NIL - pay up or I'm not playing - Printable Version
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RE: NIL - pay up or I'm not playing - 82lsju - 09-25-2024
Quote:USC tackle Bear Alexander is redshirting after dispute over playing time
https://www.latimes.com/sports/usc/story/2024-09-25/usc-bear-alexander-redshirt-plans-to-transfer
RE: NIL - pay up or I'm not playing - French Rage - 09-25-2024
(09-25-2024, 07:20 PM)82lsju Wrote:Quote:USC tackle Bear Alexander is redshirting after dispute over playing time
https://www.latimes.com/sports/usc/story/2024-09-25/usc-bear-alexander-redshirt-plans-to-transfer
Yeah but deciding to leave an organization you are supposed to be a part of because you feel you aren't getting enough money is actually kinda fitting for USC football.
RE: triangle2 - BillBradley - 09-26-2024
(09-25-2024, 02:21 PM)triangle2 Wrote:I'm similar. Love the high school sports scene and I still coach. I haven't paid to see live professional sports in years. But I do still watch at home, and I'm not really that caught up in the "principle of it all" when it comes to the money for the college athletes. It's just my opinion that the college players needed to be compensated above their scholarship, so here we are and I'm good with it. When stories like the UNLV QB come out, I view it as 2 steps forward, 1 step back.(09-25-2024, 02:01 PM)pefloresjr Wrote: Sure. But they haven't really changed the structure of the teams being part of a university with other, broader goals. If they were all just pro leagues of different levels, the pure "get all you can get" model makes sense. But very few people attend semi-pro sporting events. For me and my affiliation with Stanford, I don't really want to have pro teams that use Stanford as their marketing hook while having little to do with Stanford. The pure capitalistic model really has no need for the athletes to attend school at all. I still follow Stanford sports and have season tickets to three sports. However, I am likely to drop that participation as the model shifts to the pure capitalist, non-student structure. I will then just spend my money on the actual pros like the Giants, Niners, and Warriors.
Cheers,
Pete F.
Oddly enough, I’ve gone the other direction. I’ve had a decade of following our kids on their sports teams - mostly soccer, but some baseball, basketball, and swimming. Currently, we’re fans for travel soccer and I’ve found this more engaging (despite the usual complaints about coaches, playing time, refs, etc.) than watching college athletics descend into the septic tank filled with money. I wonder when we’re done with this stage if I’ll just keep showing up for high school basketball and soccer, keep my MLS tickets, and mostly disengage from college sports. Since I’m only one degree of separation from Kate Paye, I’ll follow WBB, at least for a while. Meanwhile, the greed factor for major pro sports (see e.g., John Fisher, Greg Johnson, plus all the distasteful NFL owners) has also caused my interest to wane for the major revenue sports. I want to pay attention to the last years of Steph Curry, and to keep listening to Kuip and Kruk as long as they’re still around, but I don’t know if I’ll still have any pro/college sports tickets 5 years from now.
I find myself wanting to spend as little money as possible supporting the pro sports industrial complex these days.
RE: NIL - pay up or I'm not playing - fullmetal - 09-26-2024
It's an "interesting" step that more and more leagues are allowing increased ownership stake in teams by investment firms. It truly is turning sports into a purely cash-extracting machine that exploits our love of drama, athleticism, and regional loyalties. As the Oakland Athletics reminds us today, ownership might even dispense with fan loyalty in favor of a better deal elsewhere.
Part of the NIL push has been to give players more autonomy and opportunity to prove themselves in hopes of landing an enormously outsized opportunity to play professionally. If the money weren't so amazing at the professional level, there wouldn't quite be as much push for NIL rights. So the money-grubbing in pro sports necessarily trickles down to college sports, which are even more lucrative than minor leagues or semi-pro leagues specifically because of fan loyalty and the non-profit tax sheltering universities attached to these college teams.
I follow sports because I see good people achieving so much in sports (e.g. Luck, McCaffrey, et al.). I think these people have a lot to offer the world after they finish their sporting careers. Sport for the sake of sport doesn't interest me, but sport for the sake of life values and helping us live better lives...that's where I think I should draw the line.
