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RE: WBB: Stanford 87 Georgia Tech 82 - 81alum - 03-02-2025

Very kind of folks to acknowledge my "labor of love."  Yes, at times it felt more like "a labor of labor," but I am pleased that we ended the regular season on a positive note.  That loss at Virginia was a really bad result, but other than that, we went 5-1 without our star player.  I think that has to count for something, and it has to be a credit to Kate Paye that she turned the team around, despite the adversity, and gave us some positive energy as we face the future.

During the late part of the season I really think the improvement shown by Ogden, Clardy, and Stevenson are substantial and bode well for the future.  Today Ogden seemed like a different person.  She has always driven under the basket and thrown up shots, but today she was finishing them.  That has been the missing piece of her offense, and it fell in place for today.

Stevenson too has been a very good rebounder--maybe our best for her height--but she had previously not shown a lot of offense.  Today there were times when she seemed to be driving at will.

There were also times in the game when the Princeton has never looked prettier or better executed.  That was a lot of unopposed back door cuts!  Yes, it also led to a few bad entrance passes for turnovers, but that seems to be part of the price of running that system.  But whether Georgia Tech was simply more vulnerable to the system or whether we are finally running it better--the offense was superb for long stretches.

Defense.  Well darn.  Not only did we give up a 31 point game to their third leading scorer, GT had three other players in double digits too.  Very little to like about our defense, I am afraid.  In the first quarter we held Georgia Tech to 15% shooting, and I mistakenly thought we had figured them out.  But that was short lived.

Now on to the ACC tournament.  We are tied with Virginia for 10th, and I am not sure how the tiebreaker works, but I presume they win since they beat us.  So we are probably the 11th seed?  If so, we would play in the 3rd game against the 14th seed on Wednesday at 6:30 Greensboro time--3:30 Pacific.  The 14th seed would be either Syracuse or Clemson--they are tied.  But I am not sure about any of this--someone who really knows, please chime in.

RE: WBB: Stanford 87 Georgia Tech 82 - BobK - 03-02-2025

Appears we play Clemson

RE: WBB: Stanford 87 Georgia Tech 82 - petersalas - 03-02-2025

Georgia Tech did seem to run some full court press today and it resulted in easy baskets for Stanford. The previous Stanford teams would have gotten flustered and turned it over more. This also bodes well for the future. I hope there’s still lots of basketball left.

It appears we are the 11th seed and will play Clemson on Wednesday.

https://x.com/kevo408/status/1896336218704793907?s=46&t=4RIjvxZZM4wjQaSyTEUwgA


(03-02-2025, 05:01 PM)81alum Wrote:  Very kind of folks to acknowledge my "labor of love."  Yes, at times it felt more like "a labor of labor," but I am pleased that we ended the regular season on a positive note.  That loss at Virginia was a really bad result, but other than that, we went 5-1 without our star player.  I think that has to count for something, and it has to be a credit to Kate Paye that she turned the team around, despite the adversity, and gave us some positive energy as we face the future.

During the late part of the season I really think the improvement shown by Ogden, Clardy, and Stevenson are substantial and bode well for the future.  Today Ogden seemed like a different person.  She has always driven under the basket and thrown up shots, but today she was finishing them.  That has been the missing piece of her offense, and it fell in place for today.

Stevenson too has been a very good rebounder--maybe our best for her height--but she had previously not shown a lot of offense.  Today there were times when she seemed to be driving at will.

There were also times in the game when the Princeton has never looked prettier or better executed.  That was a lot of unopposed back door cuts!  Yes, it also led to a few bad entrance passes for turnovers, but that seems to be part of the price of running that system.  But whether Georgia Tech was simply more vulnerable to the system or whether we are finally running it better--the offense was superb for long stretches.

Defense.  Well darn.  Not only did we give up a 31 point game to their third leading scorer, GT had three other players in double digits too.  Very little to like about our defense, I am afraid.  In the first quarter we held Georgia Tech to 15% shooting, and I mistakenly thought we had figured them out.  But that was short lived.

