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Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - Printable Version

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Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - SF_Cardinal_Fan - 08-09-2017

(08-09-2017, 10:21 AM)pefloresjr link Wrote:I thought Rosen's comments were pretty accurate and he did express frustration that some colleges are more focused on simply keeping their players eligible rather than truly educating them.  Even with that, Rosen's comments bothered me a little because they seemed to show an attitude of entitlement.  Most students I've known have had conflicts in their schedules that required them to wait a year to take a class.  Each student has to work out their priorities and either let an activity go or wait until there is no conflict.  Josh Rosen is not being forced to play football. 

The other thing that bothered me a little was his complaint about the time it takes to play football and go to school.  I've got a chip on my shoulder about this because I worked about 30 hours a week my freshman and sophomore years and 30-50 hours a week (not counting commute time to 2nd job in San Jose) my junior and senior years.  Athletes commit as many hours to their sport but also get a lot of support and perks that regular students don't.  Rosen's comments feel like the whining of a person who does not seem to realize how lucky he is to be where he is.  There is no such thing as the perfect balance.  The old man in me wants him to quit whining and get to work.  Life is tough, find a way to get through it. 

Cheers,
Pete F.

Josh Rosen's father is a surgeon. So, while I expect he is aware of the value of an education, I doubt he has ever served as an employee.

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - Mick - 08-09-2017

(08-09-2017, 10:02 AM)fullmetal link Wrote:The age-old struggle between specialization and well-roundedness...this battle is waged secretly in the locked rooms of the admissions office as well.  We all want to work with well-rounded, pleasant, articulate people, and yet the glory of achievement is reserved for the deeply specialized and focused.

I think someone who gets Admissions' stamp of approval generally can balance those forces.  Following the Pareto Principle, maybe the trick is to spend just enough time experiencing the college life and making those memories before the demands of school and sports suffer.  I did a mediocre job of it, and I wish I had the discipline then as I do now to give it a go again.


When my older son was being recruited, I had a fascinating conversation with the individual at Harvard who (in essence) was responsible for reconciling the recruiting needs of the athletic department against the mission of the admissions department.  It was the first time I had ever heard the term "well-lopsided" to describe young students who were at the very top of their field.  According to this individual, Harvard had gone through a semi-lengthy period (six to eight years) where they avoided recruiting "well-rounded" individuals in favor of concentrating solely on the well-lopsided high school students.  But within a few years, they realized that it didn't make for a very pleasant campus to have almost exclusively silo-driven students.

In that individual's words, she said "(Harvard) came to the conclusion that there was a place at Harvard for the student body president who was captain of the tennis team and had test scores that were perhaps not in the top 1/100th of 1%."  Harvard's description of well-rounded, as it were.  She went on to say that Harvard sought a balance of highly accomplished well-rounded students as well as the best cellist in America, so to speak.



Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - Mick - 08-09-2017

(08-09-2017, 10:02 AM)Goose link Wrote:[quote author=ColoradoTree link=topic=17134.msg196798#msg196798 date=1502297870]
There's still my second question, which asks whether our players could do even better with a less demanding football schedule.  I have to think the answer to that is yes.

That very much depends on how one defines "better". I would argue that most of the guys out there would say there is nothing "better" than playing on Saturday.  Others may think going to the Opera or volunteering at a school is "better". YMMV.
[/quote]

Unless it's playing on a Sunday...

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - Goose - 08-09-2017

(08-09-2017, 01:42 PM)Mick link Wrote:[quote author=Goose link=topic=17134.msg196801#msg196801 date=1502298164]

That very much depends on how one defines "better". I would argue that most of the guys out there would say there is nothing "better" than playing on Saturday.  Others may think going to the Opera or volunteering at a school is "better". YMMV.

Unless it's playing on a Sunday...
[/quote]
Most, but not all. John Sande comes to mind. Realistically, most of the guys out there know that this is as far as they will ever go. More than half of them just hope to get some minutes on the field. Yet they still do it. It isn't just "all about the money" for most of them. The guys on the scout team have to put in the hours too, knowing that they are not NFL material.

