Wait 'til this winter - Printable Version
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RE: Wait 'til this winter - treetop11 - 04-05-2021
(04-05-2021, 07:57 PM)BostonCard Wrote: The player with primary ball handling duty doesn’t have to be the same person guarding the opponent’s point guard. When Nicole Powell played point forward for us, we still had guards playing defense on the opponent’s point guard.
You could imagine a situation where Jones brings the ball up, but a smaller guard defends the opponent’s point guard.
BC
Actually Jones brought the ball up a good deal of the 2nd half in the NC game vs UA
RE: Wait 'til this winter - BobK - 04-06-2021
The point guard position involves setting up the play. Anyone can bring the ball up the court. I know we all know that
RE: Wait 'til this winter - TheRicker - 04-06-2021
Chuckle
RE: Wait 'til this winter - Nan3cy - 04-06-2021
(04-06-2021, 08:28 AM)BobK Wrote: The point guard position involves setting up the play. Anyone can bring the ball up the court. I know we all know that
Which is why Stanford never has any trouble with a full-court press?
RE: Wait 'til this winter - BobK - 04-06-2021
So what trouble did Stanford have in the tournament? As in none ? Must be a reason :)
RE: Wait 'til this winter - Nan3cy - 04-06-2021
Seems to me there have been issues in the past, if not this year — I’m just suspicious of something that “anyone can do.”
RE: Wait 'til this winter - BostonCard - 04-06-2021
Arizona applied moderate pressure and we had 21 turnovers, and that's with an accomplished point guard and three potential ballhandlers. I wonder what would have happened had they tried to do a full court press.
Next year, if I am an opposing coach, I would try to see if I can force Stanford into some turnovers and easy points with full court pressure. I expect that next year we will have an excellent defense and a very good half-court offense with weapons in at least 4 out of the 5 positions (maybe even 5/5 if you have a lineup that goes Jump, Hull, Jones, Prechtel, and Brink with Jones as the ballhandler), but unproven ballhandling. So, your best bet is to disrupt Stanford's ability to get it's half-court offense set and try to score in transition off turnovers. It almost worked for Arizona, and they didn't even do a full-court press.
BC
RE: Wait 'til this winter - Maple Leaf - 04-06-2021
(04-06-2021, 12:00 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Arizona applied moderate pressure and we had 21 turnovers, and that's with an accomplished point guard and three potential ballhandlers. I wonder what would have happened had they tried to do a full court press.
Next year, if I am an opposing coach, I would try to see if I can force Stanford into some turnovers and easy points with full court pressure. I expect that next year we will have an excellent defense and a very good half-court offense with weapons in at least 4 out of the 5 positions (maybe even 5/5 if you have a lineup that goes Jump, Hull, Jones, Prechtel, and Brink with Jones as the ballhandler), but unproven ballhandling. So, your best bet is to disrupt Stanford's ability to get it's half-court offense set and try to score in transition off turnovers. It almost worked for Arizona, and they didn't even do a full-court press.
BC
Zona tried out the full court press on Stanford during the second regular season game with not much success IIRC, only delaying Stanford from getting into their offense. If you run a full course press for an extensive length of time it will "fatigue" your defense, so if you do press you need to generate points to off set what may happen to regular defense and to some extent your offense, some programs have sufficient depth and physical talent at the guard/sf positions to be successful.
RE: Wait 'til this winter - pefloresjr - 04-06-2021
Most of our turnovers this year seemed to be the result of intercepted/disrupted passes in the half court offense or ball handling while dribbling in the offensive end of the court. When teams pressed, we generally broke it pretty easily and even scored some transition type baskets because the full defense wasn't set up. I think that our offense relies on a lot of reads and options of whether to shoot or pass to another player depending on what the defense does. That creates a lot of passes to players in a good position to score but also in a lot of turnovers when that option seemed to be available but the passing lane gets disrupted. When teams are going all out in trying to disrupt every pass, even the basic perimeter passes that are usually easy, I think we need players who can create on their own a little more. Carrington was great at that and Kiana is also generally really good. (End of clock situations were somewhat inexplicably a too frequent exception to this.)