Now on to the ACC tournament.  We are tied with Virginia for 10th, and I am not sure how the tiebreaker works, but I presume they win since they beat us.  So we are probably the 11th seed?  If so, we would play in the 3rd game against the 14th seed on Wednesday at 6:30 Greensboro time--3:30 Pacific.  The 14th seed would be either Syracuse or Clemson--they are tied.  But I am not sure about any of this--someone who really knows, please chime in.


RE: WBB: Stanford 87 Georgia Tech 82 - 81alum - 03-02-2025

Thanks for that!

RE: WBB: Stanford 87 Georgia Tech 82 - magnus - 03-02-2025

I'll admit I haven't followed as closely this year...is Agara out for the season?

RE: WBB: Stanford 87 Georgia Tech 82 - petersalas - 03-02-2025

Was injured at Notre Dame, played 6 minutes vs Boston College at home, and has missed the last 6 games due to concussion protocols. We don’t know if she’s done for the season or if she’ll be back for the ACC tournament.

(03-02-2025, 05:26 PM)magnus Wrote:  I'll admit I haven't followed as closely this year...is Agara out for the season?


RE: WBB: Stanford 87 Georgia Tech 82 - CompSci87 - 03-02-2025

(03-02-2025, 05:26 PM)magnus Wrote:  I'll admit I haven't followed as closely this year...is Agara out for the season?

I don't think we know, though I've missed some chalk talks. My seatmates had read somewhere that she was supposed to have been back on Thursday. So I'm hoping she'll be back and at 100% for the ACC tournament and whatever (if anything) comes after.

RE: WBB: Stanford 87 Georgia Tech 82 - BobK - 03-02-2025

Agara has a Tailbone injury.

RE: WBB: Stanford 87 Georgia Tech 82 - Card10Fan - 03-02-2025

If Agara hadn’t been injured, I doubt Ogden gets the minutes nor production we’ve seen from her the past stretch of games. Is there  way for Ogden and Agara to plan together on the court going forward? Our winning recently has been somewhat tied to Ogden playing very solid on both ends. Same for Mary Ashley. Looks way more comfortable and confident since Nunu went out.

RE: WBB: Stanford 87 Georgia Tech 82 - petersalas - 03-02-2025

It’s interesting the keep referencing concussion protocols is the reason for her absence. Well, whatever it is, sending positive vibes for healthy, speedy, and safe recovery. 

(03-02-2025, 05:35 PM)BobK Wrote:  Agara has a Tailbone injury.
I definitely think so because Ogden usually subs for Bosgana. I think the improvement of Clardy and Ogden will definitely help because Nunu won’t be the primary focus and it will give them more balance. 

(03-02-2025, 05:43 PM)Card10Fan Wrote:  If Agara hadn’t been injured, I doubt Ogden gets the minutes nor production we’ve seen from her the past stretch of games. Is there  way for Ogden and Agara to plan together on the court going forward? Our winning recently has been somewhat tied to Ogden playing very solid on both ends. Same for Mary Ashley. Looks way more comfortable and confident since Nunu went out.
The press conference:

https://youtu.be/_fe3CPaZPj8?si=zVG32rhLBnMKE3xt

RE: WBB: Stanford 87 Georgia Tech 82 - 81alum - 03-02-2025

(03-02-2025, 05:35 PM)BobK Wrote:  Agara has a Tailbone injury.
Yes, Bob, I had heard that.  But Katy Steding mentioned a concussion at her last chalk talk.  Maybe Nunu has both?

I know how long it can take to get over a tailbone injury--and there is not a lot you can do to speed it up.  I remember having to sit on a doughnut cushion for months.
Update:  MAS referred to Nunu's concussion in the presser.  Also said they are hoping to get her back.