RE: NIL - pay up or I'm not playing - needle - 09-26-2024
Probably needs to be said: Legalized sports betting has caused enough harm to society that, in my opinion, it's time to question the ethics of supporting pro teams whose parent leagues (e.g. NFL and NBA) are in bed with the big gaming sites.
https://www.nba.com/news/draftkings-fanduel-become-nbas-co-official-sports-betting-partners
https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-announces-tri-exclusive-sports-betting-partners
RE: NIL - pay up or I'm not playing - GK3 - 09-26-2024
(09-25-2024, 11:33 AM)BostonCard Wrote: Not the first time this has happened:
https://www.wsj.com/sports/football/jaden-rashada-florida-nil-lawsuit-ee2f5441?st=Fj8qTn&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink (Should be in front of the paywall)
Quote:In the rapidly evolving landscape of college sports, where athletes can now rake in money off their name, image and likeness but can’t directly be paid to play, Jaden Rashada has emerged as the poster child for everything that could possibly go wrong.
He was a star quarterback lured to a big-time school with the promise of millions of dollars in endorsements. Then the deal fell apart, leaving Rashada with limited options and no money in his pocket.
Now, following a rocky two years during which he missed out on the possibility of a life-changing fortune, Rashada is lifting the veil on the seedy underbelly of recruiting in the NIL era.
On Tuesday, Rashada sued the University of Florida’s head football coach, an administrator and a top donor in federal court, alleging they fraudulently induced him to abandon a lucrative offer from another program to sign with the Gators instead.
Looks like when the NIL deal fell through, he went to ASU, where he played in three games but got injured. He then transferred to Georgia, but it looks like he is fourth on the depth chart.
Someone can explain why this is good for student athletes.
BC
In these situations, you have only Athlete. Student left town long ago.
RE: NIL - pay up or I'm not playing - BostonCard - 09-26-2024
(09-26-2024, 11:50 AM)needle Wrote: Probably needs to be said: Legalized sports betting has caused enough harm to society that, in my opinion, it's time to question the ethics of supporting pro teams whose parent leagues (e.g. NFL and NBA) are in bed with the big gaming sites.
https://www.nba.com/news/draftkings-fanduel-become-nbas-co-official-sports-betting-partners
https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-announces-tri-exclusive-sports-betting-partners
Timely article from The Atlantic about the impact of widespread legalized gambling.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/09/legal-sports-gambling-was-mistake/679925/
Quote:A growing body of social-science literature suggests that, yes, this is in fact quite different. The rise of sports gambling has caused a wave of financial and familial misery, one that falls disproportionately on the most economically precarious households. Six years into the experiment, the evidence is convincing: Legalizing sports gambling was a brobdingnagian mistake.
Here are the two papers that have been making the rounds lately:
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4903302
Quote:Following a 2018 ruling of the U.S. Supreme Court, 38 states have legalized sports gambling. We study how this policy has impacted consumer financial health using the state-by-state rollout of legal sports gambling and a large and comprehensive dataset on consumer financial outcomes. Our main finding is that overall, consumers' financial health is modestly deteriorating as the average credit score in states that legalize sports gambling decreases by roughly 0.3%. The decline in credit score is associated with changes in indicators of excessive debt. We find a substantial increase in bankruptcy rates, debt collections, debt consolidation loans, and auto loan delinquencies. We also find that financial institutions respond to the reduced creditworthiness of consumers by restricting access to credit. These results are stronger for states that allow sports gambling online compared to states that restrict access to in-person betting and larger for young men in low-income counties. Together, these results indicate that the ease of access to sports gambling is harming consumer financial health by increasing their level of debt.
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4881086
Quote:We estimate the causal effect of online sports betting on households' investment, spending, and debt management decisions. Employing household-level transaction data and a staggered difference-in-differences framework, we find sharp increases in sports betting following legalization. This increase does not displace other gambling activity or consumption but significantly reduces households' savings allocations, as negative expected value risky bets crowd out positive expected value investments. These effects concentrate among financially constrained households, who become further constrained as credit card debt increases, available credit decreases, and overdraft frequency rises. Our findings highlight the potential adverse effects of online sports betting on vulnerable households.
And, unfortunately, it's not just professional sports leagues, and I expect to see a very corrosive collegiate sports gambling scandal any day now.
BC
RE: NIL - pay up or I'm not playing - jacket3ree - 09-26-2024
I don't know if this qualifies as a scandal, but a VTA bus driver killed a coworker last week over NFL and college football gambling debts. A lot remains to be decided in court, but gambling and its ramifications can be very corrosive and deadly. We can all walk away as fans, but it won't stop that. (My rationalization for watching tons of NFL and college football, I guess.)
