Outside Topic SF Giants 2024 - Printable Version
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RE: SF Giants 2024 - OutsiderFan - 10-24-2023
Fun Fact: My mother was Paul Melvin's secretary. Paul Melvin was Bob's father.
My mother is NOT a sports fan, but she asked me today what I thought about "Paul Melvin" because there was an article in the Merc this morning about him going to the Giants. I said "Bob" and she said "I said Paul because I worked for him at SRI and that's what I think of when I see or hear "Melvin."
It was funny because I called her and was going to ask what she thought about Paul Melvin's son being hired as Giants manager, and she beat me to it.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - BobK - 10-24-2023
Interesting that Matt Willians is a coach for the padres
The Giants top priority now is a new Hitting coach. Yes I saw the existing one has another year on his contract.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Mick - 10-24-2023
(10-24-2023, 05:41 PM)BobK Wrote: Interesting that Matt Williams is a coach for the Padres. The Giants top priority now is a new hitting coach. Yes I saw the existing one has another year on his contract.
Giants finished 24th in OPS+ after finishing 15th last year and 4th the year before that. Our current hitting coach should be our former hitting coach ASAP.
As for pitching, the Giants finished 2nd in all of MLB for FIP in both 2021 and 2022, and 4th in MLB this year. Very good. Keep the pitching coach.
FIP was great, but team ERA was 12th in MLB this year, 13th last year and 2nd in MLB in ERA in 2021. Not only that, the Giants finished 5th in Rtot, the most comprehensive fielding statistic. 2nd in pitching, 4th in hitting, 5th in fielding. No wonder they won 107 games.
And then somehow, they got stupid. They forgot how to field. After finishing 5th in Rtot in 2021, they dropped precipitously to 28th in 2022 and 25th in 2023. No wonder they became a .500 team. They fell in all three major categories. Fielding was a disaster, and dragged down the pitching. But 24th in OPS+ in 2023? It's a miracle they won 79 games. Must have been the managing. Oh right, we fired that guy.
And just a fun little aside...in 2023, the Padres finished 5th in Rtot, 11th in FIP, 2nd in ERA, and 9th in OPS+. How does that team finish 82-80 -- and win 14 of their last 16 to get there -- finish in the top 1/3rd in baseball in all major categories, but at the 50th percentile for W/L? Normally, I'd point at the manager, but I can't really do that since he's now our manager...
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Giants - 10-24-2023
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1698204837' Wrote: 1698204837[/url]']
BobK dateline='[url=tel:1698194508' Wrote: 1698194508[/url]']
Interesting that Matt Williams is a coach for the Padres/ The Giants top priority now is a new hitting coach. Yes I saw the existing one has another year on his contract.
Giants finished 24th in OPS+ after finishing 15th last year and 4th the year before that. Our current hitting coach should be our former hitting coach ASAP.
As for pitching, the Giants finished 2nd in all of MLB for FIP in both 2021 and 2022, and 4th in MLB this year. Very good. Keep the pitching coach.
FIP was great, but team ERA was 12th in MLB this year, 13th last year and 2nd in MLB in ERA in 2021. Not only that, the Giants finished 5th in Rtot, the most comprehensive fielding statistic. 2nd in pitching, 4th in hitting, 5th in fielding. No wonder they won 107 games.
And then somehow, they got stupid. They forgot how to field. After finishing 5th in Rtot in 2021, they dropped precipitously to 28th in 2022 and 25th in 2023. No wonder they became a .500 team. They fell in all three major categories. Fielding was a disaster, and dragged down the pitching. But 24th in OPS+ in 2023? It's a miracle they won 79 games. Must have been the managing. Oh right, we fired that guy.
And just a fun little aside...in 2023, the Padres finished 5th in Rtot, 11th in FIP, 2nd in ERA, and 9th in OPS+. How does that team finish 82-80 -- and win 14 of their last 16 to get there -- finish in the top 1/3rd in baseball in all major categories, but at the 50th percentile for W/L? Normally, I'd point at the manager, but I can't really do that since he's now our manager...
I think SF will have new leadership handling the pitching.
Bannister has moved on to Chicago and Bailey is looking to work closer to home (East Coast). Boston is considering him. Speaking of which, Kapler is under consideration for the top baseball operations job in Boston. Wouldn’t that be a story?
