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Re: 2017 Starters.... - OutsiderFan - 01-03-2017

I don't see ILB as a weakness in 2017 at all.  Barton and Okereke are every down LBs, which makes them more legit starters than Palma (better vs. run) and Perez (better in pass coverage).  Not sure about Branch, but he should also be better just from experience in 2017.

OLB is a much greater issue for me.  Between Alfieri (5), Kalambayi (3.5) Toohill (2.5), and Tyler (1.5), they racked up 12.5 sacks.  Thomas and Phillips combined for 14 from the DL.  That's not good.  Stanford needs more production from outside pass rushers.  One again, I'll say I'm hopeful Curtis Robinson is that guy in 2017.  Stanford hasn't had a consistent outside pass rusher since Trent Murphy.  Even Chase Thomas production would be an improvement.

Re: 2017 Starters.... - washingtonismoney - 01-03-2017

the LBs, collectively, were a bit average in 2016. But greater experience gives me hope they'll improve in 2017.

Re: 2017 Starters.... - Goose - 01-03-2017

(01-03-2017, 08:11 AM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:I don't see ILB as a weakness in 2017 at all.  Barton and Okereke are every down LBs, which makes them more legit starters than Palma (better vs. run) and Perez (better in pass coverage).  Not sure about Branch, but he should also be better just from experience in 2017.

OLB is a much greater issue for me.  Between Alfieri (5), Kalambayi (3.5) Toohill (2.5), and Tyler (1.5), they racked up 12.5 sacks.  Thomas and Phillips combined for 14 from the DL.  That's not good.  Stanford needs more production from outside pass rushers.  One again, I'll say I'm hopeful Curtis Robinson is that guy in 2017.  Stanford hasn't had a consistent outside pass rusher since Trent Murphy.  Even Chase Thomas production would be an improvement.
The total number of sacks recorded this year is actually higher than last year, according to what I found on the net (http://www.cfbstats.com/2016/team/674/sack/index.html). It is actually the median for the last 9 years. So, while more is better, I am less concerned than I would be if we were at a low. While it is a fact that the OLBs didn't get a lot of sacks this year, how much of that was scheme and how much was lack of ability (although scheme may be driven by lack of ability)? With Thomas and Phillips playing, maybe we chose to drop 8 and rush 3 a lot? It seems so to me, but that is an impression, not a statistic. Also, holding the edge is especially important against spread teams. This may reduce blitzing even on third and fairly long.

Re: 2017 Starters.... - OutsiderFan - 01-03-2017

After gathering some more info and thinking about it a little deeper, I'm going to revise my projected starting OL and go with something a little more dramatic.  It seems like this might be the best possible unit:

RT: Devery Hamilton
RG: Casey Tucker
C: Jesse Burkett
LG: Nate Herbig
LT: Walker Little

Stanford needs better athletes at the tackle positions, and it seems to me Little and Hamilton could be the best athletes Stanford has to play OT in 2017.  Experience can't help with athletic edge rushers, and both Hall and Tucker struggle in that category.  But Tucker was the OT on a good 2015 offense, and if Fanaika doesn't nail down the starting RG job, why not move Tucker inside? 

My suggestion here is based on assuming KJ Costello wins the QB job in 2017.  If you watch his high school videos, he's a great pocket passer.  Give him protection and he has elite accuracy.  Costello also comes from a passing oriented offensive scheme.  He's comfortable in the pocket and going through progressions.  Pairing him with good pass protection will allow us to finally see Stanford get good production from the WRs and TEs.  Bryce Love may be a featured RB, but I suspect he'll be a lot more effective with Stanford having a potent passing game, and that is predicated on having good pass protection.

I didn't really know much about Walker Little until the last few days when I bothered to look into him.  Based on what I gather, he is probably a better prospect than Andrus Peat was.  The dude looks like the absolute prototype LT.  Devery Hamilton was suppose to be that guy, but there is no reason DH couldn't play RT.  It may seem scary having a True and RS Frosh being Stanford's starting OTs, with a RS Frosh QB, but if they are more talented than other available options, why not? 

Re: 2017 Starters.... - Durty Nelly - 01-03-2017

(01-03-2017, 03:32 PM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:After gathering some more info and thinking about it a little deeper, I'm going to revise my projected starting OL and go with something a little more dramatic.  It seems like this might be the best possible unit:

RT: Devery Hamilton
RG: Casey Tucker
C: Jesse Burkett
LG: Nate Herbig
LT: Walker Little

Stanford needs better athletes at the tackle positions, and it seems to me Little and Hamilton could be the best athletes Stanford has to play OT in 2017.  Experience can't help with athletic edge rushers, and both Hall and Tucker struggle in that category.  But Tucker was the OT on a good 2015 offense, and if Fanaika doesn't nail down the starting RG job, why not move Tucker inside? 

