Class of 2019 - Printable Version
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RE: Class of 2019 - TinderForMidgets - 10-17-2018
(10-17-2018, 06:44 AM)Publius Wrote:(10-17-2018, 06:12 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: It's not so much Stanford can't flip guys committed to blue blood programs, it's more that nobody ever chooses between Stanford and Oklahoma. Texas, Michigan, Notre Dame, USC, yes.
Caleb Kelly a couple years ago was only guy I can remember even maybe considering OU am deathly Stanford. Though Stanford ended up with Caleb Kelly, he is not the one offered by Oklahoma.
Other Cardboarders should feel free to correct if any of this is wrong. Glyn Milburn got forced by his stepfather to choose Oklahoma over Stanford. He secretly preferred Stanford and got good grades and transferred when he was old enough to sign his own papers to transfer.
So the exception that proves the rule!
What kind of father prefers Oklahoma over Stanford?!?!? Every parent I meet wants to send their kid to Stanford at all costs.
RE: Class of 2019 - SamuelMcF - 10-18-2018
(10-17-2018, 10:39 PM)TanaciousD Wrote: What kind of father prefers Oklahoma over Stanford?!?!? Every parent I meet wants to send their kid to Stanford at all costs.
What kind of father prefers Arkansas over Stanford?!?!?
What kind of mother prefers Ohio State over Stanford?!?!?
Do we really wanna keep doing this?
RE: Class of 2019 - newguy - 10-22-2018
Top 100 WR Elijah Higgins is nearing a commitment, per 247.
And 247 has moved him from 29% Stanford to 56% in the last few days.
Let's keep our fingers crossed.
RE: Class of 2019 - OutsiderFan - 10-22-2018
(10-22-2018, 03:25 PM)newguy Wrote: Top 100 WR Elijah Higgins is nearing a commitment, per 247.
And 247 has moved him from 29% Stanford to 56% in the last few days.
Let's keep our fingers crossed.
Hard to imagine why any top WR would want to come to Stanford. WRs just don't get featured in Shaw's offense. But if he wants to come, would be great to have. Wedington, St. Brown, Wilson, Fehoko, Bowman, and Higgins would be quite a WR corps.
RE: Class of 2019 - BostonCard - 10-22-2018
(10-22-2018, 05:29 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(10-22-2018, 03:25 PM)newguy Wrote: Top 100 WR Elijah Higgins is nearing a commitment, per 247.
And 247 has moved him from 29% Stanford to 56% in the last few days.
Let's keep our fingers crossed.
Hard to imagine why any top WR would want to come to Stanford. WRs just don't get featured in Shaw's offense. But if he wants to come, would be great to have. Wedington, St. Brown, Wilson, Fehoko, Bowman, and Higgins would be quite a WR corps.
JJ Arcega-Whiteside, who is third in the nation in touchdown catches, (he leads the Pac-12 by 3 over the #2 receiver) and is currently second in the Pac-12 in receiving yards per game, would beg to disagree with you.
BC
RE: Class of 2019 - ChicagoCard - 10-23-2018
When does DiCosmo declare, or has he already?
RE: Class of 2019 - PalmTree - 10-23-2018
(10-22-2018, 05:29 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(10-22-2018, 03:25 PM)newguy Wrote: Top 100 WR Elijah Higgins is nearing a commitment, per 247.
And 247 has moved him from 29% Stanford to 56% in the last few days.
Let's keep our fingers crossed.
Hard to imagine why any top WR would want to come to Stanford. WRs just don't get featured in Shaw's offense. But if he wants to come, would be great to have. Wedington, St. Brown, Wilson, Fehoko, Bowman, and Higgins would be quite a WR corps.
(10-22-2018, 08:50 PM)BostonCard Wrote:(10-22-2018, 05:29 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(10-22-2018, 03:25 PM)newguy Wrote: Top 100 WR Elijah Higgins is nearing a commitment, per 247.
And 247 has moved him from 29% Stanford to 56% in the last few days.