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Nobadeer - 10-24-2023
(10-24-2023, 11:31 AM)Mick Wrote:(10-24-2023, 10:58 AM)cardcrimson Wrote:(10-24-2023, 10:49 AM)Mick Wrote: Giants are about to announce Bob Melvin as their new manager.
Bummer. I was hoping for Alyssa Nakken. . . .
The Giants have it on their web site.
Bob Melvin to be hired as Giants manager (sources) (mlb.com).
Personally, I don't think it's a good idea. He's coached for 20 seasons, finished first in his division 4 times and made the wild card four times. His teams were ousted in three of the four wild card games, and ousted in the NLDS three times. So in 20 years, Melvin made it to the NLCS just once and was ousted in five games. This year, he had eight Padres players who had multiple all-star games on their resume, along with six other players who were gold glove winners, or finished in the Top Five of Cy Young voting multiple times or were single-time all-star game participants. In other words, he had a LOADED roster...that had to win 14 of their last 16 games to finish 82-80 with the third highest payroll in baseball at $249 mms., and finished three games ahead of the Giants, a team with a roster nearly bereft of hitting and fielding talent.
Melvin doesn't excite me at all. I have the exact opposite feeling, and it will be the first year in many, many years that I won't buy a ticket. And after they go 3-7 in their first ten games, I probably won't watch them on TV either.
If this team wins 78 games next year, I will be very surprised. But hey, BoMel ix a 3x Manager of the Year (Kapler only won it once). Maybe BoMel will turn all the first and second year players into All-Stars. Here's hoping...
Agree totally on BoMel, it's cool that he went to M-A, Cal, kept the A's relevant despite annual exodus of star players due to A's cheap owner, blah blah. But all his great teams in Oakland with very talented rosters won a total of just 1 postseason series. What's he going to do with the SFG roster of 30-somethings platoon players and 20-somethings with "promise"? Coax Posey out of retirement?
RE: SF Giants 2024 - OutsiderFan - 10-25-2023
Wait, I was told on this board the Giants defense was good in '23. You mean having slow players all over the field and committing the most errors in MLB actually does equate to poor defense?
RE: SF Giants 2024 - lex24 - 10-25-2023
Giants dateline='[url=tel:1698209252' Wrote: 1698209252[/url]']
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1698204837' Wrote: 1698204837[/url]']
BobK dateline='[url=tel:1698194508' Wrote: 1698194508[/url]']
Interesting that Matt Williams is a coach for the Padres/ The Giants top priority now is a new hitting coach. Yes I saw the existing one has another year on his contract.
Giants finished 24th in OPS+ after finishing 15th last year and 4th the year before that. Our current hitting coach should be our former hitting coach ASAP.
As for pitching, the Giants finished 2nd in all of MLB for FIP in both 2021 and 2022, and 4th in MLB this year. Very good. Keep the pitching coach.
FIP was great, but team ERA was 12th in MLB this year, 13th last year and 2nd in MLB in ERA in 2021. Not only that, the Giants finished 5th in Rtot, the most comprehensive fielding statistic. 2nd in pitching, 4th in hitting, 5th in fielding. No wonder they won 107 games.
And then somehow, they got stupid. They forgot how to field. After finishing 5th in Rtot in 2021, they dropped precipitously to 28th in 2022 and 25th in 2023. No wonder they became a .500 team. They fell in all three major categories. Fielding was a disaster, and dragged down the pitching. But 24th in OPS+ in 2023? It's a miracle they won 79 games. Must have been the managing. Oh right, we fired that guy.
And just a fun little aside...in 2023, the Padres finished 5th in Rtot, 11th in FIP, 2nd in ERA, and 9th in OPS+. How does that team finish 82-80 -- and win 14 of their last 16 to get there -- finish in the top 1/3rd in baseball in all major categories, but at the 50th percentile for W/L? Normally, I'd point at the manager, but I can't really do that since he's now our manager...
I think SF will have new leadership handling the pitching.
Bannister has moved on to Chicago and Bailey is looking to work closer to home (East Coast). Boston is considering him. Speaking of which, Kapler is under consideration for the top baseball operations job in Boston. Wouldn’t that be a story?
On Kapler, I would not at all be surprised to see him land a FO job. It is what he’s more suited for. I would be very surprised if he manages again anytime soon.
Update: He didn’t get Boston job.
