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Re: What does Elway think of Hogan? - ColoradoTree - 03-11-2016

Denver just traded a conditional 2017 draft pick to Philadelphia for Mark Sanchez.  He's obviously not going to start for Denver, but as a veteran backup who wouldn't be a complete train wreck in case of an injured starter?  Not a terrible option.  Looks to be a 7th rounder, but not sure about the conditions--probably "making the roster" is enough to make the pick go through.

I shouldn't think this will affect Denver's pursuit of Kaepernick or looking at RGIII (though neither option should engender a lot of hope or enthusiasm among Denver fans).  Hogan's potential spot on this roster always seemed unlikely, though I should think he could beat out Siemian for the third QB spot. 

Re: What does Elway think of Hogan? - ColoradoTree - 03-11-2016

Denver just traded a conditional 2017 draft pick to Philadelphia for Mark Sanchez.  He's obviously not going to start for Denver, but as a veteran backup who wouldn't be a complete train wreck in case of an injured starter?  Not a terrible option.  Looks to be a 7th rounder, but not sure about the conditions--probably "making the roster" is enough to make the pick go through.

I shouldn't think this will affect Denver's pursuit of Kaepernick or looking at RGIII (though neither option should engender a lot of hope or enthusiasm among Denver fans).  Hogan's potential spot on this roster always seemed unlikely, though I should think he could beat out Siemian for the third QB spot. 

Re: What does Elway think of Hogan? - stupac2 - 03-11-2016

The perception of RG3 is so weird. Sure, after his knee injury he didn't play as well as he did in that initial year, but his stats were always fine (in fact his career stats are nearly eerily similar to Cousin's). There's plenty of evidence that he could be a perfectly competent QB with a coach who actually wants him. Maybe he won't be a star, but hey, simple competence is an upgrade for a bunch of teams.

Re: What does Elway think of Hogan? - stupac2 - 03-11-2016

The perception of RG3 is so weird. Sure, after his knee injury he didn't play as well as he did in that initial year, but his stats were always fine (in fact his career stats are nearly eerily similar to Cousin's). There's plenty of evidence that he could be a perfectly competent QB with a coach who actually wants him. Maybe he won't be a star, but hey, simple competence is an upgrade for a bunch of teams.

Re: What does Elway think of Hogan? - JJJ - 03-11-2016

This may have been posted elsewhere but I haven't seen it. As of 4 days ago, cbssports.com has Hogan ranked #10 for QBs and projected in the 6th round.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2016/QB

Re: What does Elway think of Hogan? - JJJ - 03-11-2016

This may have been posted elsewhere but I haven't seen it. As of 4 days ago, cbssports.com has Hogan ranked #10 for QBs and projected in the 6th round.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2016/QB

Re: What does Elway think of Hogan? - CTcard - 03-11-2016

Well, the real contrast on that list between looking like a player an playing like a player would be #5 Hackenberg vs #15 Vernon Adams.

Hackenberg was a super-heralded recruit of of HS who has played pitifully.
2015 stats include 53% completion rate, 7.0 yds/att, and a PER of 123.
But the guy is brobdingnagian (6'4'', 223#) with a cannon arm.

Adams was a super-unheralded recruit out of HS who has played very well - moving up from EWU to UO.
2015 stats include 65% completion rate, 9.3 yds/att, and a PER of 179.
UO was great when he was in and awful when out.
But, he's a midget (5'11'', 200# - maybe) and has a not-great arm and bit if a weird delivery.

Hogan is somewhat in-between. Hackenberg's size (almost) and measureables, stats more like Adams, but a weirder delivery than Adams and an odd two-game per year spaz-out (2015 that was vs NWU and WSU).

Re: What does Elway think of Hogan? - CTcard - 03-11-2016

Well, the real contrast on that list between looking like a player an playing like a player would be #5 Hackenberg vs #15 Vernon Adams.

Hackenberg was a super-heralded recruit of of HS who has played pitifully.
2015 stats include 53% completion rate, 7.0 yds/att, and a PER of 123.
But the guy is brobdingnagian (6'4'', 223#) with a cannon arm.

