Outside Topic OT: Giants 2023 thread - Printable Version
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Outside Topic OT: Giants 2023 thread (/thread-23596.html)
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Outside Topic OT: Giants 2023 thread (/thread-23596.html)
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 02-14-2023
(01-10-2023, 04:07 PM)Mick Wrote: Seriously outdated, predicted New and Updated WAG at SF Giants Opening Day Roster:
1. Wilmer Flores, UT/I, R
2. LaMonte Wade, 1B, L
3. David Villar, 3B, R
4. Brandon Crawford, SS, L
5. J.D. Davis, UT/I, R
6. Thairo Estrada, 2B (also UT, Spot OF), R
7. Joc Pederson, DH, Spot OF, L
8. Mike Yastrzemski, CF, L
9. Mike Conforto, LF
10. Mitch Haniger, RF
11. Austin Slater, CF, R
12. Joey Bart, C, R
13. Blake Sabol, C Roberto Perez, C
14. Logan Webb, SP
15. Anthony DeSclafani, SP
16. Alex Cobb, SP
17. Alex Wood, SP
18. Ross Stripling, SP
19. Sean Manaea, LRP
20. Jakob Junis, LRP
21. Camilo Doval, RP
22. Taylor Rogers, RP
23. Tyler Rogers, RP
24. John Brebbia, RP
25. Scott Alexander, RP
26. Sammy Long until Luke Jackson, RP returns from 60 day IL.
In case of injury/terrific performance:
Pitching/Maybe Cole Waites, R. J. Dabovich, Randy Rodriguez or Thomas Szapucki.
Infield/Maybe Isan Diaz or Brett Wisely
Outfield/Maybe/doubtful Heliot Ramos, Gonzalez or Piscotty.
Tristan Beck, Isan Diaz, Jose Cruz, Sean Hjelle, Sammy Long, Marco Luciano, Luis Matos, Heliot Ramos, Randy Rodriguez, Thomas Szapucki, Cole Waites, Keaton Winn, Brett Wisely all start the season in Sacramento or get traded. Team cuts ties with Yunior Marte, senior citizens La Stella, Longoria and Belt.
Giants 2023 Opening Day roster projections (mlb.com)
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 02-14-2023
Conforto - LF.
Otherwise, the list looks correct (pending the usual spring training injuries).
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 02-14-2023
One other item that I haven't yet seen mentioned...last year's preseason -- unlike the preseason to 107-win 2021 -- was marred by the second-longest work stoppage in history, a 99-day lockout, which, combined with an insistence on a 162-game season meant that spring training was severely truncated.
My working theory is that (a) an older team like the Giants take longer to get in game-ready shape, and (b) that nagging, persisting injuries are the result of a truncated spring training and c) a team that depends on players to play a myriad of positions needs time to round their defense into shape and (d) defense improves with repetition, which wasn't afforded in last year's short preseason, and (e) when a team has a demonstrably superior coaching/training/nutrition/other staff like the Giants have; the longer the spring training, the more effective the advantages from the Giants' numerically superior staff.
That's why there were 107 wins in 2021 and 81 wins in 2022.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 02-14-2023
Just an interesting aside...generally speaking, the older the average age of a team, the more likely they were to score runs:
Average age, under 26: 4.31 runs per game
Average age, 26: 4.09 rpg
Average age, 27: 4.16 rpg
Average age, 28, 4.20 rpg
Average age, 29, 4.51 rpg
Average age, 30, 4.70 rpg
Cleveland was the outlier on the young end, they were the only team that averaged less than 26 years old.
The Giants and the Yankees were the only two teams with an average age at 30 or older.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 02-15-2023
(02-14-2023, 03:28 PM)Giants Wrote: Conforto - LF.
Otherwise, the list looks correct (pending the usual spring training injuries).
Or trades. Flores and JD Davis are so similar. From a roster construction standpoint keeping both doesn’t make sense. I think it’s possible one gets traded.
Pitchers and catchers report today. It’s an appropriate day to FREE PHOGGE.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - BobK - 02-15-2023
First spring training game in about 10 days. The new rules
Bigger bases. Result hoped for less injuries more stolen bases
Pitch clock. This includes the next batter must be in the batters box not just between pitches . If not batter has a strike called. If pitcher is not in the wind up ball called. Result more stolen bases more Balks and per results in minors games 26 minutes faster
Infielders must be in the infield prior to the pitch with 2 on each side of second base. No they can’t suddenly sprint elsewhere Result ? Real baseball well prior to the Ted Willians shift lol
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 02-15-2023
(02-15-2023, 09:46 AM)BobK Wrote: First spring training game in about 10 days. The new rules
Bigger bases. Result hoped for less injuries more stolen bases
Pitch clock. This includes the next batter must be in the batters box not just between pitches . If not batter has a strike called. If pitcher is not in the wind up ball called. Result more stolen bases more Balks and per results in minors games 26 minutes faster
Infielders must be in the infield prior to the pitch with 2 on each side of second base. No they can’t suddenly sprint elsewhere Result ? Real baseball well prior to the Ted Willians shift lol
They will enforce existing balk rules. I think the timing is 15 seconds for pitchers with no base runners, and 20 seconds for pitchers with runners on base. Personally, I'd prefer a mechanically called strike zone rather than the umps, and have ever since Eric Gregg.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - BobK - 02-15-2023
Eric Greeg has been calling balls a foor to 18 inches outside elsewhere since he died in 2006.