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - TreesAndBirds - 08-09-2017

Pat Forde supports Rosen (and reminds us of Harbaughs quote about Michigan steering athletes to easier majors)

https://sports.yahoo.com/josh-rosen-right-college-football-school-dont-mix-174001650.html

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - johnnyo53 - 08-09-2017

I THINK ROSEN IS RIGHT ON ALL COUNTS.  I THINK WE WOULD'VE BEEN A BETTER TEAM WITH ROSEN (IF FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN UCLA WOULD BE WORSE).  I THINK IT IS REFRESHING TO HEAR BLUNT TRUTH FROM THE GUYS WHO ACTUALLY BUCKLE THE CHINSTRAP RATHER THAN SOME PC HORSESH*T OR PANDERING TO THEIR COACHES OR ANYBODY ELSE.  I THINK THE KID IS A GAMER WHO PUSHES HIMSELF HARD AND HAS A CONSIDERABLE SKILLSET. 

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - fullmetal - 08-09-2017

Hopefully Chryst or Costello will prove themselves so worthy in your eyes this season...!  I guess you think they're chopped liver (or at least unproven) right now ;)

Contrarian or controversial opinions don't have an exclusive hold on the truth.  Sometimes players and coaches share opinions because they're the right opinions.

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - akiddoc - 08-10-2017

There seem to be a lot of comments that misinterpret what Rosen said. He did not say that he does not value his education. He pretty much says the opposite. He is an economics major. Nothing wishy-washy about that. He is saying that the demands of playing football and the demands of being a student at a serious university at the same time are beyond what is reasonable. That is true. I don't think most of us think any differently.

The issue really is that he is dissing Alabama and its players. He doesn't have a proper filter between brain and mouth. As a current college football player, he is hurting himself by doing so. He is viewed as a represntative of UCLA due to his position. He doesn't understand that. It's okay for us to discuss Alabama and its students. We are random people on a discussion board. For Rosen to do it is a poor decision that could harm his future career and reputation.

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - Mick - 08-10-2017

(08-10-2017, 01:12 AM)akiddoc link Wrote:There seem to be a lot of comments that misinterpret what Rosen said. He did not say that he does not value his education. He pretty much says the opposite. He is an economics major. Nothing wishy-washy about that. He is saying that the demands of playing football and the demands of being a student at a serious university at the same time are beyond what is reasonable. That is true. I don't think most of us think any differently.

The issue really is that he is dissing Alabama and its players. He doesn't have a proper filter between brain and mouth. As a current college football player, he is hurting himself by doing so. He is viewed as a represntative of UCLA due to his position. He doesn't understand that. It's okay for us to discuss Alabama and its students. We are random people on a discussion board. For Rosen to do it is a poor decision that could harm his future career and reputation.

+1.  And based on the interviews that Rosen gave prior to college, it doesn't surprise me at all.  I think this was bound to happen.

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - BostonCard - 08-10-2017

Reading some of the additional comments, I agree that it was not a complaint that school was interfering with his football, but rather that it is difficult to fully participate in school because of the demands of football.

Quote:“It’s cool because we’re learning more applicable stuff in my major [Economics] – not just the prerequisite stuff that’s designed to filter out people,” Rosen told Bleacher Report. “But football really dents my ability to take some classes that I need. There are a bunch of classes that are only offered one time. There was a class this spring I had to take, but there was a conflict with spring football, so … ”

That being said, if he leaves UCLA after this year to go pro, doesn't that kind of undercut his argument?

BC

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - murky - 08-10-2017

(08-10-2017, 01:12 AM)akiddoc link Wrote:There seem to be a lot of comments that misinterpret what Rosen said. He did not say that he does not value his education. He pretty much says the opposite. He is an economics major. Nothing wishy-washy about that. He is saying that the demands of playing football and the demands of being a student at a serious university at the same time are beyond what is reasonable. That is true. I don't think most of us think any differently.