Let's keep our fingers crossed.
Hard to imagine why any top WR would want to come to Stanford. WRs just don't get featured in Shaw's offense. But if he wants to come, would be great to have. Wedington, St. Brown, Wilson, Fehoko, Bowman, and Higgins would be quite a WR corps.
JJ Arcega-Whiteside, who is third in the nation in touchdown catches, (he leads the Pac-12 by 3 over the #2 receiver) and is currently second in the Pac-12 in receiving yards per game, would beg to disagree with you.
BC
+ Arcega-Whiteside and Trenton Irwin were both Parade 1st Team AA WRs
RE: Class of 2019 - OutsiderFan - 10-23-2018
JJAW is #60 in the country in catches per game. How can a guy so good get so few opportunities?
JJAW is #57 in the country in yards per catch. How can a guy with such downfield catching ability be so low?
The real issue is Irwin, the second WR. He is #78 in the country in catches per game. Some of this may have to do with tempo of offense and plays per game, but Stanford simply doesn't use its WRs near as much as other top programs do.
As for JJAW, it's not like he was highly recruited. He had 7 Power 5 offers - Stanford, Maryland, GT, Michigan State, Virginia, Pitt, and Wake Forest. Stanford, GT, MSU, and Pitt don't pass the ball much. If Clemson offered, would he have still gone to Stanford? We'll never know, but you have to think Clemson would have had a real shot given A-W is from South Carolina.
RE: Class of 2019 - stupac2 - 10-23-2018
(10-23-2018, 09:37 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: JJAW is #60 in the country in catches per game. How can a guy so good get so few opportunities?
JJAW is #57 in the country in yards per catch. How can a guy with such downfield catching ability be so low?
The real issue is Irwin, the second WR. He is #78 in the country in catches per game. Some of this may have to do with tempo of offense and plays per game, but Stanford simply doesn't use its WRs near as much as other top programs do.
As for JJAW, it's not like he was highly recruited. He had 7 Power 5 offers - Stanford, Maryland, GT, Michigan State, Virginia, Pitt, and Wake Forest. Stanford, GT, MSU, and Pitt don't pass the ball much. If Clemson offered, would he have still gone to Stanford? We'll never know, but you have to think Clemson would have had a real shot given A-W is from South Carolina.
Do you think top receivers only want to be high on those leaderboards or something? If so, it's a miracle that Alabama has produced three first-rounders during Saban's tenure (Ridley was #57 in ypg last year, for instance).
I think there are legitimate reasons to say that Stanford doesn't pass the ball enough and plays at too slow of a tempo, but "WR recruits won't want to come here" isn't one of them (for one it's obviously false). It's not like this is new (if anything we've been passing more lately) and WR recruiting has been one of our strengths. I'm not sure what your point is here.
RE: Class of 2019 - donkey687 - 10-23-2018
I don't think the NFL cares whether the prospect plays in a pass happy offense in college.
Should the recruit go to pass happy Washington State which currently has zero WR in the NFL or Stanford that produces NFL receivers regularly? While Montgomery and Baldwin are the only 2 current NFL players who were WR at Stanford, between the recently retired Whalens, Owusu, and our TEs like Ertz and Hooper who function as WR as much as TEs, we have proven that we can get you to the NFL even if you come in as a walk-on. I think JJAW is very high on scouts boards and I bet Irwin also has a productive NFL career.
RE: Class of 2019 - Phogge - 10-23-2018
Can Shaw tailor an offense to exploit the downfield ability of OSB and Wilson next year? Can Parkinson run better routs over the middle. Can they throw to next year’s backs? Can Austin Jones be a factor? Can Shaw get over it and let KJ go with a bit more tempo? Can Harrington be a bit more Kaden Smith-like assuming KS bolts?
Stay tuned.
RE: Class of 2019 - BostonCard - 10-23-2018
(10-23-2018, 09:37 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The real issue is Irwin, the second WR. He is #78 in the country in catches per game. Some of this may have to do with tempo of offense and plays per game, but Stanford simply doesn't use its WRs near as much as other top programs do.
