Shaw on the hot seat? - Printable Version
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RE: Shaw on the hot seat? - lex24 - 10-01-2022
(10-01-2022, 11:00 AM)msqueri Wrote:(10-01-2022, 09:19 AM)lex24 Wrote: Let’s assume Shaw is out. Who replaces him? It’s not a particularly attractive job. Particularly with no Admin support. They won’t get a rising stat coordinator. Too high a failure potential. My guess is they would be looking at an FCS guy. Worked last time…..
Unless and until they have Admin support, they will fail. With or without Shaw.
It’s one of the 40 most attractive jobs in college football. At most pessimistic top 65. There are some Power Five coaches who would take it, almost every Group of Five or FCS head coach, and all but the 5-10 hottest coordinators. There’d be plenty of a pool. At Shaw’s salary we could easily get a star.
Bryan Harsin, Lance Leipold, Chris Klieman, Troy Taylor, Brent Brennan - all likely in our ballpark, but certainly a majority of them would be. Just by way of example.
I think you are overstating the attractiveness. Yes, moneys good. Chance of winning not so much. Not without Administrative support. Tough enough back in the day. With the new landscape, tougher still. I’d want some assurance that portal is not a one way door. Also be nice if there was an indication of a NIL pool. Tough to compete when your under different rules.
A young hot shot coordinator has options. I suspect an FCS coach or perhaps a non Power 5 coach such as Brennan is more likely. Or maybe a long time coordinator that hasn’t had an HC opportunity. Hmmmm, who does that sound like…. :)
RE: Shaw on the hot seat? - cardcrimson - 10-01-2022
(10-01-2022, 04:38 PM)lex24 Wrote: Or maybe a long time coordinator that hasn’t had an HC opportunity. Hmmmm, who does that sound like…. :)
Sounds like Tavita. . . .
RE: Shaw on the hot seat? - msqueri - 10-01-2022
Shaw has been so bad I’d rather have Tavita. No exaggeration. But I do think we can do better.
RE: Shaw on the hot seat? - needle - 10-01-2022
It would be interesting to see an “old timer” like Willie Fritz or a young guy like Mike Kafka. I think Stanford would not sell itself to people with options.
RE: Shaw on the hot seat? - Mick - 10-01-2022
(09-30-2022, 09:23 PM)winflop Wrote:(09-30-2022, 06:22 PM)StanfordMatt Wrote:(09-30-2022, 04:37 PM)Goose Wrote:(09-30-2022, 04:13 PM)StanfordMatt Wrote: There are others on this board who understand the innerworkings of Stanford better than me, but I feel fairly confident that I understand them better than some writer from DraftKings or Fan Nation. I would be shocked if there is any serious internal momentum towards firing Shaw. I sense it would take several more years of abject futility before it was even a remote possibility.I have virtually no insight or understanding of the innerworkings of Stanford. However, I am willing to bet that Shaw himself has no stomach for 2 and 3 win seasons. I obviously don't know what his threshold is, but IMHO he is approaching it. If the OL doesn't improve after him going through several OL coaches, I expect him to decide "it can be done" and resign. Maybe at the end of this year and certainly at the end of next year if things get no better. He is a proud man and losing is eroding his "legacy". He doesn't need the money. Just my opinion.
I’m curious what you’ve seen that indicates Shaw is close to reaching his breaking point? He kicked it into cruise control years ago (long before NIL and the transfer portal). You can see it from our effort on the recruiting trail. He’s going to cash those $9 million checks as long as he can. Throw in the fact that he’s incredibly stubborn and I don’t see him admitting that things have reached the point of no return. Complacency and stubbornness are a lethal combination.
Enough about the $9M paychecks that's completely inaccurate. As for him admitting things, he's not going to do that publicly. He's not stupid, and he does have pride. I hope he does resign after this season, but I think the chances of that happening are even lower than Muir growing a spine and firing him.
