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RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 02-25-2023
(02-25-2023, 03:47 PM)Mick Wrote: Now up to six errors, by Coulter, Estrada, Figliotti, Stryffeler, Fitzgerald and Schmitt. That's it boys, get it out of your system.
Sabol went 2/3 with a double and an HR. Now batting third, your starting catcher, Mr. Sabol...
Only one of the seven Giants' pitchers pitched with the big club last year. And it shows, they have given up nine walks, the Cubs have given up just two walks. The Cubs' second pitcher, btw, was their #5 starter last year; and their last pitcher (Leiter) pitched in 35 games at the big league level. All three had ERAs under 4.00 at the major league level.
Maybe, just maybe, this Giants lineup can hit a little.
Sabol also had two pitches go off his glove and one-hopped a throw about 10 feet to the right of second. Unless he is good defensively, which is dubious given his history, he’s more likely a utility player that can be a third catcher.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 02-26-2023
Machado to sign 11 year contract with Pads. So says ESPN.
Giants gave the impression of significantly increasing payroll. But they didn’t. At least not relative to rest of MLB. According to Sportrac. They have the No. 13 payroll. They remain middle of the pack.
At least they showed a willingness this year. Ohtani, if he stays healthy, will get $500 to $600 Million. Probably 12-15 years (MLB may limit it). Big fear is he gets traded at deadline. Dodgers would be team best positioned to make a deal. Which they could do while assuring an extension. They have stripped payroll down. In part, I believe, to make a run at Ohtani.
Giants don’t have near the prospect to deal for Ohtani. It would, I’m sure, cost Harrison , Luciano and another top prospect- Schmitt maybe- for starters.
So, I’m rooting for the Angels to contend. Not likely…..
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 02-26-2023
(02-26-2023, 08:54 AM)lex24 Wrote: Machado to sign 11 year contract with Pads. So says ESPN.
Giants gave the impression of significantly increasing payroll. But they didn’t. At least not relative to rest of MLB. According to Sportrac. They have the No. 13 payroll. They remain middle of the pack.
At least they showed a willingness this year. Ohtani, if he stays healthy, will get $500 to $600 Million. Probably 12-15 years (MLB may limit it). Big fear is he gets traded at deadline. Dodgers would be team best positioned to make a deal. Which they could do while assuring an extension. They have stripped payroll down. In part, I believe, to make a run at Ohtani.
Giants don’t have near the prospect to deal for Ohtani. It would, I’m sure, cost Harrison , Luciano and another top prospect- Schmitt maybe- for starters.
So, I’m rooting for the Angels to contend. Not likely…..
The question is…
Would the Angels trade him to the Dodgers? I don’t see it. Had they been compelled to because the player said he would not resign, that would be like the Yanks trading Judge to the Mets or the Giants trading Posey to the A’s.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 02-26-2023
Giants went up a net $14 million (projected). They added seven free agents:
Conforto, $18 mms.
Manaea, $10 mms.
Stripling, $10 mms.
Rogers, $9 mms.
Haniger, $7 mms.
Jackson, $3 mms.
They also "added" Pederson, at a net increase of $13.65 mms.
They lost:
Rodon ($21.5)
Belt ($18.4)
Longoria ($14.5)
They still owe $10.78 mms. on La Stella and $1 mms. on Melancon.
Giants projected payroll (inclusive of LaStella and Melancon) is $176 million for 22 players -- so they'll need to add a bit for four more players -- total w projected/tax allocations is $214,476,666. Luxury tax in 2023 starts at $230 mms. La Stella comes off next year, Crawford likely to come off. Giants are positioning themselves for a run at Ohtani, I think.
BTW, I worry about the Giants' appeal and finances. After 16 consecutive years of sellouts since opening the park in 2000 and attendance over 3.3 million most years, their attendance has declined to under 2.5 million last year. And no wonder...San Francisco is a cesspool. Businesses downtown are closing. Larry Baer announced a reduction in beer prices from $14 to $9. And tickets are CHEAP, relative to prior years. So much for inflation.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 02-26-2023
Estimated tax payrolls (millions):
Mets $370.5
Yankees $ 286.0
Blue Jays $ 247.3
Phillies $ 246.3
Dodgers $ 238.7
Braves $ 232.6
Angels $ 217.1
Cubs $ 215.1
Padres $ 214.2
Giants $ 211.4
The CBT is 233.0. Look for LA to make some moves to get below that figure. They want to avoid the repeater penalty in order to position themselves for the Ohtani race.
