The CardBoard
WBB 2023-2024 Season - Printable Version

+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: WBB 2023-2024 Season (/thread-24288.html)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57

RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - BobK - 04-05-2023

Thanks Jk always appreciate your take on UCLA

RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - stopandpop - 04-05-2023

So, what about the challenges and opportunities our team will be facing in 2023-2024?   May I throw out a few questions, which I prefer doing?

Big picture question:  From your perspectives, what (if any) lessons from 2022-2023 do you think were learned and likely to be addressed next season?  I still have visions of UCLA overcoming our 16 point lead in the PAC-12 semi's and definitely visions of Mississippi in our 2nd. round game.

If Tara elects to use the transfer portal for a grad transfer, what kind of player (and position) do you think the team needs to have an immediate impact?

Brink (arguably) has become a transformational player and likely will be on the short list for POY.  We are fortunate to have her one more season and (with her), a good opportunity in 2023-2024 to return to the Regionals and hopefully to another Final Four.  But getting there may likely require changes.  What do you think we might see that would make the team more potent and less vulnerable?  In a way, this relates to the first question.

Thank you all and fire away!

RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - BobK - 04-05-2023

Elect to use the grad transfer portal is so very hard at Stanford. Easily to get an Undergrad transfer. So if you mean someone accepted to a Stanford grad program and say two other programs then A Guard who can shoot threes. And yes go hard.

RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - BostonCard - 04-05-2023

(04-05-2023, 02:05 PM)BobK Wrote:  Elect to use the grad transfer portal is so very hard at Stanford. Easily to get an Undergrad transfer.  So if you mean someone accepted to a Stanford grad program and say two other programs  then A Guard who can shoot threes.  And yes go hard.

Agree, the transfer portal is not a self-service kiosk, and Tara can't conjure up a player made to order.  Agree that a guard with good three point shooting and driving ability would be very useful, but they don't grow on trees, and identifying one who has interest in Stanford, has the academics to be accepted, and the skills to be helpful to the team is a needle in a haystack.  Two years ago, Jordan Hamilton grad transferred from Northwestern, but we are talking about a player who wound up averaging 7 minutes/game, and scored 25 points all season.  I'm sure that had the stars aligned, we would have rather taken a point guard who could have started ahead of Anna Wilson, but beggars can't be choosers.

The most likely outcome is that we aren't able to get anyone from the transfer portal and the scholarship will lie fallow (or be given to Lauren Green for a year), or that if we do, it will be to a player who only gives us a marginal contribution.  As much as I would like it otherwise, I just don't see us being able to get a transfer from someone who would be in the top-7 of the rotation.

BC

RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - 81alum - 04-05-2023

(04-05-2023, 11:26 AM)BillBradley Wrote:  On the other end of the spectrum, does it really matter much to their academics if a player transfers from one big state school to another? I doubt it. When it comes to the major sports, these players are consumed by the time, effort, commitment required to compete. They spend way more time on their sport then they do their academics. They are athlete-students, not student-athletes. Your question of "why should academic institutions be in the athletics business?" is on point. For many schools and sports, the answer IMO is "they shouldn't". Athletics have evolved to a point where things just don't make sense anymore under an educational system umbrella. I'm quite sure in 50 years the organization of "sports for 18 to 23 year olds" won't even resemble what we have now.
BillBradley, I love your posts.  You come across as an incredibly reasonable and knowledgeable person!  There is only one statement you make that I would dispute.  Having spent 30 years off-and-on as an academic advisor at a big state school, I can emphatically say that it does make a big difference when a player transfers from one big state school to another--especially (but not exclusively) across state lines.  The general education package required by the UC and the CSU, for example, is vastly different from the packages required by Texas or Florida. 

In short, all transfers come with an academic price.  Players that transfer several times are setting themselves up for academic disaster.  I wonder how many of them ever graduate from any institution.

I especially agree with your last observations.  I have thought for years--and my conviction grows stronger and not weaker--that all college sports need to follow the baseball model.  There need to be choices.  Those who want to focus on the sport exclusively should have the option of minor leagues.  Those who are serious about an education should have college teams--with clear restrictions that prioritize their academics.
(04-05-2023, 01:57 PM)stopandpop Wrote:  So, what about the challenges and opportunities our team will be facing in 2023-2024?   May I throw out a few questions, which I prefer doing?

