WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - Printable Version
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 (/thread-24401.html)
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 (/thread-24401.html)
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - Mick - 09-11-2023
(09-11-2023, 10:44 AM)Leftcoast Wrote: In the real and non-sports world Stanford champions the energy and influence of the West Coast's institutions and vision as a different yet equal alternative to those of the East Coast. Sports isn't going to reverse that alternative vision but somehow joining the ACC just seems ... wrong. And not very Stanford-like. May this step Eastward be a short-lived one that is half-heartedly embraced by fans and corrected soon.
I wish we had thumbed our nose at the stupidity driving modern sports conferences and formed the best coalition possible with the remaining West coast teams. I fully understand that this option won't happen but until then, aren't we all proud to be members of an ATLANTIC COAST conference???? So, so illogical and counter ordinary logic and Stanford's Pacific values.
In the meantime, shouldn't we all cheer on and maybe even admire the rump version of the Pac and the MWC as they preserve a true West Coast alternative? I do and wish Stanford had the courage to do the same despite all the logic behind trading identity for stability.
(And of course, F@#K backstabbing USC and UCLA).
+1. This would have been the way to go.
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - chrisk - 09-11-2023
A lot is going to depend on whether the football powers split off completely from the current structure.
If they do, conferences for other sports could revert to more logical geographic groupings.
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - 2006alum - 09-11-2023
The state trial court largely entered the TRO Wazzu and OSU sought.
Love the thoughts about what Stanford should have done instead of join the ACC, but I'd post those in the ACC thread instead of here.
Also: as much as I agree with y'all in spirit, unless and until football breaks off, not being in a P4 conference would have decimated our non-revenue sports recruiting. This was a bridge until sanity can be restored. Cobbling together the MWPac-8 would have been a bridge to nowhere.
triangle2 - triangle2 - 09-11-2023
Whitman County Judge grants TRO to stop Pac-12 Meeting
Round 1 to WSU and OSU. Insert Applause Meme here…
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - Mick - 09-11-2023
(09-11-2023, 02:35 PM)2006alum Wrote: The state trial court largely entered the TRO Wazzu and OSU sought.
Love the thoughts about what Stanford should have done instead of join the ACC, but I'd post those in the ACC thread instead of here.
Also: as much as I agree with y'all in spirit, unless and until football breaks off, not being in a P4 conference would have decimated our non-revenue sports recruiting. This was a bridge until sanity can be restored. Cobbling together the MWPac-8 would have been a bridge to nowhere.
I wonder about that. Stanford has superb programs and an unmatchable 40-year-decision brand. I think they would have come here anyways.
I do think it will massively improve our basketball recruiting, at least on the men's side. Possibly have a positive effect on soccer.
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - Farm93 - 09-11-2023
(09-11-2023, 05:28 PM)Mick Wrote:No way to the idea of coming here anyway.(09-11-2023, 02:35 PM)2006alum Wrote: The state trial court largely entered the TRO Wazzu and OSU sought.
Love the thoughts about what Stanford should have done instead of join the ACC, but I'd post those in the ACC thread instead of here.
Also: as much as I agree with y'all in spirit, unless and until football breaks off, not being in a P4 conference would have decimated our non-revenue sports recruiting. This was a bridge until sanity can be restored. Cobbling together the MWPac-8 would have been a bridge to nowhere.
I wonder about that. Stanford has superb programs and an unmatchable 40-year-decision brand. I think they would have come here anyways.
I do think it will massively improve our basketball recruiting, at least on the men's side. Possibly have a positive effect on soccer.
There are a number of highly selective schools with access to lower tier D1 competition.
Stanford in a Pac-4 to MWC or to BigWest would be less desirable for most current HS athletes than more stable situations.
Most top D1 athletes in Olympic sports understand that there is not much after college in their sports, but they still would like to compete for team titles in college and have a solid 40 year option.
For most sports a slate of weak competition during the regular season would leave them unprepared to do well in the post-season.
The competitiveness of OSU and WSU in most Olympic sports has been close to what is common in West coast mid-majors. The loss of annual P5 TV revenue will hurt, the cost of their upgrades in progress will hurt more, but getting the Pac-12 assets could help a bit.
Oregon State is pretty solid in football this year, and I would love to see them win the Pac-12 Football CG.
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - M T - 09-11-2023
I wonder if we’ll see more “technical difficulties” preventing Pac-12 channel broadcasts. If there aren’t enough staff for the broadcasts, I can imagine some creative ways to put pressure to get a board meeting to deal with staffing.