RE: NIL - pay up or I'm not playing - M T - 09-26-2024
(09-26-2024, 05:46 PM)BostonCard Wrote: expect to see a very corrosive collegiate sports gambling scandal any day now.Well beyond the Notre Dame men’s swim team
RE: NIL - pay up or I'm not playing - BostonCard - 09-26-2024
(09-26-2024, 09:35 PM)M T Wrote:(09-26-2024, 05:46 PM)BostonCard Wrote: expect to see a very corrosive collegiate sports gambling scandal any day now.Well beyond the Notre Dame men’s swim team
And the baseball coach at Alabama(?). I thought of this when I posted, that there have already been scandals, but I am talking about a foundation-shaking scandal, like a major point shaving scandal involving big name players on major (SEC and Big Ten football) teams and major criminal elements. The ingredients are all there: poorly regulated NIL payments, legalized gambling on college campuses about college sports… it’s just a matter of time.
BC
RE: NIL - pay up or I'm not playing - Mick - 09-27-2024
It's corrosive on a variety of levels, including the common student. Gambling in college is serious business. As it is commonly told, Dan Gilbert, owner of the Cleveland Cavaliers got his start as a bookie on the Michigan State campus. Gilbert was arrested with three others, over $114,000 that they had collected.
Gilbert has past arrest on gambling charge (espn.com)
A retired Detroit policeman, whose son was petrified of being beaten because of his gambling debts to Gilbert, thinks the money was much more than $114,000.
Retired Michigan police officer says Dan Gilbert's 1981 gambling operation was much bigger than Gilbert admits - cleveland.com
Dan Gilbert now owns Rocket Mortgage, net worth $51.9 billion. As I was leaving Detroit (in 2018), Gilbert had just purchased his 100th building in downtown Detroit.
BC linked this WSJ article almost two years ago: https://www.wsj.com/articles/gambling-operators-push-sports-betting-at-collegesbut-not-to-students-they-say-11669815758
RE: NIL - pay up or I'm not playing - cardcrimson - 09-27-2024
(09-26-2024, 10:37 PM)BostonCard Wrote:(09-26-2024, 09:35 PM)M T Wrote:(09-26-2024, 05:46 PM)BostonCard Wrote: expect to see a very corrosive collegiate sports gambling scandal any day now.Well beyond the Notre Dame men’s swim team
And the baseball coach at Alabama(?). I thought of this when I posted, that there have already been scandals, but I am talking about a foundation-shaking scandal, like a major point shaving scandal involving big name players on major (SEC and Big Ten football) teams and major criminal elements. The ingredients are all there: poorly regulated NIL payments, legalized gambling on college campuses about college sports… it’s just a matter of time.
BC
Alabama and Cincinnati at least (hadn't heard about it, and just looked it up). Pretty stunning in the stupidity of the guy placing the bets. Not a good look for the coach, either. . . .
RE: NIL - pay up or I'm not playing - lex24 - 09-29-2024
(09-26-2024, 11:50 AM)needle Wrote: Probably needs to be said: Legalized sports betting has caused enough harm to society that, in my opinion, it's time to question the ethics of supporting pro teams whose parent leagues (e.g. NFL and NBA) are in bed with the big gaming sites.
https://www.nba.com/news/draftkings-fanduel-become-nbas-co-official-sports-betting-partners
https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-announces-tri-exclusive-sports-betting-partners
People are going to gamble. Whether “sponsored “ or not. This is coming from someone that doesn’t….
RE: NIL - pay up or I'm not playing - Goose - 09-29-2024
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/who-is-unlvs-new-starting-qb-hajj-malik-williams-ex-fcs-star-next-up-after-matthew-slukas-sudden-exit/
It seems pretty clear that UNLV had another QB on the roster that they felt was at least a viable alternative to Slukas. They decided they didn't need to pay Slukas. It is entirely possible they had decided to play Williams over Slukas in any case and at that point Slukas wanted his money. This entire situation does of course stink to high heaven. I wonder what NIL deal Williams has and will it be honored if push comes to shove? UNLV was obviously in a business relationship with these two athletes that had no academic component.
RE: NIL - pay up or I'm not playing - 82lsju - 09-30-2024
(09-25-2024, 05:22 PM)82lsju Wrote:(09-25-2024, 04:58 PM)CardinalSagehen Wrote: It sounds like Sluka did nothing wrong other than being naive and not getting it in writing. It's a big leap to assume that he went to UNLV in bad faith and always thought he could redshirt if the money didn't come through.
UNLV and its boosters are a hot mess. They are getting what they deserve.