My suggestion here is based on assuming KJ Costello wins the QB job in 2017.  If you watch his high school videos, he's a great pocket passer.  Give him protection and he has elite accuracy.  Costello also comes from a passing oriented offensive scheme.  He's comfortable in the pocket and going through progressions.  Pairing him with good pass protection will allow us to finally see Stanford get good production from the WRs and TEs.  Bryce Love may be a featured RB, but I suspect he'll be a lot more effective with Stanford having a potent passing game, and that is predicated on having good pass protection.

I didn't really know much about Walker Little until the last few days when I bothered to look into him.  Based on what I gather, he is probably a better prospect than Andrus Peat was.  The dude looks like the absolute prototype LT.  Devery Hamilton was suppose to be that guy, but there is no reason DH couldn't play RT.  It may seem scary having a True and RS Frosh being Stanford's starting OTs, with a RS Frosh QB, but if they are more talented than other available options, why not?

Maybe flip your tackles.  Here is a report from Brandon Huffman yesterday on the scout site.

Walker Little, OT, Bellaire (Texas) Episcopal
A commit to Stanford, Little played both left and right tackle on Day One and looked his best at right tackle in the second half of practice, including one rep where he stonewalled Jaelan Phillips.  Little is a big-bodied tackle who's best football is still ahead of him.

Re: 2017 Starters.... - fullmetal - 01-03-2017

Sarell Foster plays LT, iirc.  Maybe he'll impress over fall camp.

Re: 2017 Starters.... - Durty Nelly - 01-03-2017

Quote:Maybe flip your tackles.  Here is a report from Brandon Huffman yesterday on the scout site.

Walker Little, OT, Bellaire (Texas) Episcopal
A commit to Stanford, Little played both left and right tackle on Day One and looked his best at right tackle in the second half of practice, including one rep where he stonewalled Jaelan Phillips.  Little is a big-bodied tackle who's best football is still ahead of him.

Day 2 report today.

Little has been more than good throughout the first two days of practices at the Army Bowl and this time it as the East defensive ends who got a preview of what they would be facing in the game on Saturday. If Little can square you up then you are not going to be getting around him at all. He is not even 18 yet, so it is scary to think what he will be by the time he reaches adulthood. Committed to Stanford.

Foster Sarrell

Sarell will announce in the game on Saturday picking between Nebraska, Notre Dame, Stanford, USC and Washington and whoever gets him will be getting what West Regional Manager Bandon Huffman describes at the "best offensive lineman I have scouted in person on the West". He is great in pass protection and he can clear lanes for running backs. 


Re: 2017 Starters.... - Goose - 01-03-2017

(01-03-2017, 03:32 PM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:But Tucker was the OT on a good 2015 offense, and if Fanaika doesn't nail down the starting RG job, why not move Tucker inside? 
I have no data here, but is Tucker athletic/quick enough to be a pulling guard in the run game? I have no idea, but if he has problems with quick rushers, I would initially be skeptical he could be a good guard.

Re: 2017 Starters.... - OutsiderFan - 01-03-2017

As a rule, Guards are not as athletic as Tackles.  You don't need to move nearly as quickly to pass protect as a Guard, and Tucker doesn't have the foot quickness needed for OT.  Frankly, Tucker has always looked like a Guard playing Tackle to me whenever I've watched him play.

Re: 2017 Starters.... - Goose - 01-03-2017

I hear you, and I guess there are different issues. I have the following evaluation from Bill Walsh.
Quote:There is less technique for the guard in pass protection than there is for the tackle. But the guard, on the other hand, is used on many blocking combinations where he must get from point A to point B, pulling through a hole, trapping, pulling on sweeps, coming inside-out on a linebacker blitzing, as Ayers did so effectively against Lawrence Taylor in some epic battles in the early 1980s.

So technique, agility and mobility is important for the guard.
That is what I worry about. Can Tucker get from point A to point B. Walsh suggests Tackles need to be very athletic and quick in a 2 square yard area. Guards need to run a bit. I got this from http://www.sportsxchange.com/DS97/walsh/walsh2g.htm. You think Tucker may be suited, and I have no argument that he isn't.

Re: 2017 Starters.... - AthleticsDynasty - 01-04-2017

QB - Mills(if Chryst can't go)
RB - Love
FB - Marx
WR - Irwin and JJ
TE - Smith
OL - Little  Herbig  Burkett  Wilson  Bright.
(Tucker and Fanika as the primary backups/orges)

DL - Schaffer Phillips Jackson
LB - Kalambayi Okreke Palma Alfieri
DB - Meeks Reid Edwards Murphy

Re: 2017 Starters.... - OutsiderFan - 01-04-2017

(01-04-2017, 03:29 PM)AthleticsDynasty link Wrote:QB - Mills(if Chryst can't go)
RB - Love
FB - Marx
WR - Irwin and JJ
TE - Smith
OL - Little  Herbig  Burkett  Wilson  Bright.
(Tucker and Fanika as the primary backups/orges)

DL - Schaffer Phillips Jackson
LB - Kalambayi Okreke Palma Alfieri
DB - Meeks Reid Edwards Murphy

I could quibble with Wilson, Bright, and Schaffer, but under no circumstances can I see Murphy starting over a healthy Holder at CB.  Is your assumption that Holder won't return healthy?

