Pac-12 Football is coming back

Pac-12 Football is coming back - Printable Version

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RE: Pac-12 Football is coming back - OutsiderFan - 09-20-2020

Wow. No school has ever been faced with greater negative recruiting material to use against itself than Stanford, with this Bootleg reporting.

"How can you choose Stanford? The school is strongly considering dropping out of the Pac-12 and being more like an Ivy League school."

Yeah, don't expect the 2022 class to be any better than 2021. We really might be seeing the end of Stanford Football as a national program on the highest level. And it won't have anything to do with David Shaw :)

RE: Pac-12 Football is coming back - JustAnotherFan - 09-20-2020

(09-20-2020, 06:12 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:
(09-20-2020, 05:28 AM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:
(09-19-2020, 02:29 PM)fullmetal Wrote: Fine by me. Stanford needs all the help they can get :)

Yeah, and when Stanford finishes with a season record of 4-3 thanks to wins over Washington State, Arizona, Cal, and Oregon State (losses to UCLA, Washington, and USC, with all the other games cancelled due to positive Covid-19 tests) people will sing Shaw's praises as a winning coach again.

Why would you think Stanford will beat Cal this year?

My bad. You're right. We will be 3-4. But people will still defend Shaw.

RE: Pac-12 Football is coming back - teejers1 - 09-20-2020

(09-20-2020, 09:08 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Wow. No school has ever been faced with greater negative recruiting material to use against itself than Stanford, with this Bootleg reporting.

"How can you choose Stanford? The school is strongly considering dropping out of the Pac-12 and being more like an Ivy League school."

Yeah, don't expect the 2022 class to be any better than 2021. We really might be seeing the end of Stanford Football as a national program on the highest level. And it won't have anything to do with David Shaw :)

Scary how certain predictions (all of them) are coming into focus - Shaw the winningest coach in Stanford history and the one presiding over the demise of the program. Hell, even his use of "collapse was out of my control rationalization" is falling into place. BTW, the destruction of the program is almost entirely on Shaw.

RE: Pac-12 Football is coming back - BostonCard - 09-20-2020

I have made this very point in this thread...

Quote: Details about Stanford’s communication with both the league and its own players suggest that the Cardinal does have concerns about its athletes’ health in playing a football season, but perhaps the main tenet of Stanford’s objection is the matter of amateurism. The argument is that football players, as student-athletes, should not receive preferential treatment over other students – and in this case, very simply, be allowed on campus to participate in a university activity when other students are not.

RE: Pac-12 Football is coming back - Mick - 09-20-2020

(09-20-2020, 08:47 AM)Phogge Wrote: Good for Stanford. Drop to D3, let the players who want to transfer leave and focus on being an academic university. Dropping the Olympic Sports was the first step. Stanford will never go for the idea of paying the kids anyway.

And never threaten to leave the field. Just do it. The U will gain tremendous respect.

U. of Chicago, MIT & Stanford. Great D3 company.

RE: Pac-12 Football is coming back - Giants - 09-20-2020

(09-20-2020, 10:33 AM)teejers1 Wrote:
(09-20-2020, 09:08 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Wow. No school has ever been faced with greater negative recruiting material to use against itself than Stanford, with this Bootleg reporting.

"How can you choose Stanford? The school is strongly considering dropping out of the Pac-12 and being more like an Ivy League school."

Yeah, don't expect the 2022 class to be any better than 2021. We really might be seeing the end of Stanford Football as a national program on the highest level. And it won't have anything to do with David Shaw :)

Scary how certain predictions (all of them) are coming into focus - Shaw the winningest coach in Stanford history and the one presiding over the demise of the program. Hell, even his use of "collapse was out of my control rationalization" is falling into place. BTW, the destruction of the program is almost entirely on Shaw.

Hmmmm... Sounds almost identical to what happened to that school “up north“.

Winningest coach in school history - check
Presided over demise of program - check
Used the “collapse was out of my control” explanation of the demise - check

The biggest differences - Stanford won multiple Rose Bowls during Shaw’s tenure and, of course, the academics never fell off a cliff.

RE: Pac-12 Football is coming back - SamuelMcF - 09-20-2020

(09-20-2020, 07:17 AM)gailtate Wrote: Same question. As of right now, this looks like a loss in Berkeley. To a superior roster and a wilier coach.

Superior roster? No. By recruiting rankings our roster is way better. (For now. This will become further and further from the truth if recruiting remains as bad as it is this cycle.)

Wilier coach? Yes.

RE: Pac-12 Football is coming back - JustAnotherFan - 09-20-2020

(09-20-2020, 01:22 PM)Mick Wrote:
(09-20-2020, 08:47 AM)Phogge Wrote: Good for Stanford. Drop to D3, let the players who want to transfer leave and focus on being an academic university. Dropping the Olympic Sports was the first step. Stanford will never go for the idea of paying the kids anyway.