Big picture question:  From your perspectives, what (if any) lessons from 2022-2023 do you think were learned and likely to be addressed next season?  I still have visions of UCLA overcoming our 16 point lead in the PAC-12 semi's and definitely visions of Mississippi in our 2nd. round game.

If Tara elects to use the transfer portal for a grad transfer, what kind of player (and position) do you think the team needs to have an immediate impact?

Brink (arguably) has become a transformational player and likely will be on the short list for POY.  We are fortunate to have her one more season and (with her), a good opportunity in 2023-2024 to return to the Regionals and hopefully to another Final Four.  But getting there may likely require changes.  What do you think we might see that would make the team more potent and less vulnerable?  In a way, this relates to the first question.

Thank you all and fire away!
Stop, in my opinion you are asking many of the right questions.  I wish any of us had good answers!  Tara has to work with what she has, plus maybe a single transfer student, and whatever the incoming freshmen give her. 

We as fans don't know how much work our returning student-athletes are willing to put in during the off season to dramatically improve certain facets of their game.  Those who think they may have a pro career will probably put in a lot of extra hours and may indeed come back with major improvements.  I have hope that Jump will develop more mobility, that Brink will develop a more reliable three point shot, that Iriafen will develop her mid range jumper, etc.  Those are all reasonable expectations, but in the past, such expectations are realized maybe 50% of the time.  I think they may be inspired when they see what happens to Haley Jones.  I predict her draft stock will diminish as WNBA coaches realize that the fact that she did not develop a three point shot, and that her mid range jumper was not consistent--makes it hard to figure out where to play her.  Tara had a hard time figuring out where to play her, too.  So remaining pro-prospects on the roster may be inspired to diversify their games.

We as fans also don't know how polished our incoming freshmen will be--particularly on defense.  Tara's mantra is that she recruits offense and teaches defense.  If any of the three are able to be strong defenders early, they are likely to make first year contributions.  Courtney Ogden is the most accomplished of the three on offense, so paradoxically a lot will hinge on her defense--if she can play college-level defense early then I expect to see her logging a lot of minutes to give us a much needed offensive boost.  Otherwise, it won't be until her sophomore year.

If I had to say one thing that needs improvement on offense it is this:  we desperately need to become a much better screening team.  Static offenses where you pass the ball to an "open" player who shoots are becoming more and more problematic.  We need to create shots, and that often means losing a defender with a screen.  We were not good with screens last year, and that makes a "flow" offense "unflowable." 

More than anything else, I would like to see us become a really, really, really good screening team.  And that requires a lot of practice to develop the timing between the bigs and the guards.  And that means knowing who the bigs and the guards are going to be--too many of either and the consistency and timing will fail.  Often the quality of the screen depends on one particular guard developing timing with one particular "big."  The timing is not usually interchangeable like widgets in a factory.  So having a consistent lineup helps.  If this works, it also sets up Cam to receive a lot of pick-and-rolls after she screens, provided she does not foul out on offensive screens as she has been want to do.

RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - jonnyss - 04-05-2023

i agree on screens. we were big on the elevator screen, but it rarely seemed to lead to good shots. simple screens by the big at the top of the key rarely freed a shooter. cam and haley got called for moving screens a lot. we did not seem to have a smooth (or effective) screen-and-roll.

i am less convinced that it's a continuity of personnel problem. hannah and haley each played at least 35 minutes most games, yet haley rarely set a screen for hannah.

RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - jk1926 - 04-05-2023

(04-05-2023, 01:30 PM)BobK Wrote:  Thanks Jk always appreciate your take on UCLA

Glad to contribute Bob.  

I posted links to a tweet of a Cori Close quote taken from a 2 April NY Times article on the dilemma facing college players who enter the WNBA draft, especially with remaining college eligibility, and the full NYT article on the Bruin Report Online board.

Thought some here might find it insightful.

The NYT article touches on the limited chances of a draftee making a roster, the potential upside and downside of WNBA expansion increasing those opportunities, and the impact of the earning potential NIL has on an athlete's decision to forego another year of eligibility to enter the draft.

Tweet: https://twitter.com/krisrhim1/status/1643686255132123158

Full NYT Article (behind a paywall): https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/02/sports/ncaabasketball/womens-basketball-caitlin-clark-angel-reese.html

RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - PVTree - 04-06-2023

Osborne returning next year with the Ruins

RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - stopandpop - 04-06-2023

Some interesting and intriguing thoughts from the questions.  Thanks!

