McKee - Printable Version
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RE: McKee - Jamesy - 02-14-2023
(02-14-2023, 08:24 AM)Mick Wrote:(02-13-2023, 02:50 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Too bad there is no such wikipedia page for Stanford QBs, but there is this...
https://www.ranker.com/list/best-stanford-cardinals-quarterbacks/ranker-college-football
I upvoted Brian Johnson solely because of the HR he hit against the Dodgers...and for scouting the Tigers with Pat the Bat in advance of the 2012 World Series...
What did Jerry Gustafson do to be ranked below Jack West!?!
RE: McKee - terry - 02-14-2023
(02-14-2023, 01:02 PM)vataha Wrote: All respect to "Angry Doug", a great pro but I recall him only having one real good season at Stanford, whereas I would suggest DeRonnie Pitts had possibly a greater Stanford career than Doug Baldwin.
No question that DeRonnie Pitts had a better Stanford career than Doug Baldwin. Pitts had three season with 60+ receptions and 850+ yards. Baldwin had only one season that approached those numbers.
Career:
.................Rec. Yds. Avg. TD
Pitts..........228 3,023 13.3 24
Baldwin......96 1,360 14.2 13
Best single season:
...........................Rec. Yds. Avg. TD
Pitts (1998)...........74 1,012 13.7 7
Baldwin (2010)......58 857 14.8 9
RE: McKee - skip75 - 02-14-2023
We want Waldvogel!
RE: McKee - BobK - 02-14-2023
Garrett is 6. Maybe 5.
RE: McKee - msqueri - 02-15-2023
Thread moved on from McKee in the time I was digging into some data on college QB performance so I could wrap my head around this a bit better, but in case interesting to people here's something I've been putting together:
As we think about QB production, the circumstances in which they did or did not succeed in college, and how it would be prudent for NFL teams to evaluate accordingly, I'll share the career best Total QBR ratings of the NFL QBs drafted since 2012 from when they were in college. I think this can put into perspective McKee's lack of production, as demonstrated by his career best year of 2021 having a Total QBR of 65.1. What I found:
1. Mac Jones - 96.1
2. Kyler Murray - 95.4
3. Joe Burrow - 94.9
4. Tua Tagovailoa - 94.8
5. Russell Wilson - 94.1
6. Andrew Luck - 93.8
7. Jalen Hurts - 92.7
8. Baker Mayfield - 92.3
9. Justin Fields - 92.1
10. Marcus Mariota - 91.3
10. Johnny Manziel - 91.3
12. Deshaun Watson - 90.9
13. Jameis Winston - 90.2
14. Matt Corral - 89.9
15. Zach Wilson - 88.6
16. Kyle Trask - 88.5
17. Aaron Murray - 88.1
18. Brandon Allen - 88.0
19. Trevor Lawrence - 87.3
19. Kevin Hogan - 87.3
21. Chad Kelly - 86.9
22. Zach Mettenberger - 86.8
22. Bryce Petty - 86.8
24. Mason Rudolph - 86.7
25. Dak Prescott - 86.5
26. Sam Darnold - 86.2
26. Jarrett Stidham - 86.2
28. Lamar Jackson - 85.4
29. Jake Fromm - 85.1
30. AJ McCarron - 84.9
31. Dwayne Haskins - 84.8
32. Jared Goff - 84.2
33. Brett Hundley - 84.1
34. Teddy Bridgewater - 84.0
34. Ian Book - 84.0
36. Mitchell Trubisky - 83.6
37. Robert Griffin III - 83.5
38. Brandon Doughty - 82.9
39. Brandon Weeden - 82.6
40. Patrick Mahomes - 82.5
41. Connor Cook - 82.3
42. Matt Barkley - 82.2
43. Drew Lock - 82.0
43. Jake Rudock - 82.0
45. Tajh Boyd - 81.8
46. Trace McSorley - 81.5
47. Kenny Pickett - 81.2
47. Nathan Peterman - 81.2
49. Landry Jones - 81.1
50. Will Grier - 81.0
51. Desmond Ridder - 80.9
52. Danny Etling - 80.8
53. Ryan Finley - 80.4
53. Davis Webb - 80.4
55. Justin Herbert - 80.1
56. Joshua Dobbs - 79.8
57. Blake Bortles - 79.6
58. Cody Kessler - 79.5
59. Geno Smith - 79.4
60. Sam Howell - 79.3
61. Deshone Kizer - 79.1
62. Brock Purdy - 78.8
63. Malik Willis - 78.7
63. Chandler Harnish - 78.7
65. Bailey Zappe - 78.6
66. Logan Woodside - 77.9
67. Sam Ehlinger - 77.6
67. Mike White - 77.6
67. David Fales - 77.6
70. Davis Mills - 77.4
71. Derek Carr - 76.6
72. Gardner Minshew - 76.5
73. Skylar Thompson - 76.2
74. Sean Mannion - 75.9
75. Paxton Lynch - 74.9
76. Kellen Mond - 74.9
77. Tyler Wilson - 74.7
78. EJ Manuel - 74.5
79. Nate Stanley - 74.2