Source: Spotrac
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 02-26-2023
Baseball's a funny game. Giants are behind the Reds, 4-1 as I write this. The Reds are pitching minor leaguers with no MLB experience and one pitcher (Joel Kuhnel) who had a 6.36 ERA with the big league club last year -- and one inning from their stud closer, Alex Diaz, who had a 1.84 ERA, 7 wins, 10 saves.
So the minor leaguers and Kuhnel mow the Giants down. And the Giants get their only run off of the stud closer, Alex Diaz, with an RBI double by Joey Bart. Go figure.
Doval, three up, three strikeouts. Szapucki gave up three, Manaea 1.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 02-26-2023
(02-26-2023, 02:33 PM)Mick Wrote: Baseball's a funny game. Giants are behind the Reds, 4-1 as I write this. The Reds are pitching minor leaguers with no MLB experience and one pitcher (Joel Kuhnel) who had a 6.36 ERA with the big league club last year -- and one inning from their stud closer, Alex Diaz, who had a 1.84 ERA, 7 wins, 10 saves.
So the minor leaguers and Kuhnel mow the Giants down. And the Giants get their only run off of the stud closer, Alex Diaz, with an RBI double by Joey Bart. Go figure.
Doval, three up, three strikeouts. Szapucki gave up three, Manaea 1.
Giants win, 7-6. No errors...imagine that.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 02-26-2023
(02-26-2023, 12:28 PM)Giants Wrote: Estimated tax payrolls (millions):
Mets $370.5
Yankees $ 286.0
Blue Jays $ 247.3
Phillies $ 246.3
Dodgers $ 238.7
Braves $ 232.6
Angels $ 217.1
Cubs $ 215.1
Padres $ 214.2
Giants $ 211.4
The CBT is 233.0. Look for LA to make some moves to get below that figure. They want to avoid the repeater penalty in order to position themselves for the Ohtani race.
Source: Spotrac
Dodgers have already begun that process.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 02-26-2023
(02-26-2023, 08:16 PM)lex24 Wrote:(02-26-2023, 12:28 PM)Giants Wrote: Estimated tax payrolls (millions):
Mets $370.5
Yankees $ 286.0
Blue Jays $ 247.3
Phillies $ 246.3
Dodgers $ 238.7
Braves $ 232.6
Angels $ 217.1
Cubs $ 215.1
Padres $ 214.2
Giants $ 211.4
The CBT is 233.0. Look for LA to make some moves to get below that figure. They want to avoid the repeater penalty in order to position themselves for the Ohtani race.
Source: Spotrac
Dodgers have already begun that process.
They got rid of Trea Turner ($27 mms.), Justin Turner ($10.85 mms.), Cody Bellinger ($12 mms.), Craig Kimbrel ($10 mms.), Tyler Anderson ($13 mms.), Andrew Heaney ($12 mms.), Joey Gallo ($11 mms.), Tommy Kahnle ($5.75 mms.).
They've made a dent...
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - BostonCard - 02-26-2023
(02-26-2023, 11:20 AM)Mick Wrote: And no wonder...San Francisco is a cesspool. Businesses downtown are closing. Larry Baer announced a reduction in beer prices from $14 to $9. And tickets are CHEAP, relative to prior years. So much for inflation.
SoMa has become substantially nicer since 2000, led largely by the Giants (and now Warriors) new homes and UCSF, which has built a substantial research campus and a women, children, and cancer hospital. Plus it probably has the City’s only new housing stock. Maybe SF’s reputation as a whole is affecting the Giants, but the city’s prosblems are not especially prominent around the stadium.
BC
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 02-27-2023
(02-26-2023, 11:27 PM)BostonCard Wrote:(02-26-2023, 11:20 AM)Mick Wrote: And no wonder...San Francisco is a cesspool. Businesses downtown are closing. Larry Baer announced a reduction in beer prices from $14 to $9. And tickets are CHEAP, relative to prior years. So much for inflation.
SoMa has become substantially nicer since 2000, led largely by the Giants (and now Warriors) new homes and UCSF, which has built a substantial research campus and a women, children, and cancer hospital. Plus it probably has the City’s only new housing stock. Maybe SF’s reputation as a whole is affecting the Giants, but the city’s prosblems are not especially prominent around the stadium.