I hope that the powers that be had a discussion with Muir six months to a year ago about the football program's inexorable downward progress and secured commitments from Muir that steps would be taken as a contingency plan. Because the "Break Glass in Case of Emergency" is really ready right about now.
RE: Shaw on the hot seat? - Goose - 10-01-2022
(10-01-2022, 04:06 PM)gailtate Wrote:You sound like a poster on Bear Insider. As is often pointed out there, Taylor is a Sacramento (Rancho Cordova) guy. He is their Shaw. His coaching career in the PAC-12 was not a success. He spent time at Cal and Utah as an assistant. He was successful as the OC of Eastern Washington. He is doing well at Sac State. As they point out on the Cal board, it isn't obvious he knows how to coach in the PAC-12. He has also indicated he has no interest in leaving Sac State, that going there was going "home". Doesn't sound like he would be very interested to me.(10-01-2022, 02:13 PM)Goose Wrote:(10-01-2022, 11:17 AM)gailtate Wrote: Brennan, a UCLA alum, is a definite maybe, Taylor, I don't know. He's worshipped at SacState, yes.He wasn't worshiped at Utah when he was OC for a year.
19-5 since arrival at SacState, reg. season. 0-2 post-season. Beat Colorado St. last week, 41-10. Now 3-0. Playing Cal Poly later today.
RE: Shaw on the hot seat? - lex24 - 10-01-2022
(10-01-2022, 04:42 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:(10-01-2022, 04:38 PM)lex24 Wrote: Or maybe a long time coordinator that hasn’t had an HC opportunity. Hmmmm, who does that sound like…. :)
Sounds like Tavita. . . .
I was thinking historically….
(10-01-2022, 05:20 PM)Goose Wrote:(10-01-2022, 04:06 PM)gailtate Wrote:You sound like a poster on Bear Insider. As is often pointed out there, Taylor is a Sacramento (Rancho Cordova) guy. He is their Shaw. His coaching career in the PAC-12 was not a success. He spent time at Cal and Utah as an assistant. He was successful as the OC of Eastern Washington. He is doing well at Sac State. As they point out on the Cal board, it isn't obvious he knows how to coach in the PAC-12. He has also indicated he has no interest in leaving Sac State, that going there was going "home". Doesn't sound like he would be very interested to me.(10-01-2022, 02:13 PM)Goose Wrote:(10-01-2022, 11:17 AM)gailtate Wrote: Brennan, a UCLA alum, is a definite maybe, Taylor, I don't know. He's worshipped at SacState, yes.He wasn't worshiped at Utah when he was OC for a year.
19-5 since arrival at SacState, reg. season. 0-2 post-season. Beat Colorado St. last week, 41-10. Now 3-0. Playing Cal Poly later today.
I don’t believe him. Unless he is that rare animal - a coach without ambition, I can’t believe he’d stay at Sac State if offered. And if he was offered and turned it down - that would be an indication that the program is in even worse shape than even the most pessimistic on this Board think…..
RE: Shaw on the hot seat? - gocard14 - 10-01-2022
One thing I haven’t seen described as an option: Shaw stays on but steps back into more of a “program manager” role.
Shaw takes. a paycut. Cleans house on the staff. Uses the extra money to hire up and coming O and D coordinators and gives them the keys. It’s a model that worked for Penn St with Paterno (football wise at least) and Florida st with Bowden.
RE: Shaw on the hot seat? - Goose - 10-01-2022
(10-01-2022, 08:23 PM)gocard14 Wrote: One thing I haven’t seen described as an option: Shaw stays on but steps back into more of a “program manager” role.I think the reason that isn't discussed is that nobody believes Shaw would ever accept such a role. We could all be wrong, but that is my read of him at least.
Shaw takes. a paycut. Cleans house on the staff. Uses the extra money to hire up and coming O and D coordinators and gives them the keys. It’s a model that worked for Penn St with Paterno (football wise at least) and Florida st with Bowden.