This is a bizarre complaint. If he is #78 in the country, then since there are more than 78 teams in the country, by definition our #2 receiver ranks higher than many teams' top receiver. I'm not going to look at all FBS, but if you look at the Pac-12, Irwin ranks #9 in catches per game, which means he ranks higher than the top receivers for Cal (Vic Warton III, who has 31 in 7 games), USC (Tyler Vaughns has 30 in 7), and UCLA (Caleb Wilson has 29 in 7); he's also tied with Oregon State's top receiver. In fact, no #2 wide receiver has more catches per game than he has (Washington State's second leading receiver is a running back, at least positionally).
If you want to make a complaint about Stanford receivers not being featured forget JJ Arcega-Whiteside or Trenton Irwin; it's that after the top 2, we have a very steep drop-off. Our third and fourth leading targets are both tight ends, and our third highest wide receiver (Osiris St. Brown) has fewer receptions (6) than games (7). And it goes down from there: Michael Wilson has 3, and Weddington, (to be fair, injured) has just 1. Washington State, which is admittedly an outlier in these things, has six wide receivers with 3 or more catches per game, and two more have more receptions than our #3 receiver. But even Utah has four wide receivers with 2 or more catches per game and Washington has three wide receivers with ≥2 catches per game, and another 2 who have more catches than Osiris St. Brown.
I think there is a value proposition for a talented receiver to come to Stanford; such a wide receiver has a good chance of being on the all-Pac-12 team (barring a collapse in the second half, the first teamers will be Colorado's Shenault and JJ Arcega-Whiteside). What you won't see a lot of is four and five wide receiver sets where our QB will spread the ball around and you will see a stat line where 7 guys caught at least one pass. So yeah, if you aren't an exceptional receiver, you aren't likely to see the ball regularly, since not only are you competing with other wide receivers on a team that whose personnel set is usually 21 or 12, and thus only has two wide receivers on the field on most plays, even if you are in the game, you are frequently competing with tight ends and, when we have them, pass catching wide receivers (McCaffrey was the team's leading receiver only three years ago). But if you are a top 100 wide receiver, as Higgins is, and you work hard, you can easily be "featured in Shaw's offense", as JJ Arcega-Whiteside is.
BC
RE: Class of 2019 - donkey687 - 10-23-2018
I think South Carolina fans have reason to be nervous.
https://twitter.com/ryan_hilinski/status/1054929438138236928
RE: Class of 2019 - CTcard - 10-24-2018
(10-23-2018, 08:52 PM)BostonCard Wrote: What you won't see a lot of is four and five wide receiver sets where our QB will spread the ball around and you will see a stat line where 7 guys caught at least one pass.
So far this year Stanford has had two games with 8 guys, two games with 7 guys, two games with 6 guys, and one game with 5 guys catching a pass.
The reason that Stanford's third and lower options at WR have few catches is that in the coaches' opinion they are behind two TEs as pass catching options.
Stanford usually has run a fair number of four wide and five wide sets, though typically a few of those out wide are listed as TE on the roster. This year we are doing less of that. My guess is the staff feels the need to have the RB in for pass protection.
RE: Class of 2019 - Phogge - 10-24-2018
Shakespeare tweeting, “Dang bros, Ugo, Hugo or Iago. Know that?”
RE: Class of 2019 - OutsiderFan - 10-24-2018
All anyone needs to do is watch Stanford play football games and watch other teams play football games to know Stanford doesn't offer as many opportunities for WRs as other top programs. But here's a relevant comparison to keep in mind. Equanimeous St. Brown played just two games as a Frosh and would have redshirted under today's rules, so it's not a complete apples to apples comparison about the first years of each St. Brown brother.