Regarding Brink; yes- I think we're all hoping she will continue to work on both her mid-range game and get back her 3-point shot.  But here is one opportunity for improvement in 2023-2024.  Watching the games last season, I would count at least 3 and sometimes up to 6 or 7 times when we missed great opportunities for Brink to score in the block because of poor passes that moved Brink out of position; late passes when Brink was being double-teamed; no passes, even when Brink had sealed her defender and was calling for the ball, or when Brink had a clear path to the hoop and her teammate chose to shoot a 3-ball.

That's a minimum of an extra 6 points (scoring or getting fouled) and as many as an extra 14 points a game.  If you think about all the close games we won and the 6 games we lost, better and more timely passes into Brink when she is posting could make a brobdingnagian difference next season.

Your thoughts?

RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - BobK - 04-06-2023

Passes into the post are not always as easy as you believe. Always room for improvement yes but that’s true for any team. Ok not so from Clark into the post :)

RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - Spiny_Norman - 04-06-2023

(04-05-2023, 01:57 PM)stopandpop Wrote:  So, what about the challenges and opportunities our team will be facing in 2023-2024?

Lots of talk about guards and offense. But I think that defense and rebounding will be a big challenge for Stanford next season. In the latter part of the season, Stanford started to give up a lot of offensive rebounds to its opponents.

USC - 20 offensive rebounds
UCLA - 17 offensive rebounds
Colorado - 15 offensive rebounds
Mississippi - 20 offensive rebounds

This may have correlated to a time when Stanford was playing with 4 guards and one big. But that might be Stanford's preferred lineup next season as well since the roster only lists 4 forwards/centers - Brink, Betts, Iriafen and Demetre. Without Jones and Belibi, I think Stanford may be challenged to keep opponents (especially better opponents) from pushing them around on the boards next season. The only possible reinforcement might be Ogden.

A player like Alanna Smith would be a perfect fit for this team. Someone 6'3" who can defend a post player, rebound, shoot 3s at 35% (or better) and also score inside. If Demetre develops into someone like Smith, it could really make a big difference for this team.

RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - stopandpop - 04-06-2023

(04-06-2023, 11:51 AM)BobK Wrote:  Passes into the post are not always as easy as you believe.  Always room for improvement yes but that’s true for any team.  Ok not so from Clark into the post :)

Respectfully disagree.  In Kianna's senior year when Cam was a freshman, again and again Kianna would dribble up court and if there was not an opportunity for her to penetrate and possibly score, 5'8 Kianna could easily pass the ball into Brink.  Yet, 5'9 Anna Wilson (who I absolutely loved), would invariably reverse the ball when Brink had sealed her defender and was calling for the ball.  I watched a lot of Virginia Tech games in the past 2 seasons and 5'6 Georgia Amoore had no trouble getting the ball into their post, Liz Kitley.  Many other examples across the country where small guards effectively feed their posts. The difference?  Kianna would typically pass inside while she was in motion and there was some separation between she and her defender; same with Amoore.  Talana and to some degree Indya are dribbling but not moving with a defender in front of them and 90% of the time they reverse the ball.  Talana's sideway passes are admirable attempts which I began to see midway through non-conference, but they were too often telegraphed, making Cam move slightly away from her block position, or the passes come too late when single coverage became a double-team.  In their defense, they may hear Brink calling for the ball, but can't see her because they can't see over their defender.  Any passes into Brink now become difficult, but if they learned to pass while moving and creating a little separation, they might have an easier time seeing and getting more accurate and timely passes into her.

When so many small guards are successfully passing into their Bigs, you can't tell me this is more difficult than I think when I see it being done so many times at other schools, and here at Stanford not long ago.  It becomes difficult when the guards are standing while dribbling.

I admire Talana's ball-handling skills and Indya's ability to create her own shot on occasion.  I'm hoping to see better and more timely passing to Brink because of her elite skill levels to either score or get to the foul line where she has become deadly.

How many free throws in a row?

RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - BostonCard - 04-06-2023

Worth noting that Brink had an overall field goal percentage of 48%.  Even if good passing would have improved her field goal percentage a bit, 3 passes to Brink would not have translated to 6 more points (more like 3-4), and, we also don't know what happened in the alternative.  I don't know what our overall efficiency (without Brink) was, but figure we probably would have scored at least in 1/3 of those opportunities.