Our three point shooters definitely need to keep working on improving their ability to drive past aggressive perimeter defense and make pull up mid range shots or take it to the hoop. Lexi did this a lot with only modest success going all the way to the hoop but good success in mid range shots. I think Lexi will keep improving in finishing at the rim. I keep thinking she should work on that all offseason in a car wash where she has to fight through all the spinning pads and rollers! If she can do that, she can score through those aggressive defenses. More seriously, I think she needs to practice going up against contact in a way that allows her to score or emphasizes the fact that she was fouled. Jump showed increased ability to do move and shoot the mid range shot until the late stages of the tournament when she seemed to lack the confidence. I think simply improving our ability to do that will open up our three point shooting and the rest of the offense. Teams are working hard to disrupt what we like to do just as we do to them and if we're not improving and adapting, we're getting worse. I'm not worried about teams full court pressing us. I feel good about the talent we have and hope that if the players keep improving their games, we will be a top level contender. I don't think Wilson is going to come back for her third senior night but if she stays, I feel great about the ability of our other guards to improve and contribute hopefully with fewer turnovers next year.
Cheers,
Pete F.
RE: Wait 'til this winter - BillBradley - 04-06-2021
We just won a national championship with fill-in point guards and we might end up there next year too. Tara will do that same next year - put the lineup and rotation in place that gives the team the best chance of winning. IMO, here are the ladies' natural positions:
Ki - Combo, but more of a 2 IMO. She's a scorer but had to assume the point guard spot, bringing the ball up, calling plays, and then creating her own shots. If we would have had a natural 1, Ki would have slid to the 2 where she could have come off screens and attacked from the wing. She played the 1 because she was a vocal senior leader and it was our best option. When she was a soph, Marta played the 1 and she played the 2.
Anna - 2. If she were a 1 she would have brought the ball up all season and Ki would have played the 2. She isn't very vocal - to be a point guard, you need to have a voice. Even though she has good ball handling skills, I think Tara sees her as a 2.
Hanna - 2. Obvious - pure shooting guard.
Haley - 4, but perhaps 3 if she continues to shoot the 3. She also assumed time at the 1 when Ki was struggling or needed a break.
Lexie/Lacie - 3. Lacie has played some 1 and could possible slide over, but it's not her natural position.
Jenna and Jana - 1.
The question is can either Jenna or Jana bring enough to the table to start vs having one of the other players move over away from their natural spot? I really hope so, because I'm a big fan of players in their natural spots. Haley is sooo much better at the 4 for example. If Jana or Jenna don't get the reigns, I would guess Lacie would slide to the 1, even if Anna returns.
RE: Wait 'til this winter - BobK - 04-06-2021
Lacie was a point guard in HS for a great team. I don’t remember her travel position.
RE: Wait 'til this winter - Maple Leaf - 04-06-2021
The player development and overall team development was hampered by the pandemic especially with the restrictions put in place for Santa Clara County compared to what other teams faced. Hopefully with a more normal off season and pre-season the growth and development will be greater. This of course applies to all the high school and college teams located in SC County.
RE: Wait 'til this winter - bbm233 - 04-06-2021
My concern is that we won't have anybody on the team next year who can initiate offense under intense pressure from a top flight defender. I don't see anybody with that kind of handle, and I see guards at Louisville, Baylor and S Carolina who will bring that (after Aari is gone, there's nobody in the Pac 12 who comes close to that intensity). I am also concerned, but less so, that we don't have anybody who can stay in front of those same guards when we are on defense, although Lexie did a pretty good job on Cooke when she was finally given a chance. I think we will be awesome in the front court, but do we have the players to get them the ball?
P.S. this was even a problem this year, but Ki was just good enough to get us over the top. We would have lost the last three games without her.
RE: Wait 'til this winter - martyup - 04-06-2021
It's a long way to next March. Things will change. Enjoy the ride.
RE: Wait 'til this winter - CompSci87 - 04-06-2021
(04-06-2021, 10:47 AM)Nan3cy Wrote: Seems to me there have been issues in the past, if not this year — I’m just suspicious of something that “anyone can do.”