RE: WBB: Stanford 87 Georgia Tech 82 - 81alum - 03-02-2025

(03-02-2025, 05:44 PM)petersalas Wrote:  I definitely think so because Ogden usually subs for Bosgana. I think the improvement of Cardy and Ogden will definitely help because Nunu won’t be the primary focus and it will give them more balance. 

Agreed.  With Bosgana graduating, Ogden will likely be starting.  Depending on the match ups, we could see Agara, Ogden, and Stevenson playing together.  But in the ACC there are so many speedy small guards that there will be games when that is not possible.

Note that today we had 5 players in double figures.  That is absolutely the ideal way to score and render the opposing scout useless.  It also can't hurt team camaraderie when the spotlight is shared.  The UConn teams that clobbered us were always the ones with balanced scoring.  The times we won, we were able to scheme to shut down a superstar, like Maya Moore.

And our defense today was almost our undoing....because Georgia Tech had 4 players in double digits, and one player who averages around 10 getting 31.  Balanced scoring is so difficult to defend--because it will always find the weakest link in a defense.

RE: WBB: Stanford 87 Georgia Tech 82 - M T - 03-03-2025

Did I miss somebody saying anything about Senior Day?

I don't think the players said anything about their future plans other than shrugs.
IIRC, 

RE: WBB: Stanford 87 Georgia Tech 82 - M T - 03-03-2025

(03-02-2025, 07:32 PM)81alum Wrote:  And our defense today was almost our undoing....because Georgia Tech had 4 players in double digits, and one player who averages around 10 getting 31.  Balanced scoring is so difficult to defend--because it will always find the weakest link in a defense.

Oh, did we play defense?  I must have missed that.  (To be serious, imagine if you were a fan of  GaTech, imagine what you'd think about their defense today.)

Stanford's offense faded in the 4th quarter (46.2% FG%), all the way down to 61.4% FG% for the game, which GoStanford says is an ACC-best for conference games this year.  We were hanging around 70% (69.2% at the half)

The question I had while watching, was how was Georgia Tech hanging in against Stanford's ability to get to the basket?  If you didn't see the game, Stanford scored 52 points by layups!   The team did amazingly well on offense.   Unfortunately with today's refs, this didn't often turn into defensive fouls by GT.

Looking at the stats, GT had 10 more shots (13 more rebounds at their goal), with 11 more 3pt shots.  They also had a high FG% (46.3%) but only 18 points from layups.  The extra shots mostly came off 9 extra offensive rebounds.

While watching the game in person, when we were in half-court man-to-man, it seemed we played very good defense to prevent them from getting to the basket.  Good switching.   We did have some trouble in the 2nd quarter where they would pass out for an open 3pt shot (GT hit 5/10 3pt shots in Q2).  We seemed to shut that down in the 2nd half, but I felt GT got more transition scoring because we were not getting back fast enough or were not organized.


Where have we heard this before?  The winning team had a big first quarter, and lost the rest of the game but hung on for the win.
Is that symptomatic of the traveling team losing?

Other than some lax getting back on defense, the only thing I remember being disappointed in was the late 3 missed FTs.  We were 100% up to that point.  Nerves?

RE: WBB: Stanford 87 Georgia Tech 82 - UltimateCard - 03-03-2025

(03-03-2025, 04:05 AM)M T Wrote:  
(03-02-2025, 07:32 PM)81alum Wrote:  And our defense today was almost our undoing....because Georgia Tech had 4 players in double digits, and one player who averages around 10 getting 31.  Balanced scoring is so difficult to defend--because it will always find the weakest link in a defense.

Oh, did we play defense?  I must have missed that.  (To be serious, imagine if you were a fan of  GaTech, imagine what you'd think about their defense today.)