Nobadeer dateline='[url=tel:1698215317' Wrote: 1698215317[/url]']
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1698172273' Wrote: 1698172273[/url]']
cardcrimson dateline='[url=tel:1698170306' Wrote: 1698170306[/url]']
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1698169785' Wrote: 1698169785[/url]']
Giants are about to announce Bob Melvin as their new manager.
Bummer. I was hoping for Alyssa Nakken. . . .
The Giants have it on their web site.
Bob Melvin to be hired as Giants manager (sources) (mlb.com).
Personally, I don't think it's a good idea. He's coached for 20 seasons, finished first in his division 4 times and made the wild card four times. His teams were ousted in three of the four wild card games, and ousted in the NLDS three times. So in 20 years, Melvin made it to the NLCS just once and was ousted in five games. This year, he had eight Padres players who had multiple all-star games on their resume, along with six other players who were gold glove winners, or finished in the Top Five of Cy Young voting multiple times or were single-time all-star game participants. In other words, he had a LOADED roster...that had to win 14 of their last 16 games to finish 82-80 with the third highest payroll in baseball at $249 mms., and finished three games ahead of the Giants, a team with a roster nearly bereft of hitting and fielding talent.
Melvin doesn't excite me at all. I have the exact opposite feeling, and it will be the first year in many, many years that I won't buy a ticket. And after they go 3-7 in their first ten games, I probably won't watch them on TV either.
If this team wins 78 games next year, I will be very surprised. But hey, BoMel ix a 3x Manager of the Year (Kapler only won it once). Maybe BoMel will turn all the first and second year players into All-Stars. Here's hoping...
Agree totally on BoMel, it's cool that he went to M-A, Cal, kept the A's relevant despite annual exodus of star players due to A's cheap owner, blah blah. But all his great teams in Oakland with very talented rosters won a total of just 1 postseason series. What's he going to do with the SFG roster of 30-somethings platoon players and 20-somethings with "promise"? Coax Posey out of retirement?
Well, no matter who Giants hired as manager, improving the roster has to occur. Melvin may help with that. I expect a significant amount of turnover.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - lex24 - 10-25-2023
One thing I haven’t read is Melvin’s ability to work with young players. Given his work at Oakland, I suspect that’s another plus.
Hope Andrew Bailey is back. But I read he’s interested in getting back to East Coast. Melvin, I assume will get to pick his hitting, pitching, first base, third base and bench coaches. I’d be surprised if any of the Giants current coaches retake those positions - with possible exception of Bailey.
Bigger question - who stays from current roster among the non-rookie regulars. (Again excepting Bailey, albeit Patrick)
“Locks”
Of - Yaz, Haniger
Inf - Wade, Estrada Flores
C Bailey
DH Sabol
Davis, Slater possible trade pieces. Conforto opt out or trade.
Pitching (non rookies except Walker)
“Locks”
Webb
Cobb
Rogers
Rogers
L. Jackson
Walker
Stripling (contract - although I could see them dumping him as sunk cost)
Doval
Point is - there are a lot of questions and potential openings. Both for rookies and FA’s, trades. Going to be a tremendously interesting Winter.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - BobK - 10-25-2023
Harrison lock :)
Nice analysis. However the free agent market doesn’t seem strong. I’m really against trading young players for older.
I wanted Bellinger last year. How about now?
RE: SF Giants 2024 - gailtate - 10-25-2023
Giants + Melvin = Net Gain. Fortunate to have him.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Mick - 10-25-2023
(10-25-2023, 06:47 AM)lex24 Wrote: One thing I haven’t read is Melvin’s ability to work with young players. Given his work at Oakland, I suspect that’s another plus.
Hope Andrew Bailey is back. But I read he’s interested in getting back to East Coast. Melvin, I assume will get to pick his hitting, pitching, first base, third base and bench coaches. I’d be surprised if any of the Giants current coaches retake those positions - with possible exception of Bailey.
Bigger question - who stays from current roster among the non-rookie regulars. (Again excepting Bailey, albeit Patrick)
“Locks”
Of - Yaz, Haniger
Inf - Wade, Estrada Flores
C Bailey
DH Sabol
Davis, Slater possible trade pieces. Conforto opt out or trade.
