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Re: Elway - Nan3cy - 10-28-2014

I remember watching him in a game against U$C when he ran around in the backfield for what seemed like  multiple minutes and then threw a touchdown pass from like the 40 yard line while running for his life. Maybe the most amazing play I ever saw a QB make, at least in person. Of course, we lost the game by 3 or 4 touchdowns, but there was that one moment of triumph...


Re: QB Situation for Next Year - DC - 10-28-2014

(10-28-2014, 06:18 AM)FarmBoy link Wrote:
Quote:Correlation vs. causation.  While I think reasonable minds can disagree on Hogan, I don't think looking at his win percentage is particularly instructive for all the same reasons that wins and losses by a starting pitcher are losing significance in baseball.  How would another quarterback fare with a dominant defense and run game churning out NFL draft picks the last two years, plus pass protection that (until this season) rarely broke down and gave all day to throw?  In my humble opinion, this team has been winning the past two seasons with quarterback as the weakest position group on the field, except for the kicking game.

I am cautiously optimistic that Shaw's analysis will be more robust than simply Hogan's win-loss record.

Of course football is a team sports. But win percentage or not, he'll have 30+ games of experience under his belt, career passer rating of more than 140, a better than 2:1 TD to INT ratio, 8+ rushing TDs, etc. He took over the position from a starter with a 7-2 record (yes, behind a dmoninant defense, but still noteworthy) and leapfrogged a recruit who was as highly touted as the player many hear are now clamoring for. He's also played, and won, in some very tough environments. I think Chryst will have to be other-worldly in practice (most likely with the second/string string) and Hogan would have to melt down for Shaw to start weighing Chryst's "potential" against the known commodity which has delivered results. I just don't see it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Hogan apologist (well, perhaps more than many people here), but from what I know of Shaw and what I've seen of Hogan, I really think it's unlikely there will be a change at QB if Hogan chooses to return.

Agreed.  Shaw plays to be respectable, rather than shooting for the stars.

Re: Elway - DC - 10-28-2014

(10-28-2014, 02:01 PM)Nan3cy link Wrote:I remember watching him in a game against U$C when he ran around in the backfield for what seemed like  multiple minutes and then threw a touchdown pass from like the 40 yard line while running for his life. Maybe the most amazing play I ever saw a QB make, at least in person. Of course, we lost the game by 3 or 4 touchdowns, but there was that one moment of triumph...

Yeah, it was our 40 yard line, not the opponents'.  It might be the greatest play I have ever seen too.  I think he threw it across his body too and across the field.  It was to Ken Margerum, who said he had been cheap shotted enough by USC so that he couldn't even jump anymore.  But the pass went into Margerum's chest, and he held on as the defender tried to strip the ball away from him.

Re: QB Situation for Next Year - DC - 10-28-2014

(10-28-2014, 12:04 PM)garvin link Wrote:I know less about the 1979 team than any other since I enrolled at Stanford. I was living 3,000 miles from campus, before we had the internet or satellite TV, and Stanford's 5-5-1 record certainly didn't attract much national media attention.

So, here's my question: What happened at quarterback that year?  I know Turk Schonert set what was then a Stanford record for completion percentage and led the nation in passing. But John Elway played in nine games and threw nearly 100 passes, an awful lot of action for a backup. Was Schonert injured for a couple of games? Did Elway have some kind of package of plays he came in to run?

Obviously I am wondering if this has some kind of resonance with a potential Hogan/Chryst situation.

Schonert was a fifth year senior and Elway was a true freshman.  Turk started the first and third quarters to give him face, while Elway started the second and fourth quarters so he would be in when the game was decided.

Then we played USC.  Elway completed 9 of 16 passes in the 2nd quarter, but we couldn't score and were down 21-0 at the half.  USC was ranked first or second.  Then Schonert led the team well and stayed in the 4th quarter - we eventually played them to a 21-21 tie.  From then on, Schonert was the starter.

Schonert was known as the "velvet touch" QB and IMO was a superior QB to Hogan.  Chryst, good as he is, doesn't have Elway's arm. 

Re: Elway - GoodGrief - 10-28-2014

(10-28-2014, 02:01 PM)Nan3cy link Wrote:I remember watching him in a game against U$C when he ran around in the backfield for what seemed like  multiple minutes and then threw a touchdown pass from like the 40 yard line while running for his life. Maybe the most amazing play I ever saw a QB make, at least in person. Of course, we lost the game by 3 or 4 touchdowns, but there was that one moment of triumph...

My gosh where is a video of this legendary play? There's this nice write-up of it, but damnit, I want the video!
http://stanford.scout.com/story/1221599-pigskin-flashback-1980-s-the-throw


Re: QB Situation for Next Year - 81alum - 10-28-2014

(10-28-2014, 12:04 PM)garvin link Wrote:I know less about the 1979 team than any other since I enrolled at Stanford. I was living 3,000 miles from campus, before we had the internet or satellite TV, and Stanford's 5-5-1 record certainly didn't attract much national media attention.

So, here's my question: What happened at quarterback that year?  I know Turk Schonert set what was then a Stanford record for completion percentage and led the nation in passing. But John Elway played in nine games and threw nearly 100 passes, an awful lot of action for a backup. Was Schonert injured for a couple of games? Did Elway have some kind of package of plays he came in to run?

Obviously I am wondering if this has some kind of resonance with a potential Hogan/Chryst situation.
I remember 1979 well.  We were all terribly depressed at the beginning of the year for two giant disappointments.  Walsh had left, and Darrin Nelson was injured in the off season and was going to miss the whole season.  On top of that, our second highly effective quarterback in two years had graduated--we had lost Guy Benjamin and now Steve Dils.  Everyone wanted to see the success that Walsh had started continue, but a lot of us had hardly heard of Rod Dowhower except that we were told to expect him to continue the offense as before.