Mudhead - Mudhead - 09-11-2023
fullmetal dateline='[url=tel:1694457389' Wrote: 1694457389[/url]']
I think we took a short-term lifeline at a short-term expense of our values, student-athlete experience and fan experience. I wasn't in the room where it happened.
Well, I wasn’t in the room either. Given the choices, join the ACC or stay with a dead 6 team PAC ? Or join the Mountain West, I would have voted to join the ACC. In a heartbeat. How would you have voted ?
RE: triangle2 - Mick - 10-25-2023
(09-11-2023, 02:38 PM)triangle2 Wrote: Whitman County Judge grants TRO to stop Pac-12 Meeting
Round 1 to WSU and OSU. Insert Applause Meme here…
OSU and WSU have filed a motion for an injunction to gain control of the Pac-12 board. Not much new here, essentially just asking the firm to confirm that the other 10 schools have purposefully vacated the Pac-12 and are not entitled to any power or vote over its future, and that sole leadership of the conference belongs to OSU and WSU.
https://theathletic.com/4998183/2023/10/25/oregon-state-wazzu-injunction-pac-12/
OSU and WSU's perspective:
https://theathletic.com/4887805/2023/09/21/oregon-state-washington-state-pac-12-realignment/
University of Washington is pushing to dismiss the OSU/WSU injunction. The other nine departing Pac-12 schools filed a motion to support UW's claim that they weren't really departing (not really). The schools from outside the state of filing have claimed sovereign state immunity. Only new news is that the Villanous 10 have entered into mediation with the Virtuous Duo. The dispute in a paragraph:
"A lawyer representing Oregon State and Washington State argued at the Sept. 11 hearing that eight schools — Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Utah, Oregon, Washington, Stanford, and California — forfeited their right to be on the Pac-12 board when they announced their intentions to join other conferences next year. USC and UCLA were stripped of voting rights by the Pac-12 in the summer of 2022 when they decided to join the Big Ten. The two schools are arguing that their peers announcing they’re joining new conferences is equivalent to giving the Pac-12 its formal notice, a contention that has been disputed by the departing schools."
https://theathletic.com/4946840/2023/10/09/washington-washington-state-oregon-state-pac-12-lawsuit/
Could OSU and WSU resurrect the Pac-12 corpse with other schools? Maybe...but do they want to, especially considering outstanding liabilities. Best strategy? Stall for two years and operate as a two team conference. The MWC and AA media agreements come to an end by then:
https://theathletic.com/4826750/2023/09/01/oregon-state-washington-state-pac-12-mwc/
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - skip75 - 10-25-2023
Here's another perspective from OSU & WSU
https://lavengift.com/oregon-state-beavers-vs-washington-state-cougars-pac-2-good-riddance-to-the-rest-of-you-shirt-black?product=unisex-standard-t-shirt&variant_key=navy-m&color=navy&size=m&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw-eKpBhAbEiwAqFL0mhODXcY0L-vT73JuOWMv-7l5toum9OATb_St2DUDzrGmvAr0aGsQORoCZvsQAvD_BwE
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - Mick - 10-31-2023
According to this article, OSU and WSU are seeking a waiver for next year so that the two-team conference is eligible for championships and they are also seeking an "affiliation" with an existing conference.
What will happen to the Pac-12? Exploring possible alternatives for George Kliavkoff's powerhouse in 2024 (msn.com)
Two year grace period expires in 2026. Expansion from the Group of Five is the strategy. They're not under pressure to make a hasty decision. They're looking at the MWC and the AAC, specifically teams who want to gain Power Five status. Based upon College RPI rankings, the top ten teams from those two conferences based upon ESPN's Power Index would include:
In: Air Force, Fresno State, Boise State, San Jose State, UNLV, Wyoming, SMU, Tulane, Memphis, UTSA, Rice, Florida Atlantic
Out: Utah State, San Diego State, Colorado State, New Mexico, UN-Reno, Hawaii, East Carolina, UAB, North Texas, South Florida, Navy, UNC Charlotte, Tulsa, Temple
Cutoff is roughly a .500 record. Minor adjustments might be made, probably trade San Diego State for Florida Atlantic.
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - jk1926 - 10-31-2023
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1698787838' Wrote: 1698787838[/url]']
According to this article, OSU and WSU are seeking a waiver for next year so that the two-team conference is eligible for championships and they are also seeking an "affiliation" with an existing conference.