The issue really is that he is dissing Alabama and its players. He doesn't have a proper filter between brain and mouth. As a current college football player, he is hurting himself by doing so. He is viewed as a represntative of UCLA due to his position. He doesn't understand that. It's okay for us to discuss Alabama and its students. We are random people on a discussion board. For Rosen to do it is a poor decision that could harm his future career and reputation.

This is a good summary.

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - CTcard - 08-10-2017

(08-10-2017, 01:12 AM)akiddoc link Wrote:The issue really is that he is dissing Alabama and its players.

And Clemson players.

And a lot of players generally that "don't belong in school", unlike himself.

All of which is likely true. I don't see that truth makes it an admirable thing to harp on.

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - SF_Cardinal_Fan - 08-10-2017

(08-10-2017, 11:06 AM)CTcard link Wrote:And Clemson players.

And a lot of players generally that "don't belong in school", unlike himself.

All of which is likely true. I don't see that truth makes it an admirable thing to harp on.

Exactly right.


Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - BostonCard - 08-10-2017

(08-10-2017, 11:06 AM)CTcard link Wrote:[quote author=akiddoc link=topic=17134.msg196863#msg196863 date=1502352750]
The issue really is that he is dissing Alabama and its players.

And Clemson players.

And a lot of players generally that "don't belong in school", unlike himself.

All of which is likely true. I don't see that truth makes it an admirable thing to harp on.
[/quote]

So that means that next year, when he will have an opportunity between finishing his degree at UCLA or playing full time football in the NFL, he will surely chose UCLA, right?

BC

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - johnnyo53 - 08-12-2017

(08-09-2017, 05:52 PM)fullmetal link Wrote:Hopefully Chryst or Costello will prove themselves so worthy in your eyes this season...!  I guess you think they're chopped liver (or at least unproven) right now ;)

Contrarian or controversial opinions don't have an exclusive hold on the truth.  Sometimes players and coaches share opinions because they're the right opinions.

CHRYST WAS MY GUY GOING INTO LAST YEAR, I ALWAYS THOUGHT HE WAS A GAMER, AND NOTHING HAS CHANGED MY OPINION ON THAT ASSUMING HE'S HEALTHY AND GIVEN THAT FRESHMEN QB'S WON'T EVER GET THE CHANCE UNDER SHAW.  BURNS BECAME WHAT I THOUGHT HE WAS AFTER A FEW GAMES, AND COSTELLO IS ALL HYPE.  CHRYST'S AND MAYBE BURNS' PROBLEM WAS A COACHING STAFF THAT OVERLOADS THE POSITION WITH PLAYBOOK INSTEAD OF TAILORING THE PLAYBOOK TO THE PLAYER.  THEY INHIBITED HOGAN THAT WAY TOO FOR QUITE A BIT OF HIS CAREER IMHO.  INDICATIVE OF THAT FACT IS HOW MANY TIMES WE GET A DELAY OF GAME PENALTY, FOLLOWED BY HAVING TO TAKE A SUBSEQUENT TIMEOUT.  I DON'T HAVE A LOT OF CONFIDENCE IN HOW THE QB POSITION IS RECRUITED AND DEVELOPED UNDER SHAVITAGREN.  REMEMBER, SHAW WASN'T THAT HIGH ON ANDREW LUCK, HE HAD OTHER RECRUITS RANKED HIGHER, AND OF COURSE STARTING NUNES AT ALL WAS ANOTHER EXAMPLE....  CHRYST MAY NEVER BE A GREAT THROWER, BUT HE COULD BE EFFECTIVE ENOUGH FOR US IF THE OTHER PIECES COME TOGETHER ON OFFENSE. MAYBE I'M WRONG (NO, THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE LOL) BUT THAT'S MY OUTLOOK.

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - Phogge - 08-12-2017

I'm waiting for your 4-8 piece to read the fallout on this board. LOL! Perhaps you can get into a "discussion" with Ancient Indian.



Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - johnnyo53 - 08-12-2017

4-8? 4-8?  (JIM MORA).  IF USC CRUSHES US IN GAME 2, WE ARE TOAST.  IF WE BEAT THEM, WE'VE GOT A CHANCE TO BE GOOD.  THE CUPBOARD IS BARER THIS YEAR THAN I CAN REMEMBER UNDER SHAW, BUT IF YOU CAN'T BEAT WASHINGTON STATE, YOU'RE GOING TO AT LEAST UNDERACHIEVE IF NOT SUCK.  WE PISSED AWAY A ROSE BOWL BERTH LAST YEAR.  OH, AND STFU!  YOU MISSED AN EPIC DINNER THURSDAY NIGHT AT MARIO'S NEW RESTAURANT (U.S. RESTAURANT ON COLUMBUS).

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - JohnR34231 - 08-12-2017

(08-12-2017, 08:39 AM)johnnyo53 link Wrote:[quote author=fullmetal link=topic=17134.msg196852#msg196852 date=1502326361]
Hopefully Chryst or Costello will prove themselves so worthy in your eyes this season...!  I guess you think they're chopped liver (or at least unproven) right now ;)

Contrarian or controversial opinions don't have an exclusive hold on the truth.  Sometimes players and coaches share opinions because they're the right opinions.

CHRYST WAS MY GUY GOING INTO LAST YEAR, I ALWAYS THOUGHT HE WAS A GAMER, AND NOTHING HAS CHANGED MY OPINION ON THAT ASSUMING HE'S HEALTHY AND GIVEN THAT FRESHMEN QB'S WON'T EVER GET THE CHANCE UNDER SHAW.  BURNS BECAME WHAT I THOUGHT HE WAS AFTER A FEW GAMES, AND COSTELLO IS ALL HYPE.  CHRYST'S AND MAYBE BURNS' PROBLEM WAS A COACHING STAFF THAT OVERLOADS THE POSITION WITH PLAYBOOK INSTEAD OF TAILORING THE PLAYBOOK TO THE PLAYER.  THEY INHIBITED HOGAN THAT WAY TOO FOR QUITE A BIT OF HIS CAREER IMHO.  INDICATIVE OF THAT FACT IS HOW MANY TIMES WE GET A DELAY OF GAME PENALTY, FOLLOWED BY HAVING TO TAKE A SUBSEQUENT TIMEOUT.  I DON'T HAVE A LOT OF CONFIDENCE IN HOW THE QB POSITION IS RECRUITED AND DEVELOPED UNDER SHAVITAGREN.  REMEMBER, SHAW WASN'T THAT HIGH ON ANDREW LUCK, HE HAD OTHER RECRUITS RANKED HIGHER, AND OF COURSE STARTING NUNES AT ALL WAS ANOTHER EXAMPLE....  CHRYST MAY NEVER BE A GREAT THROWER, BUT HE COULD BE EFFECTIVE ENOUGH FOR US IF THE OTHER PIECES COME TOGETHER ON OFFENSE. MAYBE I'M WRONG (NO, THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE LOL) BUT THAT'S MY OUTLOOK.
[/quote]

I think it is a little early to decide that Costello is "all hype".  Any special reason for saying that?
I do agree that if in fact he is, and Chryst turns out to be merely adequate, Shaw needs to do some serious soul searching about the way he and the staff recruit and develop quarterbacks.

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - lex24 - 08-12-2017

Rosen always comes off as a snot. Josh Rosen obviously thinks very highly of Josh Rosen. Just guessing here - but I suspect he doesn't play real well with others.

Re: Rosen - football and school "don't go together." - BostonCard - 08-12-2017

(08-12-2017, 01:04 PM)JPRI link Wrote:I think it is a little early to decide that Costello is "all hype".  Any special reason for saying that?
I do agree that if in fact he is, and Chryst turns out to be merely adequate, Shaw needs to do some serious soul searching about the way he and the staff recruit and develop quarterbacks.

Actually, I think it is a bit early to say that Costello is anything more than hype.  He hasn't seen any action as a collegiate quarterback, ergo... all we have to go on is hype (so far).

BC