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OT: Colin Kaepernick - Printable Version

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Re: OT: Colin Kaepernick - TreesAndBirds - 08-29-2016

(08-29-2016, 01:42 PM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:I think even aside from the issues motivating Kaepernick's anthem boycott, a bigger issue is what the flag and anthem represent? When Stanford's football team runs out on the field carrying the American flag, what does it even mean?  Is Stanford's team playing for the military?  Setting an example all Americans can be proud of, by taking school and football equally seriously?  Representing pride in their country in general?  Something else?  It's clear the flag and anthem have lots of meanings to lots of different people. I never thought of the military when anthems are played at Olympic medal ceremonies, but apparently some do.

The real problem is when people claim CK's disrespecting the military, even when he says he's got no beef with and respects the military. There are too many interpretations of the things involved to justify anyone having a strident position on this issue, no matter what it happens to be.

For me, the national anthem is unifying, or at least intended to be. Sports is competitive and evokes passions against other cities, schools, people. The anthem reminds us that despite the competition, we have a lot in common, and lets not let the competition get out of hand. It also reminds us that there are more important things than sports.  And I think it's more appropriate in sports because you dont have the same type of competition in the arts, movies, etc. That said, I understand it can mean different things for different people.

Re: OT: Colin Kaepernick - CornFed - 08-29-2016

(08-29-2016, 01:58 PM)TreesAndBirds link Wrote:[quote author=OutsiderFan link=topic=15509.msg168867#msg168867 date=1472503358]
I think even aside from the issues motivating Kaepernick's anthem boycott, a bigger issue is what the flag and anthem represent? When Stanford's football team runs out on the field carrying the American flag, what does it even mean?  Is Stanford's team playing for the military?  Setting an example all Americans can be proud of, by taking school and football equally seriously?  Representing pride in their country in general?  Something else?  It's clear the flag and anthem have lots of meanings to lots of different people. I never thought of the military when anthems are played at Olympic medal ceremonies, but apparently some do.

The real problem is when people claim CK's disrespecting the military, even when he says he's got no beef with and respects the military. There are too many interpretations of the things involved to justify anyone having a strident position on this issue, no matter what it happens to be.

For me, the national anthem is unifying, or at least intended to be. Sports is competitive and evokes passions against other cities, schools, people. The anthem reminds us that despite the competition, we have a lot in common, and lets not let the competition get out of hand. It also reminds us that there are more important things than sports.  And I think it's more appropriate in sports because you dont have the same type of competition in the arts, movies, etc. That said, I understand it can mean different things for different people.
[/quote]

T and B, that was beautifully stated.  Thank you for doing so.

Re: OT: Colin Kaepernick - dabigv13 - 08-29-2016

https://mobile.twitter.com/FieldGulls/status/770338934635192320

Richard Sherman weighs in.

I think his view approximates mine. Then again, CK certainly has drawn attention. But perhaps too polarizing of a move. I don't think he's convincing anyone who isn't already convinced.

Re: OT: Colin Kaepernick - CTcard - 08-29-2016

(08-29-2016, 03:01 PM)dabigv link Wrote:Richard Sherman weighs in.

Here is a better recap of what Richard Sherman had to say,

http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/seahawks-richard-sherman-says-he-appreciates-colin-kaepernick-taking-a-stand-but-says-he-could-have-picked-a-better-platform/

Re: OT: Colin Kaepernick - JJJ - 08-29-2016

Regardless of what CK thinks or does, I have always enjoyed the LSJUMB version of the Star Spangled Banner which starts with the solo trumpeter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQLm1gNaEvk

Excellent points by Sherman... - FrankO - 08-29-2016

there are better platforms...

and it is true that sadly discrimination still exists... but that is not the POLICY of this nation, nor of the flag and anthem  representing it.

Sherman far more logical than Kaep



Re: Excellent points by Sherman... - stupac2 - 08-29-2016

(08-29-2016, 03:32 PM)FrankO link Wrote:there are better platforms...

and it is true that sadly discrimination still exists... but that is not the POLICY of this nation, nor of the flag and anthem  representing it.

Sherman far more logical than Kaep

Why do people keep saying this? Take, for instance:

Quote:"In particular, African Americans disproportionately used the first seven days of early voting," [Judge] Motz wrote. "After the receipt of this racial data, the General Assembly amended the bill to eliminate the first week of early voting, shortening the total early voting period from seventeen to ten days."

