Anti-mask crowd obliterated in one tweet - Printable Version
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RE: Anti-mask crowd obliterated in one tweet - 82 Card - 06-25-2020
(06-25-2020, 01:23 AM)Snorlax94 Wrote: Plus, a video of Florida being Florida...
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/06/24/mask-mandate-florida-anger-erupts-coronavirus-vpx.cnn
"Masks are killing people." Where do these people get this stuff? I doubt she came up with that on her own.
RE: Anti-mask crowd obliterated in one tweet - BostonCard - 06-25-2020
I have a quick stylistic request. Can we please avoid using words like "obliterated" or "destroyed" or "crushed" or other violent term when we are discussing ideas. The goal of a discussion is to persuade, not to destroy, and it has been a pet peeve of mine in social media to see such titles as "watch so-and-so destroy so-and-so", where typically each so-and-so represents a different political party. Seeking to "obliterate" your opponent, even if it is rhetorically, is just going to further political polarization, as it makes discussion of ideas a matter of existential survival.
BC
RE: Anti-mask crowd obliterated in one tweet - Genuine Realist - 06-25-2020
(06-25-2020, 10:43 AM)BostonCard Wrote: I have a quick stylistic request. Can we please avoid using words like "obliterated" or "destroyed" or "crushed" or other violent term when we are discussing ideas. The goal of a discussion is to persuade, not to destroy, and it has been a pet peeve of mine in social media to see such titles as "watch so-and-so destroy so-and-so", where typically each so-and-so represents a different political party. Seeking to "obliterate" your opponent, even if it is rhetorically, is just going to further political polarization, as it makes discussion of ideas a matter of existential survival.I believe mask wearing is essential (in indoor space, anyway), but I never buy into stupid. The Great Beast is usually wiser than American elites. What's happened is that the practice has become another battlefront in the ongoing cultural war. Most of that is attributable to You-Know-Who, but the MSM plays its inevitable role.
BC
The skepticism is exacerbated by real questions about whether the severity of the lockdown was justified, and the mixed messages at the outset. Health officials no more wear a mantle of infallibility in this society than any other class, and they may have damaged their credibility early on.
The best solution still seems to me to focus on proprietors with significant indoor space, insisting on compliance and doing spot checks, with fines and administrative sanctions. Criminal sanctions on individual offenders won't work. Obviously, Trump, Pence, and other public figures should set examples, but that's not going to happen.
RE: Anti-mask crowd obliterated in one tweet - magnus - 06-25-2020
(06-25-2020, 10:33 AM)BostonCard Wrote:(06-25-2020, 10:09 AM)dabigv13 Wrote: The message from very early should have been that masks help to prevent transmission and everyone should wear cloth masks because we don't have enough surgical masks for healthcare workers.
I think there was misplaced concern that the public buying masks would impact availability to HCWs. Availability still isn't good because of limited supply, but I think its clear now that the public is fine with cloth masks, if they're fine with masks at all.
The other concern was that people would use masks as an alternative for sheltering in place or that people would let their guard down out of a false sense of security with masks. But I agree with Lex that mixed messages were a problem, and I'm as guilty as anyone; I started out fairly skeptical about mask use but have come around as data has accumulated that they make a difference.
BC
The CDC basically assumed the American public was rash and stupid when it came to masks.
Along with the 2 reasons above that were used, the 3rd was, "people may be more likely to get infected because they'll touch their faces more with masks on". Give us some credit. Teach us how to wear masks properly (I think this is still needed given the non negligible amount of people wearing their masks askew). Use Disney characters if need be. =)
RE: lex24 - Farm93 - 06-25-2020
(06-25-2020, 09:43 AM)lex24 Wrote: Is there a composite of who isn’t wearing masks in OC? I think the assumption is it’s political. M6 guess is it’s more the young beach crowdWhen in public places they tend to be older than 40, but definitely younger than 70. They tend to be male and white.
I vividly recall situations where confident middle aged men apparently assumed government orders and company store policies didn't apply to them, but I am sure there are loads of other examples I am missing for other demographic groups.
Now, I should say, in the OC that same anti-mask demographic group I notice tends to own businesses or be in management roles in businesses. So they have the ability to influence the community spread in rather profound ways. There are loads of OC businesses with all types of employees back to work doing activities easily completed at home, but are now at work often in places without any real attempt to modify social distancing.
From there I am confident all of your typical social and cultural forces are in play. If your company owner or boss is not wearing a mask and thinks all of that stuff is overblown then that probably becomes the company culture.
FWIW - I more or less think the OC situation and even the CA situation will be OK in July and August because the weather is just too good and schools are out of session. However, get those young vectors-to-be back in school and look out. September, October and November could be awful because workers and offices will have become just complacent enough over the next 2 months to get hit really hard with a COVID outbreak that will come to the office through a parent with school age children.