What will happen to the Pac-12? Exploring possible alternatives for George Kliavkoff's powerhouse in 2024 (msn.com)
Two year grace period expires in 2026. Expansion from the Group of Five is the strategy. They're not under pressure to make a hasty decision. They're looking at the MWC and the AAC, specifically teams who want to gain Power Five status. Based upon College RPI rankings, the top ten teams from those two conferences based upon ESPN's Power Index would include:
In: Air Force, Fresno State, Boise State, San Jose State, UNLV, Wyoming, SMU, Tulane, Memphis, UTSA, Rice, Florida Atlantic
Out: Utah State, San Diego State, Colorado State, New Mexico, UN-Reno, Hawaii, East Carolina, UAB, North Texas, South Florida, Navy, UNC Charlotte, Tulsa, Temple
Cutoff is roughly a .500 record. Minor adjustments might be made, probably trade San Diego State for Florida Atlantic.
SMU joining the ACC in 2024 along with Stanford and Cal.
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - Mick - 10-31-2023
(10-31-2023, 02:37 PM)jk1926 Wrote:Mick dateline='[url=tel:1698787838' Wrote: 1698787838[/url]']
According to this article, OSU and WSU are seeking a waiver for next year so that the two-team conference is eligible for championships and they are also seeking an "affiliation" with an existing conference.
What will happen to the Pac-12? Exploring possible alternatives for George Kliavkoff's powerhouse in 2024 (msn.com)
Two year grace period expires in 2026. Expansion from the Group of Five is the strategy. They're not under pressure to make a hasty decision. They're looking at the MWC and the AAC, specifically teams who want to gain Power Five status. Based upon College RPI rankings, the top ten teams from those two conferences based upon ESPN's Power Index would include:
In: Air Force, Fresno State, Boise State, San Jose State, UNLV, Wyoming, SMU, Tulane, Memphis, UTSA, Rice, Florida Atlantic
Out: Utah State, San Diego State, Colorado State, New Mexico, UN-Reno, Hawaii, East Carolina, UAB, North Texas, South Florida, Navy, UNC Charlotte, Tulsa, Temple, SMU
Cutoff is roughly a .500 record. Minor adjustments might be made, probably trade San Diego State for Florida Atlantic.
SMU joining the ACC in 2024 along with Stanford and Cal.
In: Air Force, Fresno State, Boise State, San Jose State, UNLV, Wyoming, SMU, Tulane, Memphis, UTSA, Rice, San Diego State
Out: Utah State, Colorado State, New Mexico, UN-Reno, Hawaii, East Carolina, UAB, North Texas, South Florida, Navy, UNC Charlotte, Tulsa, Temple, SMU, Florida Atlantic
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - Mick - 11-12-2023
Plaintiffs and defendants agreed to enter mediation in early October. Big hearing on Tuesday. Wilner lays it out as follows:
Scenario 1: Settlement vs. mediation. Compromise would be 10 outbound schools relinquish their board votes, WSU and OSU get to control the future of the conference. WSU and OSU agree to distribute most of the 2023-24 revenue ($25 mms. to $30 mms. per school). 50% likelihood.
Scenario 2: Case concludes Tuesday. Since case is filed in Washington, UWash opposes the request for preliminary injunction granting board control to WSU and OSU. Judge already ruled in favor of WSU and OSU re: the TRO that brought board business to a halt. If no settlement, Judge Libey is expected to rule on preliminary injunction request. WSU has home court advantage. Likelihood of conclusion Tuesday: 0.1%.
Scenario 3: Loser appeals to Washington Supreme Court in Olympia. Turns a road game into a neutral court. Presiding judge likely to have UW ties. Appeal could take months.
Pac-12 lawsuit: WSU, OSU and scenarios for Nov. 14 hearing (mercurynews.com)
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - triangle2 - 11-12-2023
(11-12-2023, 10:56 PM)Mick Wrote: Plaintiffs and defendants agreed to enter mediation in early October. Big hearing on Tuesday. Wilner lays it out as follows:
Scenario 1: Settlement vs. mediation. Compromise would be 10 outbound schools relinquish their board votes, WSU and OSU get to control the future of the conference. WSU and OSU agree to distribute most of the 2023-24 revenue ($25 mms. to $30 mms. per school). 50% likelihood.
Scenario 2: Case concludes Tuesday. Since case is filed in Washington, UWash opposes the request for preliminary injunction granting board control to WSU and OSU. Judge already ruled in favor of WSU and OSU re: the TRO that brought board business to a halt. If no settlement, Judge Libey is expected to rule on preliminary injunction request. WSU has home court advantage. Likelihood of conclusion Tuesday: 0.1%.