Notably, Clay Patterson was set to go to UNLV in the off-season. Then he very wisely bailed and came to Stanford.
he appears to have gone there for the spring term and then decided to transfer again
https://www.on3.com/news/former-yale-star-clay-patterson-commits-stanford-transfer-portal-unlv/
more on Clay Patterson from the Daily
Quote:Patterson, who played four seasons at Yale, was a three-time all-Ivy selection and is tied for second all-time in Yale football history for sacks at 22.5. But Patterson’s road to Stanford was not as straightforward as some others. After committing to Illinois back in December, Patterson backed off his commitment to the Fighting Illini and instead opted to play in Las Vegas at UNLV. But the 6-foot-3 player decided to change his mind twice, making the trek up to California to play for Stanford in his last year of eligibility.
“I just thought it was in my best interest to enter the transfer portal,” Patterson said. “Stanford happened to be an option and it was an easy choice from there.”
https://stanforddaily.com/2024/09/27/stanford-football-clay-patterson-clemson/
RE: NIL - pay up or I'm not playing - BostonCard - 09-30-2024
(09-29-2024, 08:48 AM)lex24 Wrote:(09-26-2024, 11:50 AM)needle Wrote: Probably needs to be said: Legalized sports betting has caused enough harm to society that, in my opinion, it's time to question the ethics of supporting pro teams whose parent leagues (e.g. NFL and NBA) are in bed with the big gaming sites.
https://www.nba.com/news/draftkings-fanduel-become-nbas-co-official-sports-betting-partners
https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-announces-tri-exclusive-sports-betting-partners
People are going to gamble. Whether “sponsored “ or not. This is coming from someone that doesn’t….
Yes, people are going to gamble regardless, but that's not a reason not to have a law.
The biggest effect is that with gambling being legal, you can't really stop companies from marketing gambling. The first amendment makes it hard to restrict advertsing.
Two, it being legal makes it much easier to seriously gamble (beyond your NCAA tournament pool). It used to be that in order to gamble you either had to go to Las Vegas to do it legally or know a bookie who would take an illegal bet. Although there are all sorts of problems with the latter, many people never took the first step. Now, it is as easy as downloading an app to your phone and putting in your credit card number.
Three, it being that easy also means that companies can engage in all sorts of "dark patterns" to get people to gamble more.
https://www.marketplace.org/shows/marketplace-tech/how-teenagers-can-get-hooked-on-sports-betting/
The fundamental problem is that you now have corporate entities whose business model benefits from problem gamblers. So, there is no incentive to prevent problem gambling, and every incentive to encourage it.
BC
RE: NIL - pay up or I'm not playing - Goose - 10-03-2024
(09-25-2024, 08:29 PM)French Rage Wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/sports/lincoln-riley-wants-major-changes-013837911.html(09-25-2024, 07:20 PM)82lsju Wrote:Quote:USC tackle Bear Alexander is redshirting after dispute over playing time
https://www.latimes.com/sports/usc/story/2024-09-25/usc-bear-alexander-redshirt-plans-to-transfer
Yeah but deciding to leave an organization you are supposed to be a part of because you feel you aren't getting enough money is actually kinda fitting for USC football.
Riley wants everybody to have five years of eligibility. Not even a fig leaf towards education being important and any attempt to match eligibility to the same. If you graduate in four (or less) years, do you still get five years of eligibility? Of course right now preserving a "redshirt" year is worth something. If there are no redshirts Bear Alexander would have already used up a year of eligibility by playing at all. That said, if he is "upset" with the USC program because he isn't getting to play, there is no reason for him to continue at USC. Riley's "solution" doesn't fix the problem.
RE: NIL - pay up or I'm not playing - Mick - 11-01-2024
(09-29-2024, 10:37 AM)Goose Wrote: https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/who-is-unlvs-new-starting-qb-hajj-malik-williams-ex-fcs-star-next-up-after-matthew-slukas-sudden-exit/
It seems pretty clear that UNLV had another QB on the roster that they felt was at least a viable alternative to Slukas. They decided they didn't need to pay Slukas. It is entirely possible they had decided to play Williams over Slukas in any case and at that point Slukas wanted his money. This entire situation does of course stink to high heaven. I wonder what NIL deal Williams has and will it be honored if push comes to shove? UNLV was obviously in a business relationship with these two athletes that had no academic component.
Sluka is now officially in the transfer portal. His story hasn't changed at all. Best quote from the UNLV naifs:
UNLV released a statement at the time accusing Sluka's agent of making “financial demands.”
“UNLV athletics interpreted these demands as a violation of the NCAA pay-for-play rules, as well as Nevada state law,” the school said. “UNLV does not engage in such activity, nor does it respond to implied threats. UNLV has honored all previously agreed-upon scholarships for Matthew Sluka.”
Matthew Sluka, who left UNLV over NIL dispute, enters transfer portal