]
I requested the admissions material, but it's useless now -- the registrar claims they've destroyed the assessments of applications.

I requested a copy of the file and, even though I provided all info, including alumni number, they said the info was only for students who entered Stanford.  For a few minutes I thought about sending them photos of my BA and MBA but finally thought, F*** it.  I got in, I graduated (twice) and would be shocked if either happened today.  Even then I wondered if someone had stepped on my IBM card with their golf shoe (you youngsters may not get that so just move along.  Nothing to see here.)
[/quote]

I have a classmate (class of '82) who they also "could not find evidence of attending".  After a couple of email exchanges they somehow found her file, she's going in the see it soon.

I requested mine, completed the on-line form they sent me and I am now waiting to hear back about when I can see mine, if I get to see it I am curious what it says when they turned me down for freshman admission then accepted me as a sophomore transfer.

Re: Free tuition - BostonCard - 04-20-2015

it must have taken a lot of composure to eat your lunch while men were stripping at your table.  It was probably an interview tactic to see if how well you reacted to uncomfortable situations.  Color me impressed.

BC

Re: Free tuition - CTcard - 04-20-2015

(04-20-2015, 05:28 PM)ferrari link Wrote:Throughout the lunch various men (no women) stripped at our table to say hello to him and I was introduced to each.  We exchanged a few words, then a bite and the next one.  Naive me didn't get it. 

(04-20-2015, 06:22 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:it must have taken a lot of composure to eat your lunch while men were stripping at your table.  It was probably an interview tactic to see if how well you reacted to uncomfortable situations.  Color me impressed.

BC - I admire your restraint. I was about to go for the more off colour response.

Re: Free tuition - 82lsju - 04-20-2015

(04-20-2015, 04:51 PM)garvin link Wrote:I've thought about this. But after all these years, I'd hate to find that somebody I respected and trusted dinged me on a recommendation. It would make me hurt and angry to no purpose. I couldn't even call to yell at them; my guess is none of those people are even alive today.

you can only see the recommendations if you did not agree for them to be confidential when you applied.

Re: Free tuition - BostonCard - 04-20-2015

Sadly it was more lack of inspiration than restraint.  It was a fastball right down the middle of the plate, so I couldn't pass it up.  But there was a better joke to be had there, and I'm sure CowboyIndian would have made more of it had he gotten there first.

BC

Re: Free tuition - g1313 - 04-27-2015

(04-20-2015, 01:12 PM)82lsju link Wrote:[quote author=ferrari link=topic=11950.msg116730#msg116730 date=1429052295]
[quote author=washingtonismoney link=topic=11950.msg116728#msg116728 date=1429051480]
I requested the admissions material, but it's useless now -- the registrar claims they've destroyed the assessments of applications.

I requested a copy of the file and, even though I provided all info, including alumni number, they said the info was only for students who entered Stanford.  For a few minutes I thought about sending them photos of my BA and MBA but finally thought, F*** it.  I got in, I graduated (twice) and would be shocked if either happened today.  Even then I wondered if someone had stepped on my IBM card with their golf shoe (you youngsters may not get that so just move along.  Nothing to see here.)
[/quote]

I have a classmate (class of '82) who they also "could not find evidence of attending".  After a couple of email exchanges they somehow found her file, she's going in the see it soon.

I requested mine, completed the on-line form they sent me and I am now waiting to hear back about when I can see mine, if I get to see it I am curious what it says when they turned me down for freshman admission then accepted me as a sophomore transfer.
[/quote]

To set your expectations, I also requested through the online form and was told that they could mail me a copy of my application, but that none of the accompanying evaluation was kept (I graduated in the mid-2000s). I think you basically have to be a current student for them to still have your evaluations on file.