BC
I didn't mean to indicate that the specific area around the ballpark was in poor shape, though I've been aggressively accosted by unhoused and/or deranged people immediately after two of the last three games that I attended. I was referring to broader, SF-based demographic forces that are concerning to the Giants, that have resulted in an attendance free-fall over the last seven years. In fact, the Giants really struggled with ticket pricing on the secondary market in early 2019, and it accelerated during the latter half of 2019.:
1) The pandemic clearly had an effect on the volume of businesses and employees in the city. In fact, the Giants noted as much, even in the 107 win season, that they had much more difficulty during the week than on weekends.
2) After one year without the Giants and another year with limited capacity, the collective "muscle memory" relaxed, so to speak. People found other things to do (
3) I was referring more to the downtown/Financial District than the Chase Center/UCSF area. They aren't all that far apart, and it's that area that suffers. It feels like it's emptying out. My son left that area to live in North Beach. (and yes, I know the Giants finished 12th in overall MLB attendance last year at just under 2.5 mms).
4) Secondary market tickets, as I've mentioned, are CHEAP compared to what you can get on www.sfgiants.com.
5) Collective attendance at regular season games peaked at 79.6 million in 2007, then broadly declined until 2019, zero in 2020, 45.28 mms. in 2021, and fell to 64.49 million in 2022.
6) Last year's 99 day lockout certainly didn't help. MLB missed its "selling season". Management and players were particularly vicious to each other. I know that it took me a long time to want to attend games after the 1981 strike, when I was 18.
Small market and non-competitive MLB clubs will be strapped (inflation, gas price surge, Russia v. Ukraine, etc.). It wasn't all that long ago that SFG was in that category.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Goose - 02-27-2023
(02-26-2023, 11:27 PM)BostonCard Wrote: SoMa has become substantially nicer since 2000, led largely by the Giants (and now Warriors) new homes and UCSF, which has built a substantial research campus and a women, children, and cancer hospital. Plus it probably has the City’s only new housing stock. Maybe SF’s reputation as a whole is affecting the Giants, but the city’s prosblems are not especially prominent around the stadium.In my experience the area around the train station is pretty bad. There are lots of homeless and many of them are not shy. In all large cities transportation hubs seem to attract panhandlers, but many of these people have tents nearby so they are always there. It is an intimidating experience if one does not expect it, as many "casual" train passengers do not. Not at all a reason to come back.
BC
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 02-27-2023
Giants won second straight, now 2-1. And second straight game with no errors. Dare to dream...
No homers, six doubles, including Schmitt, Sabol, Estrada & Wade. BTW, Ramos and Estrada came into camp tubby, says Kepler. Junis and Pederson in excellent shape. Oldster Brandon Crawford had a stolen base, Sabol gave up a stolen base.
Stanford corner...Slater still a no-show. Piscotty was hit by a pitch, scored a run and lifted for a minor leaguer. Miller didn't play. Beck didn't play.
Webb started, gave up two runs in two innings. And for those of you who saw "P. Sandoval" pitching for the Angels, it's Patrick Sandoval, not the Panda.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 02-28-2023
(02-26-2023, 08:53 PM)Mick Wrote:(02-26-2023, 08:16 PM)lex24 Wrote:(02-26-2023, 12:28 PM)Giants Wrote: Estimated tax payrolls (millions):
Mets $370.5
Yankees $ 286.0
Blue Jays $ 247.3
Phillies $ 246.3
Dodgers $ 238.7
Braves $ 232.6
Angels $ 217.1
Cubs $ 215.1
Padres $ 214.2
Giants $ 211.4
The CBT is 233.0. Look for LA to make some moves to get below that figure. They want to avoid the repeater penalty in order to position themselves for the Ohtani race.
Source: Spotrac
Dodgers have already begun that process.
They got rid of Trea Turner ($27 mms.), Justin Turner ($10.85 mms.), Cody Bellinger ($12 mms.), Craig Kimbrel ($10 mms.), Tyler Anderson ($13 mms.), Andrew Heaney ($12 mms.), Joey Gallo ($11 mms.), Tommy Kahnle ($5.75 mms.).
They've made a dent...
Not sure how the tax payroll is determined. Giants 2023 payroll figure - according to Sportrac is about $173 million. 13th. Can anyone explain the difference?