RE: Shaw on the hot seat? - Jamesy - 10-01-2022
(10-01-2022, 08:38 PM)Goose Wrote:(10-01-2022, 08:23 PM)gocard14 Wrote: One thing I haven’t seen described as an option: Shaw stays on but steps back into more of a “program manager” role.I think the reason that isn't discussed is that nobody believes Shaw would ever accept such a role. We could all be wrong, but that is my read of him at least.
Shaw takes. a paycut. Cleans house on the staff. Uses the extra money to hire up and coming O and D coordinators and gives them the keys. It’s a model that worked for Penn St with Paterno (football wise at least) and Florida st with Bowden.
I agree with that read. It's why a yes-man like Tavita has been the "offensive coordinator".
RE: Shaw on the hot seat? - Maple Leaf - 10-01-2022
Wonder who Muir has on his short list? That assumes he has a short list other than a short list of Olympic sports he wants to cut.
Gee how is Condi Rice feeling about this state of affairs? Or are Broncos occupy here football time?
RE: Shaw on the hot seat? - newguy - 10-01-2022
(10-01-2022, 04:51 PM)needle Wrote: It would be interesting to see an “old timer” like Willie Fritz or a young guy like Mike Kafka.at this point, i think having a head coach named Kafka would be entirely appropriate.
RE: Shaw on the hot seat? - winflop - 10-01-2022
(10-01-2022, 08:23 PM)gocard14 Wrote: One thing I haven’t seen described as an option: Shaw stays on but steps back into more of a “program manager” role.
Shaw takes. a paycut. Cleans house on the staff. Uses the extra money to hire up and coming O and D coordinators and gives them the keys. It’s a model that worked for Penn St with Paterno (football wise at least) and Florida st with Bowden.
That was an acceptable option after last season or earlier. It is no longer. He simply needs to go. He just sucks.
RE: Shaw on the hot seat? - Phogge - 10-02-2022
Troy Taylor... Folsom.
Ari Patu... Folsom.
The kid Mack they are recruiting... Folsom.
Just sayin...........
Don’t make the same mistake they did a couple of times with Dowhower and Wiggin when Jim Sochor was passed over. But he was a Gator and as a SFSU guy he wasn’t socially acceptable at an “Elite” university.
BUT Ralston was a Cal guy and so is Taylor.
Would he come? I wouldn’t.
RE: Shaw on the hot seat? - CardinalLover413 - 10-02-2022
We could try and swoop Bobby Petrino. High risk, high reward kind of move. Although I don't really think he fits Stanford at all.
RE: Shaw on the hot seat? - TRD - 10-02-2022
(09-30-2022, 10:33 PM)Phogge Wrote: If 2-10 or something close happens how many people will really care if the administration doesn’t. Never thought I would get to that point after 66 years but nothing is forever except diamonds.
Buddy Teevans ring a bell?
Does anyone wonder if Stanford will have a football program in 10 years from now? CTE, the power 5, UKLA and U$C exodus, NIL, ... It just doesn't seem like what it once was and I do wonder where football fits in at Stanford.
I'm a brobdingnagian football fan since I was a kid, and our Harbaugh/early Shaw run was a lot of fun but as things change quickly I wonder whether football at Stanford will make sense in the future.
RE: Shaw on the hot seat? - ADPinWDC - 10-02-2022
(10-01-2022, 11:00 AM)msqueri Wrote:(10-01-2022, 09:19 AM)lex24 Wrote: Let’s assume Shaw is out. Who replaces him? It’s not a particularly attractive job. Particularly with no Admin support. They won’t get a rising stat coordinator. Too high a failure potential. My guess is they would be looking at an FCS guy. Worked last time…..
Unless and until they have Admin support, they will fail. With or without Shaw.
It’s one of the 40 most attractive jobs in college football. At most pessimistic top 65. There are some Power Five coaches who would take it, almost every Group of Five or FCS head coach, and all but the 5-10 hottest coordinators. There’d be plenty of a pool. At Shaw’s salary we could easily get a star.
