The CardBoard
Michigan State schedule - Printable Version

+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Michigan State schedule (/thread-6371.html)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5

Re: Michigan State schedule - washingtonismoney - 12-17-2013

(12-17-2013, 10:06 AM)stupac2 link Wrote:(and receivers, don't forget that they sometimes get cases of the dropsies, how different would the University of Spoiled Children  game have looked if Montgomery had hauled in that first pass?)

Ty also dropped a great throw in the endzone too.

Utah Hogan was erratic in-game. YPA looks great but fumbled twice and had a poor completion percentage. Still, I'd go with Oregon State Hogan -- where he frequently looked as if he forgot how to throw -- as the definitive Bad Hogan. Mitigating the worries is that in most of the games in which he played poorly, he didn't run too much -- presumably because of coaching instructions. Shaw tends to let Hogan loose against strong teams, and guess what? MSU is a strong team. Can't wait for the fun variations on inverted veer that we're sure to see in the Rose Bowl.*

* (by the way! MSU fans? Still reading the board? A number of you seem to believe Hogan's not a mobile quarterback. Well, to you I say:

http://youtu.be/Uie-vJ3NyPk?t=3s)

Re: Michigan State schedule - cardfan09 - 12-17-2013

If Michigan State fans are falling into hysterics over a post like this, their 247sports board probably exists in a state of perpetual delirium, given the average level of sports discourse on the internet.

Re: Michigan State schedule - MSUFAN4320 - 12-17-2013

(12-17-2013, 10:06 AM)stupac2 link Wrote:[quote author=washingtonismoney link=topic=9160.msg78584#msg78584 date=1387295888]They've got a good defense and Hogan tends to be erratic.

As far as I can tell, this is the game. If we get ASU Hogan (and receivers, don't forget that they sometimes get cases of the dropsies, how different would the University of Spoiled Children  game have looked if Montgomery had hauled in that first pass?) then I really doubt MSU can keep pace. If we get Utah Hogan, then it's gonna be a looooong day.
[/quote]

Just know that our defense has the ability to "magically" make the other team's QB have a bad day. I'm sure the same can be said of your D.

Re: Michigan State schedule - stupac2 - 12-17-2013

(12-17-2013, 10:22 AM)MSUFAN4320 link Wrote:Just know that our defense has the ability to "magically" make the other team's QB have a bad day. I'm sure the same can be said of your D.

There's a difference between making a QB's life difficult and having a QB derp all over the place. Your defense is undoubtedly a lot better than Utah's or Oregon State's, but those were some of his worst games. ASU has a pretty good defense and he torched it. It's sort of baffling as a fan.

Re: Michigan State schedule - terry - 12-17-2013

(12-17-2013, 10:10 AM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:* by the way! MSU fans? Still reading the board? A number of you seem to believe Hogan's not a mobile quarterback. . . .

Is that really what MSU fans are saying? I guess they don't know much about our team.

Hogan clearly is more mobile than the MSU quarterback, Connor Cook:

Hogan - 76 rushing attempts, 314 yards, 4.1 yards/attempt (includes 15 sacks)
Cook  - 63 rushing attempts, 91 yards, 1.4 yards/attempt (includes 12 sacks)

Cook gained all of his net rushing yardage against the 4 weakest opponents on the MSU schedule -- Western Michigan, South Florida, Youngstown State, and Purdue. In those games, Cook ran 21 times for 97 yards. In the 9 games against tougher opponents, Cook ran 42 times for -6 yards.

Hogan is pretty much the opposite. Hogan did not run much against the weakest opponents on Stanford's schedule (9 carries for 31 yards against Army, San Jose State, and Ca'l). Hogan had his biggest rushing games against some of the toughest teams on the schedule. He ran 28 times for 159 yards (5.7 yds/att) in the games against Oregon, Arizona State, and UCLA.

Re: Michigan State schedule - Spartandawg - 12-17-2013

(12-17-2013, 11:00 AM)terry link Wrote:[quote author=washingtonismoney link=topic=9160.msg78594#msg78594 date=1387300229]
* by the way! MSU fans? Still reading the board? A number of you seem to believe Hogan's not a mobile quarterback. . . .

Is that really what MSU fans are saying? I guess they don't know much about our team.

Hogan clearly is more mobile than the MSU quarterback, Connor Cook:

Hogan - 76 rushing attempts, 314 yards, 4.1 yards/attempt (includes 15 sacks)
Cook  - 63 rushing attempts, 91 yards, 1.4 yards/attempt (includes 12 sacks)

Cook gained all of his net rushing yardage against the 4 weakest opponents on the MSU schedule -- Western Michigan, South Florida, Youngstown State, and Purdue. In those games, Cook ran 21 times for 97 yards. In the 9 games against tougher opponents, Cook ran 42 times for -6 yards.