Giants- you shorted Pads. Number is $248 Million.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 02-28-2023
(02-28-2023, 07:52 AM)lex24 Wrote:(02-26-2023, 08:53 PM)Mick Wrote:(02-26-2023, 08:16 PM)lex24 Wrote:(02-26-2023, 12:28 PM)Giants Wrote: Estimated tax payrolls (millions):
Mets $370.5
Yankees $ 286.0
Blue Jays $ 247.3
Phillies $ 246.3
Dodgers $ 238.7
Braves $ 232.6
Angels $ 217.1
Cubs $ 215.1
Padres $ 214.2
Giants $ 211.4
The CBT is 233.0. Look for LA to make some moves to get below that figure. They want to avoid the repeater penalty in order to position themselves for the Ohtani race.
Source: Spotrac
Dodgers have already begun that process.
They got rid of Trea Turner ($27 mms.), Justin Turner ($10.85 mms.), Cody Bellinger ($12 mms.), Craig Kimbrel ($10 mms.), Tyler Anderson ($13 mms.), Andrew Heaney ($12 mms.), Joey Gallo ($11 mms.), Tommy Kahnle ($5.75 mms.).
They've made a dent...
Not sure how the tax payroll is determined. Giants 2023 payroll figure - according to Sportrac is about $173 million. 13th. Can anyone explain the difference?
Giants- you shorted Pads. Number is $248 Million.
The Padres figure has been updated since I wrote my post. It is now 246.0. The Machedo deal changed their total.
The biggest difference between the tax payroll and the actual payroll is benefits. The are calculated in the former not the latter. Also, minor league spending is calculated as part of the tax payroll along with some other items relating to the AAV of contracts.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 02-28-2023
(02-27-2023, 11:20 AM)Mick Wrote:(02-26-2023, 11:27 PM)BostonCard Wrote:(02-26-2023, 11:20 AM)Mick Wrote: And no wonder...San Francisco is a cesspool. Businesses downtown are closing. Larry Baer announced a reduction in beer prices from $14 to $9. And tickets are CHEAP, relative to prior years. So much for inflation.
SoMa has become substantially nicer since 2000, led largely by the Giants (and now Warriors) new homes and UCSF, which has built a substantial research campus and a women, children, and cancer hospital. Plus, it probably has the City’s only new housing stock. Maybe SF’s reputation as a whole is affecting the Giants, but the city’s problems are not especially prominent around the stadium.
BC
I didn't mean to indicate that the specific area around the ballpark was in poor shape, though I've been aggressively accosted by unhoused and/or deranged people immediately after two of the last three games that I attended. I was referring to broader, SF-based demographic forces that are concerning to the Giants, that have resulted in an attendance free-fall over the last seven years. In fact, the Giants really struggled with ticket pricing on the secondary market in early 2019, and it accelerated during the latter half of 2019.:
1) The pandemic clearly had an effect on the volume of businesses and employees in the city. In fact, the Giants noted as much, even in the 107 win season, that they had much more difficulty during the week than on weekends.
2) After one year without the Giants and another year with limited capacity, the collective "muscle memory" relaxed, so to speak. People found other things to do.
3) I was referring more to the downtown/Financial District than the Chase Center/UCSF area. They aren't all that far apart, and it's that area that suffers. It feels like it's emptying out. My son left that area to live in North Beach. (and yes, I know the Giants finished 12th in overall MLB attendance last year at just under 2.5 mms).
4) Secondary market tickets, as I've mentioned, are CHEAP compared to what you can get on www.sfgiants.com.
5) Collective attendance at regular season games peaked at 79.6 million in 2007, then broadly declined until 2019, zero in 2020, 45.28 mms. in 2021, and fell to 64.49 million in 2022.
6) Last year's 99 day lockout certainly didn't help. MLB missed its "selling season". Management and players were particularly vicious to each other. I know that it took me a long time to want to attend games after the 1981 strike, when I was 18.
Small market and non-competitive MLB clubs will be strapped (inflation, gas price surge, Russia v. Ukraine, etc.). It wasn't all that long ago that SFG was in that category.
In two days, I've received two e-mails touting $10 tickets and "extending the $10 ticket sale" for their first three home series including the Dodgers. Their Opening Day spring training game in 70 degree sunshine was half full.
I wonder how worried they are about attendance this year?
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - BostonCard - 02-28-2023
(02-27-2023, 11:20 AM)Mick Wrote: I didn't mean to indicate that the specific area around the ballpark was in poor shape, though I've been aggressively accosted by unhoused and/or deranged people immediately after two of the last three games that I attended. I was referring to broader, SF-based demographic forces that are concerning to the Giants, that have resulted in an attendance free-fall over the last seven years. In fact, the Giants really struggled with ticket pricing on the secondary market in early 2019, and it accelerated during the latter half of 2019.:
1) The pandemic clearly had an effect on the volume of businesses and employees in the city. In fact, the Giants noted as much, even in the 107 win season, that they had much more difficulty during the week than on weekends.