Motz adds that the law effectively eliminated one of the two "souls-to-the-polls" Sundays, which organize efforts to bring black churches’ parishioners to polling places after services, even by providing transportation to those in need.

And in case it wasn’t obvious the state was targeting black people, the State explicitly said, "[c]ounties with Sunday voting in 2014 were disproportionately black" and "disproportionately Democratic."

This is just one very recent illustration that's in my head, but to deny that there are parts of the US government that are profoundly racist is to stick your head in the sand, and to deny that we're still living with the unaddressed effects of old, more pernicious, mostly dismantled institutional racism (redlining is a brobdingnagian one) is to be obtuse beyond reason.

seems to me that LAW you cite - FrankO - 08-29-2016

applies equally to all... be they black, white, orange or green

Re: OT: Colin Kaepernick - paloalto - 08-29-2016

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17418050/san-francisco-police-union-president-rips-colin-kaepernick

Police chief:
"I only wish Mr. Kaepernick could see the emotional and psychological challenges that our officers face following a fatal encounter," Halloran wrote. "Some are so affected they never return to the streets. In short, Mr. Kaepernick has embarrassed himself, the 49er organization, and the NFL based on a false narrative and misinformation that lacks any factual basis."

Kaepernick:
"The fact that it has blown up like this, I think it's a good thing. It brings awareness," Kaepernick said Sunday. "Now, I think people are really talking about it.  Having conversations about how to make change. What's really going on in this country.


I won’t take a position one way or the other but I do think Kaepernick is a little full of himself if he thinks his actions alone galvanized the country on this or any other issue.


Re: OT: Colin Kaepernick - 81alum - 08-29-2016

He could have stood during the anthem and raised his fist in a black glove.  I wonder if people would have found that more acceptable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics_Black_Power_salute

Tommie Smith and John Carlos are now revered as heroes at SJSU for the highly controversial stand they took for civil rights in 1968.  We just celebrated them as civil rights leaders a few weeks ago, when they returned to campus with Harry Edwards, to kick off the restoration of the SJSU "Speed City" track program.  We now have statues of Tommie and John in the center of campus.  Harry Edwards, by the way--one of Bill Walsh's good friends--appeared with Colin yesterday before practice to talk with him, and Colin calls him a good friend and advisor.  Edwards is still a Forty Niner's consultant originally hired by Walsh,  but what you may not know is that he was also an advisor to Tommie Smith and John Carlos in 1968.  So I certainly see a common lineage to Colin's protest.

Now, if anyone is old enough to remember the reaction of the public to what Tommie and John did during the national anthem in Mexico City--they were hated by almost all of white America.  The venom that was spilled out against them at the time was far stronger than what I have seen so far for Colin.  And now they are heroes to many.

Then again, the country does feel more and more like 1968 in many ways to me.

Re: OT: Colin Kaepernick - fullmetal - 08-29-2016

Here's an interesting take on the controversy, not necessarily reflective of my opinion: http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/08/29/colin-kaepernick-national-anthem-protest-meaning-history

Re: OT: Colin Kaepernick - Canalejas - 08-29-2016

(08-29-2016, 12:46 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:Well, since it is open, and this is tangentially related to Stanford, our former coach (and Kaepernick's former coach) weighs in:

http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/jim-harbaugh-doesnt-respect-colin-kaepernick-sitting-during-national-anthem/

BC

I wouldn't expect anything else from Jim.  His statements on screening the film American Sniper for his team lead me to believe he doesn't have the most nuanced views on patriotism or american national symbols.

Soooo... - FrankO - 08-29-2016

'most nuanced'?..... interesting phrase
   
to me it's quite simple

you either respect the Country, it's flag and anthem...

... or you don't



Re: OT: Colin Kaepernick - 82 Card - 08-29-2016

(08-29-2016, 03:21 PM)JJJ link Wrote:Regardless of what CK thinks or does, I have always enjoyed the LSJUMB version of the Star Spangled Banner which starts with the solo trumpeter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQLm1gNaEvk

For those not familiar with the origins of the band's version of the anthem, an account from the alumni mag archives at https://alumni.stanford.edu/get/page/magazine/article/?article_id=32435 of it's first performance on November 30, 1963, eight days after the assassination of JFK :
Quote:Kennedy's death on November 22 had forced the postponement of Big Game, and the mood remained somber as the teams prepared to take the field the following Saturday. Barnes had brought with him an arrangement of The Star Spangled Banner that he had written at Fresno a few years earlier. As the mournful crowd sat rapt, some in tears, a lone trumpeter played the first half of the national anthem as his Band mates stood by silently, finally joining in for the final few bars. When the song ended, jam-packed Stanford Stadium was as quiet as a church. Barnes calls it “the loudest silence I ever heard.”