And never threaten to leave the field. Just do it. The U will gain tremendous respect.

U. of Chicago, MIT & Stanford. Great D3 company.

Is there any talk of FCS schools risking amateurism? Because simply dropping to FCS (I-AA) would still allow us to compete for the full 100 points in football (yes, two football teams get 100 points each fall for football), whereas the football points would be squandered if we went to Division III for football and stayed in Division I for all other sports (if that is even a possibility).

RE: Pac-12 Football is coming back - gailtate - 09-20-2020

(09-20-2020, 02:20 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote:
(09-20-2020, 07:17 AM)gailtate Wrote: Same question. As of right now, this looks like a loss in Berkeley. To a superior roster and a wilier coach.

Superior roster? No. By recruiting rankings our roster is way better. (For now. This will become further and further from the truth if recruiting remains as bad as it is this cycle.)

Wilier coach? Yes.

Hate to say but I see two coaches headed in opposite directions in their careers right now. Who'd-a-thunk-it.

RE: Pac-12 Football is coming back - GK3 - 09-20-2020

(09-20-2020, 02:20 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote:
(09-20-2020, 07:17 AM)gailtate Wrote: Same question. As of right now, this looks like a loss in Berkeley. To a superior roster and a wilier coach.

Superior roster? No. By recruiting rankings our roster is way better. (For now. This will become further and further from the truth if recruiting remains as bad as it is this cycle.)

Wilier coach? Yes.

We can blame Shaw for poor recruiting, unimaginative offenses, not hiring better coaches, or sitting on his laurels. But I do not think we can blame him for Covid 19, the restrictions as to whether players coming back for the fall can live on campus, the activism that seems to brewing on the team, the decisions of the NCAA, the Pac XII, or Larry Scott. From my perspective this plays into the hands of an administration which is NOT supportive of athletics.

RE: Pac-12 Football is coming back - needle - 09-20-2020

The whole issue of playing v. not playing really should be about safety (community and student) and, to a much lesser extent, what's best "overall" for the students who are participating in athletics.

So I'm opposed to the university using any other rationale to torpedo the season.

(My opinion: Statewide, it looks like the positivity rate has been trending downwards since mid-August and is now at about 3%. Based on that number and what I perceive to be benefits to students on the team should there be a season this fall, I'm tentatively in support of Stanford playing football before the end of the year.)

RE: Pac-12 Football is coming back - JustAnotherFan - 09-20-2020

(09-20-2020, 03:15 PM)GK3 Wrote: We can blame Shaw for poor recruiting, unimaginative offenses, not hiring better coaches, or sitting on his laurels.

And terrible clock management. Terrible, terrible, terrible clock management.

RE: Pac-12 Football is coming back - CardinalSagehen - 09-20-2020

Shaw, who has my full support, is the least of your worries. You won't have him to kick around by next season if things continue this way. He'll probably be off to the NFL or another program that is committed.

Assuming the 247 report is accurate, I can't believe Stanford is asking players to find their own off-campus housing by this Friday and pay for it themselves. Many of the players already reject the principle of amateurism and want to unionize. Now their full ride (room and board) is being taken away, if they want to play this season? Contrary to what other Pac-12 universities are doing? All in the service of a principle of amateurism that many of the football athletes already reject?

I'm not saying that Stanford is wrong - I really don't understand all the layers to the issue. But I observe that they're standing alone, on a matter of principle, and the result could crush the program as we know it.

Something will have to give by Thursday. It will probably get sorted out for now. But some hard feelings may not be forgotten amongst players and recruits...

RE: Pac-12 Football is coming back - Canalejas - 09-20-2020

(09-20-2020, 03:08 PM)JustAnotherFan Wrote: if we went to Division III for football and stayed in Division I for all other sports (if that is even a possibility).

I don't think that's a possibility.

What would be the best fit for us in FCS (formerly I-AA?) Either the WCC with Santa Clara, USF, and BYU or the Big West with UC Davis, Cal State Fullerton, and Hawai'i? Either way, to play FCS football we'd have to be an affiliate member of the Big Sky the way Davis and Cal Poly SLO are.

In D3 we'd either have to try independence (like UC Santa Cruz) or hope the SCIAC (Caltech, Occidental, the Claremont Colleges) wanted to take on a major outlier.

RE: Pac-12 Football is coming back - JustAnotherFan - 09-20-2020

(09-20-2020, 04:28 PM)CardinalSagehen Wrote: Shaw, who has my full support, is the least of your worries. You won't have him to kick around by next season if things continue this way. He'll probably be off to the NFL or another program that is committed.

Assuming the 247 report is accurate, I can't believe Stanford is asking players to find their own off-campus housing by this Friday and pay for it themselves. Many of the players already reject the principle of amateurism and want to unionize. Now their full ride (room and board) is being taken away, if they want to play this season? Contrary to what other Pac-12 universities are doing? All in the service of a principle of amateurism that many of the football athletes already reject?