80. Kirk Cousins - 74.1
81. Josh Allen - 73.8
81. Nate Sudfeld - 73.8
83. Logan Thomas - 73.3
84. Ryan Lindley - 73.0
85. Daniel Jones - 72.3
86. Luke Falk - 72.0
87. Keith Wenning - 71.6
88. Cole McDonald - 70.8
89. Brock Osweiler - 70.7
90. Nick Foles - 70.2
91. Clayton Thorson - 70.0
92. Ryan Tannehill - 69.7
92. CJ Beathard - 69.7
94. Brad Kaaya - 69.4
94. Garrett Grayson - 69.4
96. Jacoby Brissett - 68.9
97. James Morgan - 68.8
98. Jeff Driskel - 68.4
98. Josh Rosen - 68.4
100. Jake Luton - 68.2
101. Ryan Nassib - 68.0
102. Jordan Love - 67.8
103. Sean Renfree - 66.2
104. Jacob Eason - 65.9
105. Tommy Stevens - 65.3
106. Tom Savage - 64.2
107. Garrett Gilbert - 62.8
108. Tanner Lee - 61.6
109. Alex McGough - 61.5
110. BJ Daniels - 61.0
111. Trevor Siemian - 60.7
112. Zac Dysert - 60.3
113. Christian Hackenberg - 58.3
114. Mike Glennon - 57.8
115. Cardale Jones - 56.1
N/A (Non-FBS so not measurable by Total QBR): BJ Coleman, Brad Sorensen, Jimmy Garoppolo, Carson Wentz, Kyle Lauletta, Easton Stick, Ben DiNucci (60.5 before transferring but drafted on basis of later seasons), Trey Lance, Chris Oladokun
If I had a vote for an NFL franchise, McKee would be straight-up undraftable. Not a single spot in the draft I'd want him at.
RE: McKee - BostonCard - 02-15-2023
Rosen and Hackenberg are probably good comparators (hyped guys with tools who "looked the part") but whose college careers were uninspiring and whose NFL careers seemed to reflect their lack of college production.
I think a guys like Tanner Lee and Garrett Gilbert, who were drafted in the sixth round don't really tell us much; an analysis (link) by Football Outsiders found that the majority (30/48, 63%) of QBs drafted in the sixth round don't ever start in the NFL. So their lack of college production doesn't tell us all that much more than their draft status.
On the other hand, a guy like Rosen was picked in the first round with the 10th pick. His lack of college production should have been a red flag, and was borne out by an NFL career that would have been predicted by his draft status alone (100% of first round picks, 57/57 started at least one game, and they started an average of 73 games (that means they were multi-year starters). Rosen started 16 games in his career.
As a second round pick, Hackenberg was a total bust who never played a snap across two NFL seasons, compared to the average second round pick who started an average of 41 games in the FO analysis.
Conversely, Russell Wilson might be a guy who by collegiate production should have been a first round pick. He was drafted in the third round, but his 173 starts were much higher than the average 20 starts by 3rd round QBs (and since the analysis was from 1994-2016 and he was probably the most productive 3rd round QB drafted in that time, he singlehandedly increased the average, as he accounted for 96 starts (as of 2017, when the analysis was conducted) out of the 567 total starts by third round QBs in that period.
Of course, those are cherry picked anecdotes. I'd be curious to run a regression to see whether, as a whole, collegiate production, above and beyond draft pick. After all, they are guys like Johny Manziel, 10th in your list in collegiate career best QBR, 1st round draft pick, and career 8 game starter in the NFL.
BC
RE: McKee - bbm233 - 02-15-2023
I think it is really hard to take something like QBR from college and project NFL success once you get past the top one or two each year. I think most NFL people would put Mahomes (#40 on the list), Allen (#81), Burrow (#3) and Herbert (#55) on the list of current NFL QBs you want to build a team around. All of those guys were drafted in the first round, but it wasn't based on their QBR (except Burrow), so NFL GMs are looking deeper. I just think it's freaking hard to know which first round guys are going to be difference makers and which are not (Mayfield, Manziel, Winston, Mariota etc.). BTW, I wouldn't take McKee either, but QBR for him has to be impacted by the crappy plays he was given to run.