Hate the idea of robo ump
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 02-15-2023
(02-15-2023, 10:39 AM)BobK Wrote: Eric Greeg has been calling balls a foor to 18 inches outside elsewhere since he died in 2006.
Hate the idea of robo ump
I recall reading that (depending upon the umpire) between 6% and 13% of all balls and strikes are called inaccurately. That doesn't seem like an acceptable tolerance level to me. And I'm very glad we have instant replay in the major sports. Just makes sense.
If I wasn't convinced before, this convinced me. This was the fifth game of the five game NLDS playoff series in 2021, 107-win Giants vs. 106-win Dodgers, bottom of the ninth inning. Giants are behind by one run, runner on first base. Double ties the game, home run wins it.
The plate umpire appeals to the 1B-umpire on Flores' checked swing on a 2-2 count. Flores' checked swing was a SOLID six to eight inches behind the front edge of home plate, traditionally the point where you could BEGIN to call it a strike. Check out the video at the 1:21 mark below where the independent announcers (not any of the SF Giant announcers) just GROAN. "You can't end the game that way. It's over. It's not reviewable."
Los Angeles Dodgers win on a check swing (What a Brutal Call) - YouTube
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - OutsiderFan - 02-15-2023
This deserves its own thread - discussion of MLB rules changes, but I guess it will go in a thread about the Gyros....
To me, the biggest rule change is the limited throws to a base to check a runner. Pitchers will now get 2 attempts to pick off a runner at a base. If the runner is not picked off on the 3rd attempt, he will be awarded the next base. I'm pretty sure this 2 free throw over limit is per runner, not per runner per batter.
Shifts may be being banned, but MLB was played without or minimal shifts for a long time. A pitch clock may be new, but Pitchers who worked fast created the same pace of play that will exist with a clock.
But limiting the number of throws to a base with a runner on that base, is a giant change. The stolen base - with this throw-over limit and bigger bases - is going to become a more important element of the game than it ever has been. Speed and defense - with shift bans - might actually supplant Home Run power as the preferred attribute in a MLB player.
This means getting on base by any way possible will now be the priority. Pitchers are going to HATE the new rules. They are going to be pitching with runners on base so much more frequently than they have in a very long time. I expect scoring will increase quite a bit.
Thoughts?
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 02-15-2023
(02-15-2023, 03:11 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: This deserves its own thread - discussion of MLB rules changes, but I guess it will go in a thread about the Gyros....
To me, the biggest rule change is the limited throws to a base to check a runner. Pitchers will now get 2 attempts to pick off a runner at a base. If the runner is not picked off on the 3rd attempt, he will be awarded the next base. I'm pretty sure this 2 free throw over limit is per runner, not per runner per batter.
Shifts may be being banned, but MLB was played without or minimal shifts for a long time. A pitch clock may be new, but Pitchers who worked fast created the same pace of play that will exist with a clock.
But limiting the number of throws to a base with a runner on that base, is a giant change. The stolen base - with this throw-over limit and bigger bases - is going to become a more important element of the game than it ever has been. Speed and defense - with shift bans - might actually supplant Home Run power as the preferred attribute in a MLB player.
This means getting on base by any way possible will now be the priority. Pitchers are going to HATE the new rules. They are going to be pitching with runners on base so much more frequently than they have in a very long time. I expect scoring will increase quite a bit.
Thoughts?
The distance between the bases will be reduced by 4.5 inches, thanks to the larger bases. That's going to increase the stolen bases. And as mentioned before, the Giants had the second best stolen base percentage in baseball last year.
An umpire once prevented Satchel Paige from warm up throws. Paige walked the first batter on four pitches, then threw over to first 20 times to warm up his arm. Guess we won't see that again.
And neither Conforto or Lucian are 100% yet. We knew Luke Jackson was hurt. Cole Waites got hurt 10 days ago. Ruh roh.
Top prospect Marco Luciano still recovering from back injury as spring training begins | KNBR
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - skip75 - 02-15-2023
(02-15-2023, 03:11 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: To me, the biggest rule change is the limited throws to a base to check a runner. Pitchers will now get 2 attempts to pick off a runner at a base. If the runner is not picked off on the 3rd attempt, he will be awarded the next base. I'm pretty sure this 2 free throw over limit is per runner, not per runner per batter.The rule limits a pitcher to 2 "disengagements" (pickoff attempt, fake, or just stepping off the rubber) per plate appearance - not per runner. In any case, I agree that this one is big and will make spring training games interesting just to start to get an idea of how both offense & defense might deal with it.