Pitching (non rookies except Walker)
“Locks”
Webb
Cobb
Rogers
Rogers
L. Jackson
Walker
Stripling (contract - although I could see them dumping him as sunk cost)
Doval
Point is - there are a lot of questions and potential openings. Both for rookies and FA’s, trades. Going to be a tremendously interesting Winter.
Pederson was 4th on the team with a 111 OPS+ and Slater was 5th with 107. Slater also had the third highest batting average on the team at .270. He's an excellent outfielder, particularly in the corners (probably shouldn't be in center). You mentioned both JD Davis and Austin Slater as trade bait. Davis had the sixth highest OPS+ on the team at 103.
I suspect they keep him. Pederson...tough call. I sure wouldn't pay him $18 mms., which is barely enough for all the loaded burritos he apparently consumes. Not sure I'd keep Sabol as DH. He's not very good in the field at all, and he's a 91 OPS+, considerably below the major league average. But as poorly as Sabol did, only Tyler Fitzgerald (98 OPS+) did reasonably well. The rest were consdierably below average: Matos (84), Luciano (80), Bailey (77), Meckler (64), Schmitt (60), Ramos (48), Wisely (38) and Johnson (35). I hope Melvin and whoever he hires as a hitting coach can work miracles.
On the pitching side, I'd definitely keep Junis and Beck and maybe Brebbia in addition to the names you mentioned, and I'd release Stripling if only because he complained to the media when is performance was godawful. I'd keep Scott Alexander whose FIP was third best on the team, he was victimized by poor fielding more than most. Kyle Harrison's FIP was among the worst on the team, incidentally.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Giants - 10-25-2023
1. Dump Pederson
2. Dump Pederson
3. Did I say dump Pederson
He is a symbol of everything that was wrong with the Giants this year both on and off the field.
4. Either teach Slater the fundamentals of playing the outfield or get rid of him. We are still waiting for the first time he makes the right decision regarding where to throw the ball after making a play with runners on base.
5. Urge Conforto to decline his option (beg, if necessary) and send Yaz to a clinician who specializes in strengthening leg muscles.
6. Trade Davis even if the return is a bag of fungo bats.
7. Stop trading/signing players with injury history’s (aka: the Baalke syndrome). Only consider guys with excellent health records.
8. Keep Stripling as a long guy in the bullpen and Sabol as a DH.
9. Sign Yamamoto and Lee.
10. Stop platooning and let the young guys sink or swim. I think most will prove to be fine swimmers.
Signed,
Cranky Giants fan who is very pleased with the hiring of Melvin.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - BobK - 10-25-2023
Having spent many hours at the old Old Pro on El Camino owned by Peterson’s grandfather I disagree. What did Peterson do off the field ? I missed that
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Giants - 10-25-2023
BobK dateline='[url=tel:1698259062' Wrote: 1698259062[/url]']
Having spent many hours at the old Old Pro on El Camino owned by Peterson’s grandfather I disagree. What did Peterson do off the field ? I missed that
Didn’t make an effort to stay in shape and was a problem in the clubhouse (per Baggerly).
Zaidi gets a couple more years!
It was announced today that Melvin received a three year contract and that Johnson and Zaidi are finalizing an additional two years on his deal. Both will be around through 2026.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - TrumpCard - 10-25-2023
This thread is offensive to people who live in cities where other NL West teams play.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Mick - 10-25-2023
(10-25-2023, 11:50 AM)Giants Wrote:BobK dateline='[url=tel:1698259062' Wrote: 1698259062[/url]']
Having spent many hours at the old Old Pro on El Camino owned by Peterson’s grandfather I disagree. What did Peterson do off the field ? I missed that
Didn’t make an effort to stay in shape and was a problem in the clubhouse (per Baggerly).
Zaidi gets a couple more years!
It was announced today that Melvin received a three year contract and that Johnson and Zaidi are finalizing an additional two years on his deal. Both will be around through 2026.
Desperately hoping it's April 1...
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Giants - 10-25-2023
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1698270166' Wrote: 1698270166[/url]']
Giants dateline='[url=tel:1698259841' Wrote: 1698259841[/url]']
BobK dateline='[url=tel:1698259062' Wrote: 1698259062[/url]']
Having spent many hours at the old Old Pro on El Camino owned by Peterson’s grandfather I disagree. What did Peterson do off the field ? I missed that
Didn’t make an effort to stay in shape and was a problem in the clubhouse (per Baggerly).