RE: Anti-mask crowd obliterated in one tweet - burger - 06-25-2020
(06-25-2020, 02:36 PM)magnus Wrote:(06-25-2020, 10:33 AM)BostonCard Wrote:The CDC basically assumed the American public was rash and stupid when it came to masks.(06-25-2020, 10:09 AM)dabigv13 Wrote: The message from very early should have been that masks help to prevent transmission and everyone should wear cloth masks because we don't have enough surgical masks for healthcare workers.The other concern was that people would use masks as an alternative for sheltering in place or that people would let their guard down out of a false sense of security with masks. But I agree with Lex that mixed messages were a problem, and I'm as guilty as anyone; I started out fairly skeptical about mask use but have come around as data has accumulated that they make a difference.
I think there was misplaced concern that the public buying masks would impact availability to HCWs. Availability still isn't good because of limited supply, but I think its clear now that the public is fine with cloth masks, if they're fine with masks at all.
BC
Along with the 2 reasons above that were used, the 3rd was, "people may be more likely to get infected because they'll touch their faces more with masks on". Give us some credit. Teach us how to wear masks properly (I think this is still needed given the non negligible amount of people wearing their masks askew). Use Disney characters if need be. =)
Mask-wearing lessons or PSAs would be great. But I think we could do a lot better than that if we had a federal government that gave a crap about public health. How about free masks for everyone? We're 6+ months into this--shouldn't getting surgical masks or the like into the hands of every single American have been a goal of the feds from the start? I see people wearing single-layer bandanas or thin neck gaiters all the time. Those are better than nothing, but not much.
Models have shown that are two ways to make masks more effective in terms of reducing R: increase mask usage, or make the masks more effective. We could do both of those at the same time by mobilizing a big mask making and distribution system. This should've been happening from day 1. It's actually not too late to start this now because we're going to be living with this virus for at least another year, I bet.
RE: Anti-mask crowd obliterated in one tweet - BostonCard - 06-25-2020
There's an alternate universe out there that features "Make America Great Again", stylized US flags, and "Don't tread on me" masks. Who says irony is dead?
BC
lex24 - lex24 - 06-25-2020
Part of the problem may be that the virus was, in some ways, “oversold” at the outset. For example, Gov. Newsom stated on Mar 19 that California could have 25 Million cases in two months. I remember the Santa Clara county health director saying she thought everybody in the county could get the virus.
There have been so many studies. So many predictions. So much speculation, that some people, I think just tune it out and ignore it all.
Face masks should be an easy sell. And perhaps they might have been had they been pushed from day one. But when the messaging is mixed - not only from the Feds, but from the WHO, to states to counties to cities to “experts” it gets diluted. And ignored.
Someone here suggested the Feds supply masks. Why? Do you truly think people not wearing masks are people who can’t afford to wear masks? There’s no proof of that. They just don’t wanna wear them for one reason or another. So the feds go out purchase and delivers 300 million masks. And the same people who aren’t wearing masks still won’t wear masks. That in my opinion is a big waste of money.
But I like the idea of advertisements for masks. Bunch of people droning on about the importance of wearing masks is not gonna do much of anything. So use some creativity. Famous scenes with the punchline being the mask. Do you want an example easy - Meg Ryan in a restaurant doing her famous When Harry Met Sally Scene. Wearing a mask. The woman looks over and says I’m wearing what she’s wearing - give me a mask. A bunch of scenes from Ferris Bueller‘s Day off – except throw a mask on him in every scene. You get the point.
Throw in some sex appeal. Have a bunch of really good looking models walking down the runway all wearing masks. Make it cool. Make it fun. I think many are sick and tired on being lectured. Try a different approach
RE: lex24 - dabigv13 - 06-25-2020
(06-25-2020, 02:48 PM)Farm93 Wrote: From there I am confident all
FWIW - I more or less think the OC situation and even the CA situation will be OK in July and August because the weather is just too good and schools are out of session. However, get those young vectors-to-be back in school and look out. September, October and November could be awful because workers and offices will have become just complacent enough over the next 2 months to get hit really hard with a COVID outbreak that will come to the office through a parent with school age children.
The weather and schools being out is not stopping this thing now. Our ICU is full of 40 and 50 year olds who are getting this in the community. R is definitely above 1 right now in most parts of SoCal and absent significantly stricter measures or much more mask use and other cautions, that will continue to be the case. The population is >98% unexposed, we are dry tinder. If you need to get your haircut, I'd go real soon.
RE: lex24 - burger - 06-25-2020
(06-25-2020, 04:02 PM)lex24 Wrote: Someone here suggested the Feds supply masks. Why? Do you truly think people not wearing masks are people who can’t afford to wear masks? There’s no proof of that. They just don’t wanna wear them for one reason or another. So the feds go out purchase and delivers 300 million masks. And the same people who aren’t wearing masks still won’t wear masks. That in my opinion is a big waste of money.