Bryan Harsin, Lance Leipold, Chris Klieman, Troy Taylor, Brent Brennan - all likely in our ballpark, but certainly a majority of them would be. Just by way of example.
Let's take the uptick side of this debate on Shaw leaving
SUPPOSE... SUPPOSE, Shaw & Co (the whole staff save Alomar) HAVE ALREADY been told this year is it -- so they are going through the motions like Zombies. Barely punching the clock while packing up.
Then,
1) Go get Dave Clawson, ACC Coach of the Year, 2021 at Wake Forest, making just $3.6M at a nice school (5700 undergrads) with $1.3B in Endowment.
Stanford's endowment tops $37B.
2) Consider bringing back Derek Mason (aka our "Duck Whisperer", 2010-2013), now DefCo at OKST earning just $1.1M after being fired from Vandy, the worst perch in the SEC.
3) Wild Card: Bring in Sir Dr of Defense Vic Fangio, as a "Consulting Wizard" who turned us around in 2010 with the 3-4 and Cover Schemes.
Just write a check. He is taking off 2022, after being tossed by the Broncos.
I don't think he would take the Coaching Job.
With Derek Mason in the mix, he would ascent to guidance by Eminence Fangio (Mason's mentor)
Article: Fangio taking a "Year Out" for 2022
https://theathletic.com/3311028/2022/05/24/vic-fangio-defense-analysis/
RE: Shaw on the hot seat? - MarinCard - 10-02-2022
Surprised our old friend Mike Blomgren’s name hasn’t arisen yet. The heart and soul of this program during its highs has started with great line play. Blomgren was not only our best OC but the O line coach who developed those guys. Now he’s got Rice (Rice!) looking far better than they have at any time in my memory. If he can get to a winning season there this year and Shaw were to step away, I'd keep my eyes on him. He also understands all the pluses and minuses, the idiosyncrasies of the institution in a way only a few other potential candidates (Mase comes to mind) could.
Whoever would come in needs to radically revamp the strength and conditioning program, too. The injury pile-up in the post-Turley era has been astounding.
RE: Shaw on the hot seat? - slide - 10-02-2022
(10-01-2022, 11:00 AM)msqueri Wrote: It’s one of the 40 most attractive jobs in college football. At most pessimistic top 65. There are some Power Five coaches who would take it, almost every Group of Five or FCS head coach, and all but the 5-10 hottest coordinators. There’d be plenty of a pool. At Shaw’s salary we could easily get a star.
Bryan Harsin, Lance Leipold, Chris Klieman, Troy Taylor, Brent Brennan - all likely in our ballpark, but certainly a majority of them would be. Just by way of example.
Auburn fans would pay us to take Harsin. his days on the Plains are limited.
RE: Shaw on the hot seat? - GK3 - 10-02-2022
(10-02-2022, 08:18 AM)slide Wrote:(10-01-2022, 11:00 AM)msqueri Wrote: It’s one of the 40 most attractive jobs in college football. At most pessimistic top 65. There are some Power Five coaches who would take it, almost every Group of Five or FCS head coach, and all but the 5-10 hottest coordinators. There’d be plenty of a pool. At Shaw’s salary we could easily get a star.
Bryan Harsin, Lance Leipold, Chris Klieman, Troy Taylor, Brent Brennan - all likely in our ballpark, but certainly a majority of them would be. Just by way of example.
Auburn fans would pay us to take Harsin. his days on the Plains are limited.
Does everyone think that Muir has the power to actually fire Shaw? My feeling has been Shaw has more clout that Muir. I also think we are beating a dead horse as I don't think MTL really cares whether we have a football team. While we might be attractive for a hotshot up and coming coach I think success is a fleeting thing under today's rules. The Portal and NIL have made a slippery slope almost vertical. We are going to attract a few really good players but never enough to consistently be in the top 20. Plus guys who red shirt are seldom going to be around for their fourth season of eligibility. It will happen, but not often. In the past we were a stop for some great young coaches but they never stayed around. We may well return to that status.