Stanford's offense faded in the 4th quarter (46.2% FG%), all the way down to 61.4% FG% for the game, which GoStanford says is an ACC-best for conference games this year.  We were hanging around 70% (69.2% at the half)

The question I had while watching, was how was Georgia Tech hanging in against Stanford's ability to get to the basket?  If you didn't see the game, Stanford scored 52 points by layups!   The team did amazingly well on offense.   Unfortunately with today's refs, this didn't often turn into defensive fouls by GT.

Looking at the stats, GT had 10 more shots (13 more rebounds at their goal), with 11 more 3pt shots.  They also had a high FG% (46.3%) but only 18 points from layups.  The extra shots mostly came off 9 extra offensive rebounds.

While watching the game in person, when we were in half-court man-to-man, it seemed we played very good defense to prevent them from getting to the basket.  Good switching.   We did have some trouble in the 2nd quarter where they would pass out for an open 3pt shot (GT hit 5/10 3pt shots in Q2).  We seemed to shut that down in the 2nd half, but I felt GT got more transition scoring because we were not getting back fast enough or were not organized.


Where have we heard this before?  The winning team had a big first quarter, and lost the rest of the game but hung on for the win.
Is that symptomatic of the traveling team losing?

Other than some lax getting back on defense, the only thing I remember being disappointed in was the late 3 missed FTs.  We were 100% up to that point.  Nerves?

Quite a chess match between Kate Paye and Nell Fortner with both squads playing at a high level. Really impressed with our offense - got off to a fast start and then kept it going against a mix of defenses, at least a couple of zone defenses and full court pressure at times. The coaches and/or players recognized and attacked (i.e., did not wait till late in the shot clock to put up a desperate heave). IIRC, GT made their first comeback on drives and kick-outs to open shooters on the perimeter and their second on pick-and-rolls; it took a few possessions to adjust but we did eventually. And we got stops at the end - their only basket in the last 3.5 minutes came off a steal at mid court; otherwise six misses. A great game on Senior Day - shows how much progress the team has made in a challenging year! Things are coming together just in time for the conference tourney!

RE: WBB: Stanford 87 Georgia Tech 82 - 81alum - 03-03-2025

(03-03-2025, 10:53 AM)UltimateCard Wrote:  Quite a chess match between Kate Paye and Nell Fortner with both squads playing at a high level. Really impressed with our offense - got off to a fast start and then kept it going against a mix of defenses, at least a couple of zone defenses and full court pressure at times. The coaches and/or players recognized and attacked (i.e., did not wait till late in the shot clock to put up a desperate heave). IIRC, GT made their first comeback on drives and kick-outs to open shooters on the perimeter and their second on pick-and-rolls; it took a few possessions to adjust but we did eventually. And we got stops at the end - their only basket in the last 3.5 minutes came off a steal at mid court; otherwise six misses. A great game on Senior Day - shows how much progress the team has made in a challenging year! Things are coming together just in time for the conference tourney!
I think your "chess match" analogy is perfect.  In the presser, MAS says that they were scheming all game long to find a way to shut down the pick and roll.  They seem to have done just barely enough, but they never really solved it.

RE: WBB: Stanford 87 Georgia Tech 82 - UltimateCard - 03-03-2025

(03-03-2025, 12:14 PM)81alum Wrote:  
(03-03-2025, 10:53 AM)UltimateCard Wrote:  Quite a chess match between Kate Paye and Nell Fortner with both squads playing at a high level. Really impressed with our offense - got off to a fast start and then kept it going against a mix of defenses, at least a couple of zone defenses and full court pressure at times. The coaches and/or players recognized and attacked (i.e., did not wait till late in the shot clock to put up a desperate heave). IIRC, GT made their first comeback on drives and kick-outs to open shooters on the perimeter and their second on pick-and-rolls; it took a few possessions to adjust but we did eventually. And we got stops at the end - their only basket in the last 3.5 minutes came off a steal at mid court; otherwise six misses. A great game on Senior Day - shows how much progress the team has made in a challenging year! Things are coming together just in time for the conference tourney!
I think your "chess match" analogy is perfect.  In the presser, MAS says that they were scheming all game long to find a way to shut down the pick and roll.  They seem to have done just barely enough, but they never really solved it.