That was me. Even if free masks don't result in more mask usage, if you replace the crappy cotton masks that millions of people are using with more effective surgical masks (or, even better, N95's assuming they are fit properly), you can potentially reduce the spread of the virus.
This study from a few years ago showed that viral illnesses were much more common in medical workers wearing cloth masks than those who wore surgical masks: https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577
This modelling study found that the key variable in mask effect on virus spread was the % of people using them times the effectiveness of the mask in blocking the virus. If you can't change the number of people who use masks, then we should do everything we can to make the masks more effective: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7186508/
You're entitled to your opinion, but the research says you're wrong.
And I disagree that free masks wouldn't make a difference in mask usage. If you combine a good PR campaign (seriously, why am I not seeing "wear a mask" PSAs every time I turn on the TV?) with easily available masks and good example setting by leaders (even Marco Rubio was admonishing people to wear masks this week), I think you would see a change. What's the worst that happens? Some US mask manufacturer gets to hire a bunch of unemployed people to make masks? Worrying about wasted money now is fiddling while Rome burns.
RE: Anti-mask crowd obliterated in one tweet - dabigv13 - 06-25-2020
+1
Personally, I wear a thin comfortable cloth mask when I'm outside for a walk and only rarely and briefly within 6 feet of anyone not in my household. When I'm in a public indoor space, I wear a surgical mask. Definitely a more effective filter than most cloth masks. Probably blocks more respiratory secretions as well.
I agree more public health ads about masks would be useful. Not sure how much uptake there will be from them amongst the mask-skeptical at this point though.
lex24 - lex24 - 06-25-2020
(06-25-2020, 05:10 PM)burger Wrote:(06-25-2020, 04:02 PM)lex24 Wrote: Someone here suggested the Feds supply masks. Why? Do you truly think people not wearing masks are people who can’t afford to wear masks? There’s no proof of that. They just don’t wanna wear them for one reason or another. So the feds go out purchase and delivers 300 million masks. And the same people who aren’t wearing masks still won’t wear masks. That in my opinion is a big waste of money.
That was me. Even if free masks don't result in more mask usage, if you replace the crappy cotton masks that millions of people are using with more effective surgical masks (or, even better, N95's assuming they are fit properly), you can potentially reduce the spread of the virus.
This study from a few years ago showed that viral illnesses were much more common in medical workers wearing cloth masks than those who wore surgical masks: https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577
This modelling study found that the key variable in mask effect on virus spread was the % of people using them times the effectiveness of the mask in blocking the virus. If you can't change the number of people who use masks, then we should do everything we can to make the masks more effective: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7186508/
You're entitled to your opinion, but the research says you're wrong.
And I disagree that free masks wouldn't make a difference in mask usage. If you combine a good PR campaign (seriously, why am I not seeing "wear a mask" PSAs every time I turn on the TV?) with easily available masks and good example setting by leaders (even Marco Rubio was admonishing people to wear masks this week), I think you would see a change. What's the worst that happens? Some US mask manufacturer gets to hire a bunch of unemployed people to make masks? Worrying about wasted money now is fiddling while Rome burns.
Gee, thanks for allowing me to be entitled to my opinion. As for the research. Wait a month. It may change again.
I’m not disputing that people should wear masks. They should. I do. As for a PR campaign I agree. But the Marco Rubios of the world droning on about wearing a mask, is not gonna change many minds. Any more than “just say no” changed minds Make it a cool thing to do. Then maybe you’ll see some who are are not wearing masks start to wear them. People respond to entertainers and athletes much more than they do politicians.
RE: lex24 - Goose - 06-25-2020
(06-25-2020, 05:30 PM)lex24 Wrote: People respond to entertainers and athletes much more than they do politicians.Why am I not encouraged by that idea =).
RE: Anti-mask crowd obliterated in one tweet - fullmetal - 06-25-2020
Actually, my state Republican Party is selling cardboard(?) masks with GOP slogans and designs. The overall shape and structure of the mask look pretty terrible, and cardboard cutouts for ears seem rather painful (seriously?).
RE: Anti-mask crowd obliterated in one tweet - OutsiderFan - 06-25-2020
Here is the solution:
Get Roger Goodell, Nick Saban, Dabo Swinney, Ed Orgeron, Mike Leach, Tom Herman, Jim Harbaugh, Brian Kelly, David Shaw, etc. to do a PSA.
You want Football this fall? Wear a mask. We will not be playing football games if the virus continues to spread. Wear a mask. Wash your hands. Practice safe distancing.