Scenario 3: Loser appeals to Washington Supreme Court in Olympia. Turns a road game into a neutral court. Presiding judge likely to have UW ties. Appeal could take months.
Pac-12 lawsuit: WSU, OSU and scenarios for Nov. 14 hearing (mercurynews.com)
Would an appeal really go directly to the Washington Supreme Court? I mean, losers could petition for review, but it seems to me that the case goes to Division III of the Court of Appeals with a request for expedited review. (See RCW 2.06.030.) Even if a party asks, the Washington Supreme Court can say no.
On the other hand, if the WA Supreme Court thought that these were "fundamental and urgent issues of broad public import requiring prompt and ultimate determination," they could make an appeal happen on a shortened timeline.
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - oldalum - 11-13-2023
I'm surprised no one has forced them to decamp the whole thing to federal court under diversity jurisdiction.
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - Mick - 11-13-2023
(11-12-2023, 11:46 PM)triangle2 Wrote:(11-12-2023, 10:56 PM)Mick Wrote: Plaintiffs and defendants agreed to enter mediation in early October. Big hearing on Tuesday. Wilner lays it out as follows:
Scenario 1: Settlement vs. mediation. Compromise would be 10 outbound schools relinquish their board votes, WSU and OSU get to control the future of the conference. WSU and OSU agree to distribute most of the 2023-24 revenue ($25 mms. to $30 mms. per school). 50% likelihood.
Scenario 2: Case concludes Tuesday. Since case is filed in Washington, UWash opposes the request for preliminary injunction granting board control to WSU and OSU. Judge already ruled in favor of WSU and OSU re: the TRO that brought board business to a halt. If no settlement, Judge Libey is expected to rule on preliminary injunction request. WSU has home court advantage. Likelihood of conclusion Tuesday: 0.1%.
Scenario 3: Loser appeals to Washington Supreme Court in Olympia. Turns a road game into a neutral court. Presiding judge likely to have UW ties. Appeal could take months.
Pac-12 lawsuit: WSU, OSU and scenarios for Nov. 14 hearing (mercurynews.com)
Would an appeal really go directly to the Washington Supreme Court? I mean, losers could petition for review, but it seems to me that the case goes to Division III of the Court of Appeals with a request for expedited review. (See RCW 2.06.030.) Even if a party asks, the Washington Supreme Court can say no.
On the other hand, if the WA Supreme Court thought that these were "fundamental and urgent issues of broad public import requiring prompt and ultimate determination," they could make an appeal happen on a shortened timeline.
I think with the priority of football and the two signature universities in the state of Washington at each other's throats, with a deadline rapidly approaching, I suspect your latter paragraph will mean that it goes to the WASC.
And yes, Judge Libey who issued the original TRO was a WSU alum...
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - dabigv13 - 11-14-2023
Libey rules for WSU and OSU to be the only board members.
I'm still sort of flummoxed about why this is in WA state court (IANAL though). Since Pac is based in CA and most of the schools are not in WA wouldn't a better venue be CA or federal court?
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - Mick - 11-14-2023
(11-14-2023, 05:56 PM)dabigv13 Wrote: Libey rules for WSU and OSU to be the only board members.
I'm still sort of flummoxed about why this is in WA state court (IANAL though). Since Pac is based in CA and most of the schools are not in WA wouldn't a better venue be CA or federal court?
If memory serves, WSU's President was the president of the Pac-12 board. I think he's happy with the forum he selected. An attorney in the original TRO hearing argued that the only court that should hear the case is the U. S. Supreme Court. I suspect the appeal will go to the Washington State Supreme Court. The Chief Justice of that court is a Berkeley grad. The rest are USC, Washington (youngest on the court), two from Gonzaga, Notre Dame, North Carolina and two from Seattle.
RE: WSU and OSU have sued the Pac-12 - dabigv13 - 11-15-2023
Not being lawyer, I'm guessing the reason the 10 haven't tried to change venue is they will let UW fight the fight for now, and if they get adverse rulings in WA appeals, the other 9 schools could then sue in their preferred venue. For the 2, they want quick resolution so they can figure out next year and beyond, but for the 10 that is not so important, they can drag things out until OSU and WSU agrees to a "fair" settlement. As long as the threat of more lawsuits is around, nothing is really settled by what happens in WA.
Happy for someone who knows better to explain this venue deal though.