BC

RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - joemontes - 04-06-2023

I would love to see DEMETRE being used more as a stretch 4.

Her turn around midrange jumper is just a thing of beauty,
comparable to Grace BERGER's of Indiana, but was seldom used 
in favor of jacking up 3-pointers last season.  

I'd say put her in the high post, feeding BRINK or BETTS in the low post,
otherwise use that beautiful turnaround midrange jumper which is 
relatively difficult to block.

RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - 81alum - 04-07-2023

(04-06-2023, 08:21 PM)joemontes Wrote:  I would love to see DEMETRE being used more as a stretch 4.

Her turn around midrange jumper is just a thing of beauty,
comparable to Grace BERGER's of Indiana, but was seldom used 
in favor of jacking up 3-pointers last season.  

I'd say put her in the high post, feeding BRINK or BETTS in the low post,
otherwise use that beautiful turnaround midrange jumper which is 
relatively difficult to block.
Excellent advice.

Do you recall how well Demetre sets screens?  That would be another function at the high post that we need, provided she is good at it.

RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - crackpot - 04-07-2023

(04-06-2023, 04:30 PM)stopandpop Wrote:  
(04-06-2023, 11:51 AM)BobK Wrote:  Passes into the post are not always as easy as you believe.  Always room for improvement yes but that’s true for any team.  Ok not so from Clark into the post :)

Respectfully disagree.  In Kianna's senior year when Cam was a freshman, again and again Kianna would dribble up court and if there was not an opportunity for her to penetrate and possibly score, 5'8 Kianna could easily pass the ball into Brink.  Yet, 5'9 Anna Wilson (who I absolutely loved), would invariably reverse the ball when Brink had sealed her defender and was calling for the ball.  I watched a lot of Virginia Tech games in the past 2 seasons and 5'6 Georgia Amoore had no trouble getting the ball into their post, Liz Kitley.  Many other examples across the country where small guards effectively feed their posts. The difference?  Kianna would typically pass inside while she was in motion and there was some separation between she and her defender; same with Amoore.  Talana and to some degree Indya are dribbling but not moving with a defender in front of them and 90% of the time they reverse the ball.  Talana's sideway passes are admirable attempts which I began to see midway through non-conference, but they were too often telegraphed, making Cam move slightly away from her block position, or the passes come too late when single coverage became a double-team.  In their defense, they may hear Brink calling for the ball, but can't see her because they can't see over their defender.  Any passes into Brink now become difficult, but if they learned to pass while moving and creating a little separation, they might have an easier time seeing and getting more accurate and timely passes into her.

When so many small guards are successfully passing into their Bigs, you can't tell me this is more difficult than I think when I see it being done so many times at other schools, and here at Stanford not long ago.  It becomes difficult when the guards are standing while dribbling.

I admire Talana's ball-handling skills and Indya's ability to create her own shot on occasion.  I'm hoping to see better and more timely passing to Brink because of her elite skill levels to either score or get to the foul line where she has become deadly.

How many free throws in a row?

Per Tara's comments at the "banquet" last night, 48 in a row last season.

RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - AxeMan89 - 04-07-2023

Also noteworthy at the banquet last night - we will play Duke and Indiana at Maples next season. Duke seems up-and-coming and obviously Indiana has been really strong. Not sure who they return for 2023-2024.

Baez87 - Baez87 - 04-07-2023

Noticeable absentees at the Annual Awards Banquet last night were Haley, Jzaniya, and a banquet…

RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - CompSci87 - 04-07-2023

Unnoticeable absentee was me, out with COVID. First one I've missed in years. So I'm eager to hear anything interesting anyone learned.

RE: Baez87 - crackpot - 04-07-2023

(04-07-2023, 09:12 AM)Baez87 Wrote:  Noticeable absentees at the Annual Awards Banquet last night were Haley, Jzaniya, and a banquet…

Haley in NYC.

Jzaniya ill.

And--to a person--all of the nice fans with whom I spoke were extremely dissappointed in the lack of a meal. Heck, it was supposed to be desserts but even that was sparse. Here's a cookie to enjoy while you chat with fellow fans. Okay, sit down because Tara is going to speak.  No time to talk to the players or your fellow fans over a meal. Highlight reel was very different than typical, but very nice. I hope they post it. Senior speeches were very short. See you next year!