The offense did suffer a major setback, and we lost a couple of games against weak opposition early.  It was simply taking time to replace Nelson and Dils.  As it turned out,  Vincent White and Mike Dotterer at running back and Schonert as the QB developed wonderfully and had superb seasons.  Schonert , who had only thrown 9 passes in his career, turned out to be excellent.  He had touch and could put enough loft under the ball to throw the long ball effectively.  Most impressive, Stanford was 1st that year in pass completion percentage nationally--as Dowhower continued Walsh's short passing strategy.

Elway had thrown passes before UCLA, I think, but maybe I just missed the earlier home games.  He was more a rumor to us casual fans than anything else.  A couple of my friends were managers on the team (you know, the guys who do the laundry and pack the equipment) and they said that there was this new quarterback who threw so hard that a couple of guys had already dislocated fingers.  As I recall, Dowhower brought Elway in to the UCLA game around the 2nd quarter as a "change of pace" quarterback even though Schonert had been excellent--I think he had already thrown a couple of touchdowns. 

Elway ran the no huddle from the shotgun.  Elway's passes were amazing.  Every one looked like it was on a wire.  Lighting fast bullet passes forty yards long with seemingly no arc at all.  Passes that moved that fast and straight did not allow the defense any time to close or react.  The problem was that Elway had not yet learned any touch--he could not seem to put any air under the ball, and his passes were too hot for receivers to handle some of the time.  The "Elway cross" was not necessarily the right kind of pass for a swing pass, for example, nor was it the right kind of pass for a bomb or a fade.  As a result, Elway was widely admired but not as effective as Schonert that first year.  Schonert had a higher completion percentage and a much higher yards per attempt for the year.  In fact, what we were seeing was a sign of things to come.  Elway had one of the best arms of any QB in history, but it was almost a waste to try to use it on a Walsh style west coast offense.  Schonert was actually better suited to the existing offense than Elway.

We wound up winning that game on a 56 yard field goal that was so high that most of us could not tell if it was headed fair or foul.  While it floated through the air the clock ticked to 0.  Then it hit the left post and ricocheted over for the win.

That year everyone was amazed at Elway's arm, but Schonert had a much better QB rating.  It was going to take some time to rebuild the whole offense around Elway's strengths when we had a whole offense geared for someone else.

Maybe this should be a lesson.

Here are some highlights of the 1979 Stanford Arizona State game that shows both Schonert and Elway.  Elway throws an interception on his first effort and disappears, though.  But Schonert and Margerum have spectacular days.  One of the things I like about this video is the crowd noise.  You can tell that the crowd was loud and excited even though it was a rainy day in the old stadium.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaRHow5PUIw

Re: QB Situation for Next Year - Hey - 10-28-2014

That guy who tackled Margerum was Ronnie Lott.  The other three guys in the secondary were Dennis Smith, Joey Browner (at one CB), and Jeff Fisher (at the other CB).  Quite a line-up. 

My favorite Elway game was earlier that same season when they upset #4 ranked Oklahoma on a rainy day in Norman.  He threw lazers all over the field... to everyone, Sooners as well as Cardinal players.  Only, the Oklahoma guys could never hold the ball, so it wasn't a problem.  (EDIT:  I don't think I've ever laughed so hard during a game, with all of the klutzy interception attempts and also people slipping and sliding everywhere.

Re: Elway - Papa John - 10-28-2014

(10-28-2014, 07:59 PM)GoodGrief link Wrote:My gosh where is a video of this legendary play? There's this nice write-up of it, but damnit, I want the video!
http://stanford.scout.com/story/1221599-pigskin-flashback-1980-s-the-throw

Ask and ye shall receive...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5D4YEZZIg0#t=168

I was at that game my freshman year. That was my one and only experience as a ringer in the LSJUMB. At least that's how I choose to remember it.

Re: QB Situation for Next Year - Nan3cy - 10-28-2014

(10-28-2014, 08:27 PM)Big Brother link Wrote:That guy who tackled Margerum was Ronnie Lott.  The other three guys in the secondary were Dennis Smith, Joey Browner (at one CB), and Jeff Fisher (at the other CB).  Quite a line-up. 

My favorite Elway game was earlier that same season when they upset #4 ranked Oklahoma on a rainy day in Norman.  He threw lazers all over the field... to everyone, Sooners as well as Cardinal players.  Only, the Oklahoma guys could never hold the ball, so it wasn't a problem.  (EDIT:  I don't think I've ever laughed so hard during a game, with all of the klutzy interception attempts and also people slipping and sliding everywhere.

I know I've told this story before - maybe more than once - but one of the Oklahoma guys was quoted after the game as saying something to the effect of, "It's not fair. They aren't supposed to win this game.  They're getting an education and everything - all we've got is football." One of my all-time favorite post-game quotes.


Re: Elway - GoodGrief - 10-28-2014

(10-28-2014, 09:34 PM)Papa John link Wrote:[quote author=GoodGrief link=topic=10961.msg103807#msg103807 date=1414551589]
My gosh where is a video of this legendary play? There's this nice write-up of it, but damnit, I want the video!
http://stanford.scout.com/story/1221599-pigskin-flashback-1980-s-the-throw

Ask and ye shall receive...

I was at that game my freshman year. That was my one and only experience as a ringer in the LSJUMB. At least that's how I choose to remember it.
[/quote]

Holy cow, that was awesome, thanks!

Re: QB Situation for Next Year - CowboyIndian - 10-29-2014

(10-28-2014, 08:00 PM)81alum link Wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaRHow5PUIw

I'd sure like to see the TD at 6:20 in our repertoire of plays. It looks a lot like the one Auburn uses with such success. And...it seems perfectly suited to Hogan's strengths.