I think Bob is just trying to say that the same person doesn't have to do all the traditional point guard things. One player with a good handle might dribble the ball up the court while another calls and/or initiates the play, etc.
I do think we need talented small guard(s) on the court to match up with other teams, both for offensive and defensive reasons. For instance, a smaller player tends to have an advantage when trying to disrupt a taller player's higher dribble.
RE: Wait 'til this winter - martyup - 04-06-2021
(04-06-2021, 03:16 PM)CompSci87 Wrote:(04-06-2021, 10:47 AM)Nan3cy Wrote: Seems to me there have been issues in the past, if not this year — I’m just suspicious of something that “anyone can do.”
For instance, a smaller player tends to have an advantage when trying to disrupt a taller player's higher dribble.
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(04-06-2021, 08:28 AM)BobK Wrote: The point guard position involves setting up the play. Anyone can bring the ball up the court. I know we all know that
![[Image: ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia...f=1&nofb=1]](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F3w3BN4DiT6UCI%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1)
RE: Wait 'til this winter - BostonCard - 04-06-2021
It might be better to divide the jobs of a point guard.
* They need to be quick enough to stay in front of an elite point guard on defense. I think Anna Wilson would fit the bill, if she stayed. The Hulls are also capable of this, and what they lack in quickness, they make up for in length which makes it harder for the opposing guard to get a shot off cleanly.
* They need to have a strong enough handle to be able to bring the ball up against a strong on-ball defender. I think here we have a lot of candidates, but no clear front runner.
* They need to be able to pass the ball to open players. In our Princeton offense, I think that's less of a concern, because all five positions need to be able to pass the ball to open players. Indeed, if you look at assists, Williams is the teams' leader, but only had 101 out of a total of 543 assists (18.6%).
* They need to be able to create their own shot when everything else breaks down, or dribble drive and kick out to an open shooter. Again, that is something that several of our guards/wings can do, so in theory, we don't need our point guard to be "the one" to be given the ball to make her own shot, and our offense is generally not dependent on individual players creating for themselves or others from an isolation play (we do give and go or drive off a screen).
As noted, even Kiana was not a "true" point guard, and it worked just fine for us. I'm confident that given what we have (especially if Wilson comes back, but even if she doesn't) that Tara will cobble together a set of players that will both effectively defend the opponent's point guard and will be able to bring up the ball and "run" our offense. We may still be susceptible to turnovers as we were this year, but every team has a weakness.
BC
RE: Wait 'til this winter - BillBradley - 04-07-2021
(04-06-2021, 02:21 PM)bbm233 Wrote: My concern is that we won't have anybody on the team next year who can initiate offense under intense pressure from a top flight defender. I don't see anybody with that kind of handle, and I see guards at Louisville, Baylor and S Carolina who will bring that (after Aari is gone, there's nobody in the Pac 12 who comes close to that intensity). I am also concerned, but less so, that we don't have anybody who can stay in front of those same guards when we are on defense, although Lexie did a pretty good job on Cooke when she was finally given a chance. I think we will be awesome in the front court, but do we have the players to get them the ball?
P.S. this was even a problem this year, but Ki was just good enough to get us over the top. We would have lost the last three games without her.
Yep, that's a really good observation. The P12 teams next year don't have guards like that, and they sure caused us issues in the tourney on both sides of the ball. I could see a scenario where we are ranked highly all year, do well in the P12, but hit this stumbling block in the tourney. Neither Jana nor Jenna have that type of quickness. Lacie might do better against quickness in that she has great speed and is big/strong enough that she won't get knocked off the ball too easily.
RE: Wait 'til this winter - treetop11 - 04-07-2021
My biggest concern is how they find enough minutes for the many talented players.
RE: Wait 'til this winter - Hulk01 - 04-07-2021
(04-07-2021, 12:39 AM)treetop11 Wrote: My biggest concern is how they find enough minutes for the many talented players.
A hint of Demetre's athleticism: despite being 6'2", she frequently guards opponents' point guards.
Each of these four incoming recruits can run.