Hogan is pretty much the opposite. Hogan did not run much against the weakest opponents on Stanford's schedule (9 carries for 31 yards against Army, San Jose State, and Ca'l). Hogan had his biggest rushing games against some of the toughest teams on the schedule. He ran 28 times for 159 yards (5.7 yds/att) in the games against Oregon, Arizona State, and UCLA.
[/quote]

And so begins the debate on whether a mobile QB is an asset or a liability.  My only disappointment with Cook's rushing numbers is that his attempts are too high.  That's what running backs are for.


Re: Michigan State schedule - Hulk01 - 12-17-2013

The  “Mobile Quarterback: Asset or Liability?” debate will take place right after the debates on “Air: Invaluable Resource or Mere Convenience?”, “Warren Harding: Greatest President Ever?” and “Can The Nude Female Body Be Arousing?”

Re: Michigan State schedule - yvonne - 12-17-2013

(12-17-2013, 10:06 AM)stupac2 link Wrote:[quote author=washingtonismoney link=topic=9160.msg78584#msg78584 date=1387295888]They've got a good defense and Hogan tends to be erratic.

As far as I can tell, this is the game. If we get ASU Hogan (and receivers, don't forget that they sometimes get cases of the dropsies, how different would the University of Spoiled Children  game have looked if Montgomery had hauled in that first pass?) then I really doubt MSU can keep pace. If we get Utah Hogan, then it's gonna be a looooong day.
[/quote]

Yes, but it's clearly going to be an away game for us, and so the team will have to fix its road game jitters.

Re: Michigan State schedule - Mick - 12-17-2013

(12-17-2013, 11:56 AM)Spartandawg link Wrote:[quote author=terry link=topic=9160.msg78603#msg78603 date=1387303239]
[quote author=washingtonismoney link=topic=9160.msg78594#msg78594 date=1387300229]
* by the way! MSU fans? Still reading the board? A number of you seem to believe Hogan's not a mobile quarterback. . . .

Is that really what MSU fans are saying? I guess they don't know much about our team.

Hogan clearly is more mobile than the MSU quarterback, Connor Cook:

Hogan - 76 rushing attempts, 314 yards, 4.1 yards/attempt (includes 15 sacks)
Cook  - 63 rushing attempts, 91 yards, 1.4 yards/attempt (includes 12 sacks)

Cook gained all of his net rushing yardage against the 4 weakest opponents on the MSU schedule -- Western Michigan, South Florida, Youngstown State, and Purdue. In those games, Cook ran 21 times for 97 yards. In the 9 games against tougher opponents, Cook ran 42 times for -6 yards.

Hogan is pretty much the opposite. Hogan did not run much against the weakest opponents on Stanford's schedule (9 carries for 31 yards against Army, San Jose State, and Ca'l). Hogan had his biggest rushing games against some of the toughest teams on the schedule. He ran 28 times for 159 yards (5.7 yds/att) in the games against Oregon, Arizona State, and UCLA.
[/quote]

And so begins the debate on whether a mobile QB is an asset or a liability.  My only disappointment with Cook's rushing numbers is that his attempts are too high.  That's what running backs are for.
[/quote]

Debate over.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8PWDnBLNg0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJ5apNjFfFs




Re: Michigan State schedule - Spartandawg - 12-17-2013

(12-17-2013, 12:06 PM)Hulk01 link Wrote:The  “Mobile Quarterback: Asset or Liability?” debate will take place right after the debates on “Air: Invaluable Resource or Mere Convenience?”, “Warren Harding: Greatest President Ever?” and “Can The Nude Female Body Be Arousing?”

[Image: gty_tom_brady_jef_120126_wg.jpg]
[Image: g229242_u77479_peyton_manningMTEyOQ==.jpg]


Re: Michigan State schedule - stupac2 - 12-17-2013

(12-17-2013, 01:42 PM)Spartandawg link Wrote:[Image: gty_tom_brady_jef_120126_wg.jpg]
[Image: g229242_u77479_peyton_manningMTEyOQ==.jpg]

...At this point I'm honestly about 50-50 that you're trolling or really think that's a legitimate, non-fallacious response. Just in case it's the latter, I'll go with it.