BTW, to me the issue of incessant pickoff attempts is a bigger deal in college baseball than in MLB.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 02-15-2023
I hadn't realized this, but the Giants' pitching guru, Brian Bannister, had refused to get COVID vaccinated last year, and was therefore limited solely to remote work with pitchers. I couldn't imagine how that would be successful.
The COVID vaccination response is no longer mandatory, so Bryan will work with the Giants' pitchers in person this year. Just in the nick of time:
Giants’ Brian Bannister back in uniform after MLB lifts vaccination requirement for coaches - The Athletic
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 02-16-2023
(02-15-2023, 05:22 PM)skip75 Wrote:(02-15-2023, 03:11 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: To me, the biggest rule change is the limited throws to a base to check a runner. Pitchers will now get 2 attempts to pick off a runner at a base. If the runner is not picked off on the 3rd attempt, he will be awarded the next base. I'm pretty sure this 2 free throw over limit is per runner, not per runner per batter.The rule limits a pitcher to 2 "disengagements" (pickoff attempt, fake, or just stepping off the rubber) per plate appearance - not per runner. In any case, I agree that this one is big and will make spring training games interesting just to start to get an idea of how both offense & defense might deal with it.
BTW, to me the issue of incessant pickoff attempts is a bigger deal in college baseball than in MLB.
Gonna be interesting. In the days when stolen bases were actually a big part of the game pitchers would vary tempos - freeze the runner or occasionally quick pitch. Step,off band chase them back. Throw over.Pitchouts were common. Roger Craig would pitch out on back to back pitches occasionally.
The running game has been gone for the most part for several years. The Giants From about 18-20 went nearly 2 years between pitch outs. Can’t remember if they have ever pitched out in Kapler reign. Hell. I wonder if Bart even knows how.
The trifecta - tine clock. Bigger bases and limited throw overs should increase the run game. Giants, unfortunately, will not be able to take advantage, cause they are still slower than mud.
Henderson or Brock have stolen about 150 bags a year with these changes.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 02-16-2023
(02-16-2023, 08:25 PM)lex24 Wrote:(02-15-2023, 05:22 PM)skip75 Wrote:(02-15-2023, 03:11 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: To me, the biggest rule change is the limited throws to a base to check a runner. Pitchers will now get 2 attempts to pick off a runner at a base. If the runner is not picked off on the 3rd attempt, he will be awarded the next base. I'm pretty sure this 2 free throw over limit is per runner, not per runner per batter.The rule limits a pitcher to 2 "disengagements" (pickoff attempt, fake, or just stepping off the rubber) per plate appearance - not per runner. In any case, I agree that this one is big and will make spring training games interesting just to start to get an idea of how both offense & defense might deal with it.
BTW, to me the issue of incessant pickoff attempts is a bigger deal in college baseball than in MLB.
Gonna be interesting. In the days when stolen bases were actually a big part of the game pitchers would vary tempos - freeze the runner or occasionally quick pitch. Step,off band chase them back. Throw over.Pitchouts were common. Roger Craig would pitch out on back to back pitches occasionally.
The running game has been gone for the most part for several years. The Giants From about 18-20 went nearly 2 years between pitch outs. Can’t remember if they have ever pitched out in Kapler reign. Hell. I wonder if Bart even knows how.
The trifecta - tine clock. Bigger bases and limited throw overs should increase the run game. Giants, unfortunately, will not be able to take advantage, cause they are still slower than mud.
Henderson or Brock have stolen about 150 bags a year with these changes.
Giants were fifth in MLB in stolen base percentage last year with 64 stolen bases in 80 attempts (80%). Only the White Sox, Dodgers, Guardians and Marlins finished ahead of them.
The Giants' problem is that they didn't try to steal enough. They went 24-27 in one-run games last year (and 35-19 in 2021, 10 full games better). How much better could they have done if they'd stolen more bases? Slater stole 12 bases in 13 attempts. Estrada stole 21 in 27 attempts. Yaz stole 5 in 6 attempts. SFG Minor leaguer Luis Gonzales stole 10 in 12 attempts. Even ponderous Joey Bart stole two in three attempts.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 02-17-2023
(02-16-2023, 08:46 PM)Mick Wrote:(02-16-2023, 08:25 PM)lex24 Wrote:(02-15-2023, 05:22 PM)skip75 Wrote:(02-15-2023, 03:11 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: To me, the biggest rule change is the limited throws to a base to check a runner. Pitchers will now get 2 attempts to pick off a runner at a base. If the runner is not picked off on the 3rd attempt, he will be awarded the next base. I'm pretty sure this 2 free throw over limit is per runner, not per runner per batter.The rule limits a pitcher to 2 "disengagements" (pickoff attempt, fake, or just stepping off the rubber) per plate appearance - not per runner. In any case, I agree that this one is big and will make spring training games interesting just to start to get an idea of how both offense & defense might deal with it.