Osiris St. Brown: 5 games, 6 catches, 144 yds, 0 TDs
Equa. St. Brown: 12 games, 58 catches, 961 yds, 9 TDs
Amon Ra St. Brown: 6 games, 29 catches, 427 yds, 2 TDs
RE: Class of 2019 - BostonCard - 10-24-2018
(10-24-2018, 08:07 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: All anyone needs to do is watch Stanford play football games and watch other teams play football games to know Stanford doesn't offer as many opportunities for WRs as other top programs. But here's a relevant comparison to keep in mind. Equanimeous St. Brown played just two games as a Frosh and would have redshirted under today's rules, so it's not a complete apples to apples comparison about the first years of each St. Brown brother.
Osiris St. Brown: 5 games, 6 catches, 144 yds, 0 TDs
Equa. St. Brown: 12 games, 58 catches, 961 yds, 9 TDs
Amon Ra St. Brown: 6 games, 29 catches, 427 yds, 2 TDs
As I said, the drop-off from the top 2 wide receivers to our #3 receiver (St. Brown) is dramatic. But not offering as many opportunities to our third wide receiver is not the same as saying "WRs just don't get featured in Shaw's offense" as you said to start off this subthread. That is a demonstrably false statement, as JJ Arcega-Whiteside clearly proves. He is a wide receiver and he features in our offense as much as any wide receiver features in any offense, and if you are Elijah Higgins, you could do much worse than to have a career like JJ-AW has had at Stanford.
Look there is room to make a more subtle argument; for example, that Stanford rarely features freshmen wide receivers. Osiris St. Brown redshirted last year and has 6 catches this year; Wilson has only 3 catches. Last year, Connor Weddington had 31 catches for 243 yards, and that is the most in the Shaw era (comparable to what Amon Ra has done in half a season). You could make an argument that Stanford doesn't feature a lot of depth at wide receiver, as the data I provided earlier shows. But you opted for a gross generalization instead, and when shown data that contradicted your unfounded assertion, you moved the goalposts.
BC
(10-24-2018, 05:53 AM)CTcard Wrote: So far this year Stanford has had two games with 8 guys, two games with 7 guys, two games with 6 guys, and one game with 5 guys catching a pass.
The original sub-thread was about wide receivers, so I am not counting our tight ends (even though Parkinson is routinely used as a slot receiver) or our running backs. There are teams that routinely have six or more wide receivers catching a pass in a game; Stanford is simply not one of them. We've had five wide receivers catch a pass this year. One of them (Weddington) played in one game. Michael Wilson has a catch in three games. That means that we have a bunch of games where three and in some cases only two wide receivers caught a pass.
BC
RE: Class of 2019 - SamuelMcF - 10-24-2018
(10-24-2018, 08:07 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: All anyone needs to do is watch Stanford play football games and watch other teams play football games to know Stanford doesn't offer as many opportunities for WRs as other top programs. But here's a relevant comparison to keep in mind. Equanimeous St. Brown played just two games as a Frosh and would have redshirted under today's rules, so it's not a complete apples to apples comparison about the first years of each St. Brown brother.
Osiris St. Brown: 5 games, 6 catches, 144 yds, 0 TDs
Equa. St. Brown: 12 games, 58 catches, 961 yds, 9 TDs
Amon Ra St. Brown: 6 games, 29 catches, 427 yds, 2 TDs
"The #3 WR in a run-first offense with 2 pass-catching TE's doesn't get as many stats as the #1 or #2 WR in a different, more pass-happy offense with MAYBE 1 pass-catching TE"
Wow, real game-breaking analysis. Good thing our historically good WR recruits aren't listening to you.
RE: Class of 2019 - Spiny_Norman - 10-24-2018
(10-23-2018, 10:11 PM)donkey687 Wrote: I think South Carolina fans have reason to be nervous.
https://twitter.com/ryan_hilinski/status/1054929438138236928
Or not.
[twitter]https://twitter.com/sportstalksc/status/1055151181796950019[/twitter]
RE: Class of 2019 - BostonCard - 10-24-2018
[tweet]https://twitter.com/StanfordRivals/status/1055170526941863936[/tweet]
Bummer, but good luck to him.
BC