RE: Anti-mask crowd obliterated in one tweet - Goose - 06-25-2020
(06-25-2020, 07:27 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Here is the solution:
Get Roger Goodell, Nick Saban, Dabo Swinney, Ed Orgeron, Mike Leach, Tom Herman, Jim Harbaugh, Brian Kelly, David Shaw, etc. to do a PSA.
You want Football this fall? Wear a mask. We will not be playing football games if the virus continues to spread. Wear a mask. Wash your hands. Practice safe distancing.
This is a good idea. Why not do it? Maybe nobody pays attention, but maybe some will.
RE: Anti-mask crowd obliterated in one tweet - M T - 06-25-2020
Maybe we should start making our own suggestions of PR things (slogans, shirts, etc.)
1. Have a sexy young female in a sultry voice talk about "I got a new one, just to wear to the beach with you. It's small and thin, and oh, so colorful." You see her swinging a strap. "Want me to put it on for you?" Cut to a view of her in a swimsuit and matching mask. Perhaps to the strains of "Itsy bitsy yellow polka dot bikini" (but I think that's a bit too much).
2. From a view from the street, show a rough teenager or young adult, starting to leave his house (somewhere in SF). As he starts to step out the door (sans mask), he abruptly stops, draws back, and looks stunned and uncertain what to do. Dub the audio from "Dirty Harry" (off screen) as he stands there. "You have to ask yourself one question, 'Do I feel lucky?", and then the video of Clint "Well, do you, punk?". Back to the kid, who considers for a moment, and then slowly retrieves a mask from behind the door. [On second thought, this might be considered the wrong message currently.]
3. Big, tough guy talking as if to someone who looks up to him: Listen, I know you're not so dumb as to drive when buzzed, or run stop lights, or anything stupid like that. So, why aren't you wearing a mask? Not wearing masks contributes to the spread of COVID and its killing people more people in a month than die in traffic all year. Don't be stupid.
4. Father to offscreen son: Son, I'm sure you feel as uncomfortable about this as I do, but we need to have this talk. You're growing up and are out there doing things on your own. I know you think you won't get hurt or hurt someone else, but, hey, accidents happen. You already know the facts. Those little buggers can cause big problems. So, you're going to need protection. I've got a stack of these and you can take one whenever you might need one. And, if you want to get some on your own, the pharmacy carries them. <cut to a stack of masks>
4'. Similar idea as 4, but with Dr. Ruth narrating it.
5. A shot of an older person, all alone, on a ventilator, harsh light, with sounds of medical devices all around. Cut to a teenager home, lying in bed, sobbing to a friend on the phone, "I feel terrible. Gramps/Nana was always so nice to me. I thought a mask hid my face." Then a soft knock on the door, and the Mother opens the door, with Father behind her, both in masks and PPE(?). "Dear, we need to talk"
6. You can pray with a mask on. Without a mask, you need to pray.
7. God helps those that help themselves, with a picture of someone praying with a mask on.
8. 6 feet of separation now, or 6 feet of separation forever.
It would be good to see:
1) Various TV stations/networks ask users to submit PSAs for mask-wearing or other social distancing.
2) NFL/NBA/MLB/MLS offering seats to the next championship for the best such PSA submitted to them.
3) PSAs from popular franchises: Super heroes, Harry Potter (but that's got baggage right now), Allstate Mayhem commercial guy, popular shows like "America's Got Talent", pop musicians.
4) One of the video game companies release a remake of an older video game but where the characters all wear custom masks. (with some new stuff added, of course) The masks could be franchised.
RE: Anti-mask crowd obliterated in one tweet - OutsiderFan - 06-26-2020
M T, either you have worked in advertising or have the creativity for it. Well done in any case!
So we have cartoons, influential people making PSAs, and acted advertising all as a way to persuade mask wearing. Now who can coordinate making it happen?
My suggestion would be to start with the NFL because it has the most ability to influence the broadest spectrum of other enterprises and organizations, and it has an existential threat to its season staring it in the face, as the U.S. set a single day reported new infection record by topping 40,000 new cases on June 25.
RE: Anti-mask crowd obliterated in one tweet - burger - 06-26-2020
MT, these are fantastic! Except for this one.
(06-25-2020, 08:20 PM)M T Wrote: 3. Big, tough guy talking as if to someone who looks up to him: Listen, I know you're not so dumb as to drive when buzzed, or run stop lights, or anything stupid like that. So, why aren't you wearing a mask? Not wearing masks contributes to the spread of COVID and its killing people more people in a month than die in traffic all year. Don't be stupid.
I can only guess that you've never driven in California :)
RE: Anti-mask crowd obliterated in one tweet - OutsiderFan - 06-26-2020
Here's one person who could have some influence:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/Liz_Cheney/status/1276591702321647616[/tweet]