I'm not saying that Stanford is wrong - I really don't understand all the layers to the issue. But I observe that they're standing alone, on a matter of principle, and the result could crush the program as we know it.

Something will have to give by Thursday. It will probably get sorted out for now. But some hard feelings may not be forgotten amongst players and recruits...

I think Stanford would be better off sitting it out and letting the other 11 play ball. They'll take Stanford back in the following fall.

RE: Pac-12 Football is coming back - SamuelMcF - 09-20-2020

(09-20-2020, 04:45 PM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:
(09-20-2020, 04:28 PM)CardinalSagehen Wrote: Shaw, who has my full support, is the least of your worries. You won't have him to kick around by next season if things continue this way. He'll probably be off to the NFL or another program that is committed.

Assuming the 247 report is accurate, I can't believe Stanford is asking players to find their own off-campus housing by this Friday and pay for it themselves. Many of the players already reject the principle of amateurism and want to unionize. Now their full ride (room and board) is being taken away, if they want to play this season? Contrary to what other Pac-12 universities are doing? All in the service of a principle of amateurism that many of the football athletes already reject?

I'm not saying that Stanford is wrong - I really don't understand all the layers to the issue. But I observe that they're standing alone, on a matter of principle, and the result could crush the program as we know it.

Something will have to give by Thursday. It will probably get sorted out for now. But some hard feelings may not be forgotten amongst players and recruits...

I think Stanford would be better off sitting it out and letting the other 11 play ball. They'll take Stanford back in the following fall.

There is some precedent here: Old Dominion is sitting out the season while the rest of Conference USA proceeds.

RE: Pac-12 Football is coming back - teejers1 - 09-20-2020

(09-20-2020, 04:28 PM)CardinalSagehen Wrote: Shaw, who has my full support, is the least of your worries. You won't have him to kick around by next season if things continue this way. He'll probably be off to the NFL or another program that is committed.

Are you being serious?
Any team that hires him as their HC is either way down on the pecking order (meaning no NFL team and no P5 team of consequence) or one that has completely abrogated its due diligence. I could see a program hiring him on condition that he hire independent coordinators and get the hell out of the way, because Shaw does have some good attributes you like in a HC. But he also has some glaring blind spots/weaknesses.

RE: Pac-12 Football is coming back - donkey687 - 09-20-2020

(09-20-2020, 04:28 PM)CardinalSagehen Wrote: Shaw, who has my full support, is the least of your worries. You won't have him to kick around by next season if things continue this way. He'll probably be off to the NFL or another program that is committed.

Assuming the 247 report is accurate, I can't believe Stanford is asking players to find their own off-campus housing by this Friday and pay for it themselves. Many of the players already reject the principle of amateurism and want to unionize. Now their full ride (room and board) is being taken away, if they want to play this season? Contrary to what other Pac-12 universities are doing? All in the service of a principle of amateurism that many of the football athletes already reject?

I'm not saying that Stanford is wrong - I really don't understand all the layers to the issue. But I observe that they're standing alone, on a matter of principle, and the result could crush the program as we know it.

Something will have to give by Thursday. It will probably get sorted out for now. But some hard feelings may not be forgotten amongst players and recruits...

I am with you. I don't believe that Stanford is asking players to pay for their own housing. That doesn't make sense to me. Has anyone heard that this is actually true? It seems like players would be outraged and revolting and tweeting about it if true.

RE: Pac-12 Football is coming back - Believer - 09-20-2020

(09-20-2020, 06:29 PM)donkey687 Wrote:
(09-20-2020, 04:28 PM)CardinalSagehen Wrote: Shaw, who has my full support, is the least of your worries. You won't have him to kick around by next season if things continue this way. He'll probably be off to the NFL or another program that is committed.

Assuming the 247 report is accurate, I can't believe Stanford is asking players to find their own off-campus housing by this Friday and pay for it themselves. Many of the players already reject the principle of amateurism and want to unionize. Now their full ride (room and board) is being taken away, if they want to play this season? Contrary to what other Pac-12 universities are doing? All in the service of a principle of amateurism that many of the football athletes already reject?

I'm not saying that Stanford is wrong - I really don't understand all the layers to the issue. But I observe that they're standing alone, on a matter of principle, and the result could crush the program as we know it.

Something will have to give by Thursday. It will probably get sorted out for now. But some hard feelings may not be forgotten amongst players and recruits...

I am with you. I don't believe that Stanford is asking players to pay for their own housing. That doesn't make sense to me. Has anyone heard that this is actually true? It seems like players would be outraged and revolting and tweeting about it if true.

Not true,,,,

RE: Pac-12 Football is coming back - cardcrimson - 09-20-2020

(09-20-2020, 05:37 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote: There is some precedent here: Old Dominion is sitting out the season while the rest of Conference USA proceeds.

Stanford University. The ODU of the West.

Has a nice ring to it, doesn't it.