BTW, to me the issue of incessant pickoff attempts is a bigger deal in college baseball than in MLB.
Gonna be interesting. In the days when stolen bases were actually a big part of the game pitchers would vary tempos - freeze the runner or occasionally quick pitch. Step,off band chase them back. Throw over.Pitchouts were common. Roger Craig would pitch out on back to back pitches occasionally.
The running game has been gone for the most part for several years. The Giants From about 18-20 went nearly 2 years between pitch outs. Can’t remember if they have ever pitched out in Kapler reign. Hell. I wonder if Bart even knows how.
The trifecta - tine clock. Bigger bases and limited throw overs should increase the run game. Giants, unfortunately, will not be able to take advantage, cause they are still slower than mud.
Henderson or Brock have stolen about 150 bags a year with these changes.
Giants were fifth in MLB in stolen base percentage last year with 64 stolen bases in 80 attempts (80%). Only the White Sox, Dodgers, Guardians and Marlins finished ahead of them.
The Giants' problem is that they didn't try to steal enough. They went 24-27 in one-run games last year (and 35-19 in 2021, 10 full games better). How much better could they have done if they'd stolen more bases? Slater stole 12 bases in 13 attempts. Estrada stole 21 in 27 attempts. Yaz stole 5 in 6 attempts. SFG Minor leaguer Luis Gonzales stole 10 in 12 attempts. Even ponderous Joey Bart stole two in three attempts.
Sorry Mick, but that’s a meaningless stat. Giants were the slowest team in baseball last year. One of the slowest I’ve seen. They didn’t have the team speed to attempt more steals. Nor did they improve on that weakness in the off season.
I’m hoping the rule changes brings back the running game. Baseball needs it.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - BostonCard - 02-17-2023
Looks like Manny Machado will be opting out of his contract from the Padres...
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/35681036/padres-manny-machado-says-plans-opt-2023
BC
lex24 - lex24 - 02-19-2023
Spring training is upon us! I think the main battles for non-pitchers will be catcher and first base. It’s the latter I’m most interested in. Because if it goes as it appears it provides a window into the mentality of the organization. Here’s why. JD Davis potentially is the best hitter on the team. Righty or lefty pitcher doesn’t matter. The career splits are nearly identical. Defense and injuries have held him back. He’s a butcher at third. But let’s assume he’s not Dick Stuart and can be a decent first baseman. If that is the case, he should play everyday. There is no reason, other than an organizational overemphasis, to platoon him with Wade, Even if we assume Wade would have a slightly better OPS; which is a questionable assumption. If Wade is significantly better defensively, that changes the calculus. But assuming he’s not, having Davis as an everday first baseman opens a roster spot for a middle infielder. Someone that can play second base on the days Estrada moves over to spell Crawford. (Estrada unfortunately is the only backup SS option right now, unless Will Wilson surprises. If Crawford gets hurt - big trouble. And if you question that, consider that even in a Crawford down year, Giants were 8 games over .500 when he started. He is the most indispensable player on the roster.)
The Giants seriously lack roster balance. Obviously things can and do change over spring for a myriad of reasons. But if camp broke today, I think it’s safe to assume that the 11 non-catcher non-pitchers would be:
Inf - Wade, Davis, Flores, Estrada, Crawford, Villar
OF - Haniger, Yaz, Slater, Conforto, Joc.
2 true middle infielders. Which is why they talk about Villar taking reps at 2B this spring. Only other option is Flores at second. Wilmer is a pro. Like him a lot. But he has no range. He’s best suited on the corners and DH.
Davis thus becomes, in my eyes, a very important guy to watch. If he proves he can handle first base adequately, Wade should be expendable. Getting a position locked down with a regular is a good thing. Didn’t FZ tell us they wanted to do that prior to the Winter? . Add a middle infielder with some defensive ability (speed would be nice). Diaz and Wisley are the current possibilities of the 40. (Please no Donnie Walton). Wisely can run. Diaz has some power. Unfortunately, neither are known for their glove. I don’t know who is a possibility to acquire via trade as the third MIF. If anyone.
If Davis is a liability defensively at first base, then he’s relegated to platooning at DH and getting occasional starts at third, first and left. Defense be damned.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - BobK - 02-19-2023
Thanks. Intersting that Peterson will be taking reps at 1B
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 02-19-2023
(02-19-2023, 10:03 AM)BobK Wrote: Thanks. Intersting that Peterson will be taking reps at 1B
Or, scary!