2) After one year without the Giants and another year with limited capacity, the collective "muscle memory" relaxed, so to speak. People found other things to do (
3) I was referring more to the downtown/Financial District than the Chase Center/UCSF area. They aren't all that far apart, and it's that area that suffers. It feels like it's emptying out. My son left that area to live in North Beach. (and yes, I know the Giants finished 12th in overall MLB attendance last year at just under 2.5 mms).
4) Secondary market tickets, as I've mentioned, are CHEAP compared to what you can get on www.sfgiants.com.
5) Collective attendance at regular season games peaked at 79.6 million in 2007, then broadly declined until 2019, zero in 2020, 45.28 mms. in 2021, and fell to 64.49 million in 2022.
6) Last year's 99 day lockout certainly didn't help. MLB missed its "selling season". Management and players were particularly vicious to each other. I know that it took me a long time to want to attend games after the 1981 strike, when I was 18.
Small market and non-competitive MLB clubs will be strapped (inflation, gas price surge, Russia v. Ukraine, etc.). It wasn't all that long ago that SFG was in that category.
All fair points, and @Goose, you are right about the Caltrain terminal, which, to be fair, is only one block away and can be a bit jarring if you are not expecting it. But SoMa has transformed from when what was then Pac Bell Park was first built, mostly for the better.
BC
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 03-01-2023
Gavin Lux out with ACL. That is going to hurt dodgers. He was taking over SS for Trea Taylor. My guess is Chris ends up at SS.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 03-01-2023
What's the over/under on the free agent contract that Ohtani will score next year? I've seen $500 mms. to $600 mms. I think it will take $545 mms. and he becomes a Dodger. Farhan can't close.
Shohei Ohtani is the next superstar SF Giants fans can dream of (sfgate.com)
And speaking of Ohtani...everyone's aware of Kyle Harrison (who is pitching today, btw). You may not be aware of Keaton Winn, turning heads in spring training. He struck out Ohtani and got Trout to ground out. He lost three years due to COVID and Tommy John surgery, but he can throw in triple digits. He's only thrown 278 innings since he was drafted in 2018. Fastball, split finger, slider.
SF Giants News: Unheralded pitching prospect dazzles in Cactus League debut (aroundthefoghorn.com)
The catcher that nobody wanted, Blake Sabol is 3/5 with a home run and two doubles.
Blake Sabol standing out at San Francisco Giants Spring Training - McCovey Chronicles
And Joey Bart has two doubles and three hits in four plate appearances...and no strikeouts.
2023 Giants Player Hitting Stats | San Francisco Giants (mlb.com)
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 03-01-2023
(03-01-2023, 09:20 AM)Mick Wrote: What's the over/under on the free agent contract that Ohtani will score next year? I've seen $500 mms. to $600 mms. I think it will take $545 mms. and he becomes a Dodger. Farhan can't close.
Shohei Ohtani is the next superstar SF Giants fans can dream of (sfgate.com)
And speaking of Ohtani...everyone's aware of Kyle Harrison (who is pitching today, btw). You may not be aware of Keaton Winn, turning heads in spring training. He struck out Ohtani and got Trout to ground out. He lost three years due to COVID and Tommy John surgery, but he can throw in triple digits. He's only thrown 278 innings since he was drafted in 2018. Fastball, split finger, slider.
SF Giants News: Unheralded pitching prospect dazzles in Cactus League debut (aroundthefoghorn.com)
The catcher that nobody wanted, Blake Sabol is 3/5 with a home run and two doubles.
Blake Sabol standing out at San Francisco Giants Spring Training - McCovey Chronicles
And Joey Bart has two doubles and three hits in four plate appearances...and no strikeouts.
2023 Giants Player Hitting Stats | San Francisco Giants (mlb.com)
Ohtani 37.5 x 12 = $450MM
Dodgers, Angels, Giants, Yankees….
Winn - good article about him at The Athletic a week or so ago. If he can stay healthy, he could be a nice addition to the staff in the future.
Sabol - a left-handed DH candidate if something happens to Pederson. Just keep him away from catching.
Bart - as Bart goes, so go the Giants. Among position players, he may be the the most important piece of the puzzle.