"The best QBs aren't mobile" is not logically incompatible with "a mobile QB is an asset". In fact, it has absolutely nothing to do with the question. Would Tom Brady be better if he didn't run like a drunk toddler? I think the answer to that question is undoubtedly yes. If you think it's not, you'd better have a good way to explain it.

Of course, you could be arguing that (for some reason) being mobile makes one less likely to be a good QB, which seems pretty obviously false (ever heard of John Elway?), especially if you look at the league right now. Andrew Luck, Cam Newton, and Russel Wilson are both playing very well, both as pocket passers and when forced to run. We could end up with a Super Bowl where both QBs are good runners pretty easily, in fact.

Re: Michigan State schedule - terry - 12-17-2013

Connor Cook is no Tom Brady or Peyton Manning.

Re: Michigan State schedule - terry - 12-17-2013

I just watched the video of Kevin Hogan in last year's Rose Bowl. It was not one of Hogan's better games. But it does show the advantages of mobility. He made some big runs in that game (7 carries, 54 yards). It's nice to have that weapon in the playbook.

Re: Michigan State schedule - stupac2 - 12-17-2013

(12-17-2013, 02:56 PM)terry link Wrote:I just watched the video of Kevin Hogan in last year's Rose Bowl. It was not one of Hogan's better games. But it does show the advantages of mobility. He made some big runs in that game (7 carries, 54 yards). It's nice to have that weapon in the playbook.

I'm assuming you're not taking requests for data analysis, but I'm curious about something in that game. Is there anything to the idea that Hogan was playing really well up until the long throw to JRP where Hogan took a big hit? I've read a few times that he clearly seemed a bit messed up from that, and had a much worse game afterward, but I've never seen it demonstrated. I'm also not really sure of the best way of figuring that out.

Re: Michigan State schedule - Oasis - 12-17-2013

(12-17-2013, 12:06 PM)Hulk01 link Wrote:The  “Mobile Quarterback: Asset or Liability?” debate will take place right after the debates on “Air: Invaluable Resource or Mere Convenience?”, “Warren Harding: Greatest President Ever?” and “Can The Nude Female Body Be Arousing?”

This has to go on some kind of all-time list.  Hysterical.

Re: Michigan State schedule - Spartandawg - 12-18-2013

(12-17-2013, 01:52 PM)stupac2 link Wrote:[quote author=Spartandawg link=topic=9160.msg78625#msg78625 date=1387312938][Image: gty_tom_brady_jef_120126_wg.jpg]
[Image: g229242_u77479_peyton_manningMTEyOQ==.jpg]

...At this point I'm honestly about 50-50 that you're trolling or really think that's a legitimate, non-fallacious response. Just in case it's the latter, I'll go with it.

"The best QBs aren't mobile" is not logically incompatible with "a mobile QB is an asset". In fact, it has absolutely nothing to do with the question. Would Tom Brady be better if he didn't run like a drunk toddler? I think the answer to that question is undoubtedly yes. If you think it's not, you'd better have a good way to explain it.

Of course, you could be arguing that (for some reason) being mobile makes one less likely to be a good QB, which seems pretty obviously false (ever heard of John Elway?), especially if you look at the league right now. Andrew Luck, Cam Newton, and Russel Wilson are both playing very well, both as pocket passers and when forced to run. We could end up with a Super Bowl where both QBs are good runners pretty easily, in fact.
[/quote]


Hmm.  Let's look at the last five Super Bowl winners:

Flacco- 32 attempts, 0.7 yard average
E. Manning- 35, 0.4
Rodgers- 64, 4.0
Brees- 22, 1.5
Rothliesburger- 34, 3.0

Perhaps a trend is emerging.  Thoughts?


Re: Michigan State schedule - terry - 12-18-2013

Connor Cook is no Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers.

Re: Michigan State schedule - profro - 12-18-2013

I'll take Hogan over Cooks on 1/1/14.

Re: Michigan State schedule - MSUFAN4320 - 12-18-2013

Well, after facing Braxton Miller, I'm not sure MSU's defense will be too concerned with Hogan's mobility. However, if defenses aren't keying in on him as a runner, I could see them getting burnt here and there if Stanford is smart with their play-calling and catches them off guard.

Mobility is defined in different ways. It can be a guy who's looking to pick up yards with his legs or it can be a guy who's mobile in the pocket, can move around, and extend the play. That's Cook. His mobility is more in the mold of a Ben Roethlisberger.

Re: Michigan State schedule - Cowboy1 - 12-18-2013

Hogan didn't run very much against the weaker opponents because he didn't need to - he had all day to throw.  Against the better teams he was forced out of the pocket and then seemed to have better games since he was more of a dual threat.