Hey, at least we won. I still have PTSD from Sabrina Ionescu (or was it Kelsey Plum?) humiliating us with the pick and roll…

RE: WBB: Stanford 87 Georgia Tech 82 - 81alum - 03-03-2025

(03-03-2025, 01:00 PM)UltimateCard Wrote:  .

Hey, at least we won. I still have PTSD from Sabrina Ionescu (or was it Kelsey Plum?) humiliating us with the pick and roll…
It was Sabrina off of Ruthy Hebard.  Kelsey Plum had other ways of humiliating us.

RE: WBB: Stanford 87 Georgia Tech 82 - CompSci87 - 03-03-2025

(03-03-2025, 12:14 PM)81alum Wrote:  
(03-03-2025, 10:53 AM)UltimateCard Wrote:  Quite a chess match between Kate Paye and Nell Fortner with both squads playing at a high level. Really impressed with our offense - got off to a fast start and then kept it going against a mix of defenses, at least a couple of zone defenses and full court pressure at times. The coaches and/or players recognized and attacked (i.e., did not wait till late in the shot clock to put up a desperate heave). IIRC, GT made their first comeback on drives and kick-outs to open shooters on the perimeter and their second on pick-and-rolls; it took a few possessions to adjust but we did eventually. And we got stops at the end - their only basket in the last 3.5 minutes came off a steal at mid court; otherwise six misses. A great game on Senior Day - shows how much progress the team has made in a challenging year! Things are coming together just in time for the conference tourney!
I think your "chess match" analogy is perfect.  In the presser, MAS says that they were scheming all game long to find a way to shut down the pick and roll.  They seem to have done just barely enough, but they never really solved it.

I was impressed at how GT ball handlers used their screens. They got super close to the screener so that fighting through without fouling was very difficult. The screeners did commit a couple of moving screen offensive fouls, but mostly the screens were set cleanly.

RE: WBB: Stanford 87 Georgia Tech 82 - 81alum - 03-05-2025

(03-03-2025, 10:54 PM)CompSci87 Wrote:  
(03-03-2025, 12:14 PM)81alum Wrote:  
(03-03-2025, 10:53 AM)UltimateCard Wrote:  Quite a chess match between Kate Paye and Nell Fortner with both squads playing at a high level. Really impressed with our offense - got off to a fast start and then kept it going against a mix of defenses, at least a couple of zone defenses and full court pressure at times. The coaches and/or players recognized and attacked (i.e., did not wait till late in the shot clock to put up a desperate heave). IIRC, GT made their first comeback on drives and kick-outs to open shooters on the perimeter and their second on pick-and-rolls; it took a few possessions to adjust but we did eventually. And we got stops at the end - their only basket in the last 3.5 minutes came off a steal at mid court; otherwise six misses. A great game on Senior Day - shows how much progress the team has made in a challenging year! Things are coming together just in time for the conference tourney!
I think your "chess match" analogy is perfect.  In the presser, MAS says that they were scheming all game long to find a way to shut down the pick and roll.  They seem to have done just barely enough, but they never really solved it.

I was impressed at how GT ball handlers used their screens. They got super close to the screener so that fighting through without fouling was very difficult. The screeners did commit a couple of moving screen offensive fouls, but mostly the screens were set cleanly.
We tried a lot of pick and roll action back in the Lili Thompson/ Amber Orrange days, and as I recall, it worked fairly well but Kaylee Johnson did pick up a lot of offensive screening fouls. 

Like the Princeton, the pick and roll requires a lot of muscle memory, but a lot fewer decisions and fewer assists and passing.  I wonder if it might be a better offense for the team going forward.  I offer it as a question only.  Which system will Hailee Swain flourish in?  Either?  Both?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_h0WSOetVY&t=20s