Re: 2017 Starters.... - SamuelMcF - 01-04-2017

(01-04-2017, 03:33 PM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:[quote author=AthleticsDynasty link=topic=16369.msg185114#msg185114 date=1483568959]
QB - Mills(if Chryst can't go)
RB - Love
FB - Marx
WR - Irwin and JJ
TE - Smith
OL - Little  Herbig  Burkett  Wilson  Bright.
(Tucker and Fanika as the primary backups/orges)

DL - Schaffer Phillips Jackson
LB - Kalambayi Okreke Palma Alfieri
DB - Meeks Reid Edwards Murphy

I could quibble with Wilson, Bright, and Schaffer, but under no circumstances can I see Murphy starting over a healthy Holder at CB.  Is your assumption that Holder won't return healthy?
[/quote]

Also missed Schultz at TE. And I'd agree with some quibblings.

I've also heard some murmurs that Kalambayi might leave. He'd get drafted if he did, IMO.

Re: 2017 Starters.... - Durty Nelly - 01-04-2017

(01-04-2017, 03:29 PM)AthleticsDynasty link Wrote:QB - Mills(if Chryst can't go)
RB - Love
FB - Marx
WR - Irwin and JJ
TE - Smith
OL - Little  Herbig  Burkett  Wilson  Bright.
(Tucker and Fanika as the primary backups/orges)

DL - Schaffer Phillips Jackson
LB - Kalambayi Okreke Palma Alfieri
DB - Meeks Reid Edwards Murphy

Wow!!!  Murphy over Holder and Buncom.  Mills over Costello. Smith over Schultz

Why the love for Schaffer?  Has he learned how to play football in his one year here.

Re: 2017 Starters.... - BostonCard - 01-04-2017

Mills has his own injury issues to deal with.  And, Andrew didn't start as a true freshman.

BC

Re: 2017 Starters.... - 76lsjumb - 01-04-2017

(01-04-2017, 03:29 PM)AthleticsDynasty link Wrote:QB - Mills(if Chryst can't go)
RB - Love
FB - Marx
WR - Irwin and JJ
TE - Smith
OL - Little  Herbig  Burkett  Wilson  Bright.
(Tucker and Fanika as the primary backups/orges)

DL - Schaffer Phillips Jackson
LB - Kalambayi Okreke Palma Alfieri
DB - Meeks Reid Edwards Murphy

"Little Herbig" are two words I NEVER expected to see together in the same line...

Re: 2017 Starters.... - BobK - 01-04-2017

Why would Schaffer have to learn football in his one year here?  He went to HS in Illinois 😀

Re: 2017 Starters.... - AthleticsDynasty - 01-05-2017

(01-04-2017, 03:33 PM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:[quote author=AthleticsDynasty link=topic=16369.msg185114#msg185114 date=1483568959]
QB - Mills(if Chryst can't go)
RB - Love
FB - Marx
WR - Irwin and JJ
TE - Smith
OL - Little  Herbig  Burkett  Wilson  Bright.
(Tucker and Fanika as the primary backups/orges)

DL - Schaffer Phillips Jackson
LB - Kalambayi Okreke Palma Alfieri
DB - Meeks Reid Edwards Murphy

I could quibble with Wilson, Bright, and Schaffer, but under no circumstances can I see Murphy starting over a healthy Holder at CB.  Is your assumption that Holder won't return healthy?
[/quote]

Murphy is probably our most experienced DB maybe Holder pushes him to nickle but I think(much like Bright) the coaches trust Murphy and he'll play a lot.

Schaffer is a shot in the dark, I LOVE his upside.

Re: 2017 Starters.... - ChicagoCard - 01-05-2017

I still remember how Holder shut down Smith-Shushter in the 2nd half of the Pac-12 champ. game last season. I was also watching some old NFL film re-runs and got worried when I learned the Paul Hornung and Greg Cook (qb for Cincinnati before Ken Anderson) had career-ending shoulder injuries. But that was the '60s Apparently Cook's torn rotator cuff went undiagnosed until it was too late.

At any rate, Stanford likes at least rotation of 3 cornerbacks so I could see Murphy being part of the top 3.

I hope a nose tackle emerges so that Phillips and Dylan Jackson can be the primary tackles on either side of the NT in the base defense. Mike Williams?

Re: 2017 Starters.... - Durty Nelly - 01-05-2017

(01-04-2017, 08:06 PM)BobK link Wrote:Why would Schaffer have to learn football in his one year here?  He went to HS in Illinois 😀

No knowledge of how he is developing, but I assume that he used his physical tools to succeed in HS and will need a lot more technique to succeed now.  It takes time to learn intricacies of a sport, and he was only getting started with football in high school.