Although the arrangement still resonates with many Stanford folks, I have run into people who react as if the Band refused to stand for the anthem. Not all of them are from Cal or Southern Cal.


Re: Soooo... - 82 Card - 08-29-2016

(08-29-2016, 10:35 PM)FrankO link Wrote:'most nuanced'?..... interesting phrase
   
to me it's quite simple

you either respect the Country, it's flag and anthem...

... or you don't

Oh dear.

Re: Soooo... - BostonCard - 08-29-2016

(08-29-2016, 10:35 PM)FrankO link Wrote:'most nuanced'?..... interesting phrase
   
to me it's quite simple

you either respect the Country, it's flag and anthem...

... or you don't

Without speaking specifically about the Kaepernick situation, I beg to differ.  It is possible to love the United States and believe it is the greatest country on earth, and nonetheless believe it could be better and that it is our responsibility as citizens to point out where it does not meet its ideals.  To criticize the country is not to disrespect it; to call attention to its imperfections is not to hate it; to object to certain policies is not to be disloyal to it.  Indeed, to strive to improve the country is probably the greatest act of loyalty a citizen of this nation can undertake.

BC

Re: OT: Colin Kaepernick - Red State - 08-30-2016

I think that the 49er QB's disdain for the flag is tied to the false narrative of a certain hate group that is fomenting hatred and antipathy for police officers across America.

The oppression that I find most disturbing has to do with the economic policies that have made the quality of life for African-Americans worse since 2009: Poverty Up 1.6%, Home Ownership Down 9%, Income Down 1.5%, Food Stamps Up 58%.

Re: OT: Colin Kaepernick - OutsiderFan - 08-30-2016

(08-30-2016, 04:57 AM)Red State link Wrote:I think that the 49er QB's disdain for the flag is tied to the false narrative of a certain hate group that is fomenting hatred and antipathy for police officers across America.

The oppression that I find most disturbing has to do with the economic policies that have made the quality of life for African-Americans worse since 2009: Poverty Up 1.6%, Home Ownership Down 9%, Income Down 1.5%, Food Stamps Up 58%.


This is getting way too close to your personal politics, and not discussion about the rights of the individual to do what he did.  This isn't suppose to be a discussion about Kaepernicks' motivation, but rather the method he chose to express himself.  Stay within those lines and this can be a healthy discussion that proves this board can handle nuanced discussion on a sensitive topic.

Re: OT: Colin Kaepernick - winflop - 08-30-2016

My personal preference is that this topic be locked.  It has nothing to do with Stanford sports and the discussion is turning political.

Re: OT: Colin Kaepernick - JJJ - 08-30-2016

(08-29-2016, 10:44 PM)82 Card link Wrote:For those not familiar with the origins of the band's version of the anthem, an account from the alumni mag archives at https://alumni.stanford.edu/get/page/magazine/article/?article_id=32435 of it's first performance on November 30, 1963, eight days after the assassination of JFK :
Quote:Kennedy's death on November 22 had forced the postponement of Big Game, and the mood remained somber as the teams prepared to take the field the following Saturday. Barnes had brought with him an arrangement of The Star Spangled Banner that he had written at Fresno a few years earlier. As the mournful crowd sat rapt, some in tears, a lone trumpeter played the first half of the national anthem as his Band mates stood by silently, finally joining in for the final few bars. When the song ended, jam-packed Stanford Stadium was as quiet as a church. Barnes calls it “the loudest silence I ever heard.”

Although the arrangement still resonates with many Stanford folks, I have run into people who react as if the Band refused to stand for the anthem. Not all of them are from ןɐɔ or Southern ןɐɔ.

That's a great article on the Band. Thank you for sharing it. I don't know how I missed it when it first came out (or maybe I read it and forgot all about it, which is entirely possible).  8)