Zaidi gets a couple more years!
It was announced today that Melvin received a three year contract and that Johnson and Zaidi are finalizing an additional two years on his deal. Both will be around through 2026.
Desperately hoping it's April 1...
Nope. Speaking as a person who is not a big fan of Zaidi, I can only hope that Johnson had a “come to Jesus” meeting with him before offering to extend his contract. We shall see…..
RE: SF Giants 2024 - OutsiderFan - 10-25-2023
Maybe Greg Johnson is keen to how organizations are perceived from the outside and wants the Giants to look buttoned up as they hit the free agency market.
It doesn't exactly scream stability when the VP Baseball Ops is in final year of his contract which a new manager being hired on a 3-year deal. So extend Zaidi two years to line up with the manager. This stuff probably matters to agents more than players, but at least it looks like they have their act together and are on same page for the direction they are headed.
Moreover, if either or both guys suck too much they can easily be fired. Team just has to eat a few million bucks and MLB teams are used to doing a lot of that kind of eating.
The Giants have now once again sucked the fans in and teed up the "we will not be outbid" football again. Will they finally not pull the ball from the fans this year?
This time feels a bit different than last year's free agent abortion, and the Melvin hire seems to be a deliberate move to make signing the Asian apples of their eye a reality. I remain skeptical until I see them actually win a bidding war at the highest level.
The good news for Giants is they don't need to sign Ohtani to have a successful offseason. If they do sign the two Asian guys and acquire a couple other pieces, they will have won back much needed good will with the fans.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Giants - 10-25-2023
OutsiderFan dateline='[url=tel:1698276745' Wrote: 1698276745[/url]']
Maybe Greg Johnson is keen to how organizations are perceived from the outside and wants the Giants to look buttoned up as they hit the free agency market.
It doesn't exactly scream stability when the VP Baseball Ops is in final year of his contract which a new manager being hired on a 3-year deal. So extend Zaidi two years to line up with the manager. This stuff probably matters to agents more than players, but at least it looks like they have their act together and are on same page for the direction they are headed.
Moreover, if either or both guys suck too much they can easily be fired. Team just has to eat a few million bucks and MLB teams are used to doing a lot of that kind of eating.
The Giants have now once again sucked the fans in and teed up the "we will not be outbid" football again. Will they finally not pull the ball from the fans this year?
This time feels a bit different than last year's free agent abortion, and the Melvin hire seems to be a deliberate move to make signing the Asian apples of their eye a reality. I remain skeptical until I see them actually win a bidding war at the highest level.
The good news for Giants is they don't need to sign Ohtani to have a successful offseason. If they do sign the two Asian guys and acquire a couple other pieces, they will have won back much needed good will with the fans.
How soon we forget Correa’s 13 year $350 million deal…..
(thanks to the team physician, it was never signed).
RE: SF Giants 2024 - cardcrimson - 10-25-2023
(10-25-2023, 06:16 PM)Giants Wrote:OutsiderFan dateline='[url=tel:1698276745' Wrote: 1698276745[/url]']
Maybe Greg Johnson is keen to how organizations are perceived from the outside and wants the Giants to look buttoned up as they hit the free agency market.
It doesn't exactly scream stability when the VP Baseball Ops is in final year of his contract which a new manager being hired on a 3-year deal. So extend Zaidi two years to line up with the manager. This stuff probably matters to agents more than players, but at least it looks like they have their act together and are on same page for the direction they are headed.
Moreover, if either or both guys suck too much they can easily be fired. Team just has to eat a few million bucks and MLB teams are used to doing a lot of that kind of eating.
The Giants have now once again sucked the fans in and teed up the "we will not be outbid" football again. Will they finally not pull the ball from the fans this year?
This time feels a bit different than last year's free agent abortion, and the Melvin hire seems to be a deliberate move to make signing the Asian apples of their eye a reality. I remain skeptical until I see them actually win a bidding war at the highest level.
The good news for Giants is they don't need to sign Ohtani to have a successful offseason. If they do sign the two Asian guys and acquire a couple other pieces, they will have won back much needed good will with the fans.
How soon we forget Correa’s 13 year $350 million deal…..
(thanks to the team physician, it was never signed).
I don't think Judge's offer was outbid, either.
Abortion? Let's keep politics out of the discussion.