Adams was a super-unheralded recruit out of HS who has played very well - moving up from EWU to UO.
2015 stats include 65% completion rate, 9.3 yds/att, and a PER of 179.
UO was great when he was in and awful when out.
But, he's a midget (5'11'', 200# - maybe) and has a not-great arm and bit if a weird delivery.

Hogan is somewhat in-between. Hackenberg's size (almost) and measureables, stats more like Adams, but a weirder delivery than Adams and an odd two-game per year spaz-out (2015 that was vs NWU and WSU).

Re: What does Elway think of Hogan? - Mick - 03-12-2016

(03-11-2016, 04:10 PM)JJJ link Wrote:This may have been posted elsewhere but I haven't seen it. As of 4 days ago, cbssports.com has Hogan ranked #10 for QBs and projected in the 6th round.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2016/QB


Same round as Brady.  Just sayin'

Re: What does Elway think of Hogan? - Mick - 03-12-2016

(03-11-2016, 04:10 PM)JJJ link Wrote:This may have been posted elsewhere but I haven't seen it. As of 4 days ago, cbssports.com has Hogan ranked #10 for QBs and projected in the 6th round.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2016/QB


Same round as Brady.  Just sayin'

Re: What does Elway think of Hogan? - Mick - 03-12-2016

(03-10-2016, 01:33 PM)ColoradoTree link Wrote:[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=14720.msg158306#msg158306 date=1457639421]
Is it really sounding like Kaepernick is going to the Broncos? I really wanted to see what Kelly could do with him... They don't really think Gabbert is the future, do they?

Man, glad I'm not a niners fan.

At least in Denver, it sounds like that, and national folks have reported that (1) he's the Broncos' first choice, (2) SF wants a 2nd round pick for him, (3) Denver might be willing to give up a 3rd rounder, but no higher than that, and (4) Kaepernick would be willing to restructure his deal to accommodate Denver's wishes.  (Probably useful to keep in mind that Denver picks last in each round, making its 3rd rounder the least valuable 3rd rounder, not counting compensatory picks.)  Apparently the Browns and Jets have asked about Kaepernick, too, so that might drive up the price a bit.  Saw a report that Kaepernick prefers the Jets as a landing spot, but that was before the Denver situation opened up, so that's probably no longer relevant given the report that he'd be willing to restructure his deal if he ended up in Denver.  I think we can agree that from his perspective, going to Denver (with Thomas and Sanders at WR and with the bulk of that defense returning) is a much more appealing option right now than going to the Jets or Browns.

As for his future in SF, benching him in favor of Blaine Gabbert seemed like a sign he was done there.  Kelly coaching him would have been interesting, that's for sure, and I frankly thought that hiring Kelly was a sign SF was going to stick with Kaepernick.  And of course, listening to offers doesn't mean they'll deal him, but if they plan on keeping Kaepernick, they're certainly going about it in a strange way.

And at the risk of veering even further off topic (though it's at least related to Denver's pursuit of Kaepernick), I still can't believe Osweiler just got a $72M deal, with a whopping $37 million real American dollars of that guaranteed.  I get that QBs come at a premium price, but goodness, this feels like Matt Flynn all over again (though even the Flynn deal was for just 3 years and $20M, $9M of it guaranteed--just 4 years ago, though).  Osweiler now averages more per year than Matt Stafford and the same as Tony Romo.  Osweiler's 51.4% guaranteed percentage (though behind the fully guaranteed deals for recent top picks Blake Bortles, Marcus Mariota, Jameis Winston, and our own Andrew Luck, or the fully guaranteed one-year deal Kirk Cousins just signed) is better than Aaron Rodgers, Eli Manning, Cam Newton, Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, Ben Roethlisberger, Russell Wilson, and other guys that have actually started lots of games in the NFL.  Viewed from another angle, his $9.25M average guaranteed salary per year ranks 8th in the league.  Man, if he busts, that's an expensive mistake.
[/quote]


I don't think Kaepernick will ever be a good QB again.  Thanks to his coaches, team ownership and Kaep's own attitude, I don't see a rebirth here.  His QBR has gone down every single season in a row, and a very high percentage of his passes last season were just bizarre.  And you know the Broncos players will ask their friends on the 49ers "What's this guy all about?"  And the Niner players will say "he tanked and shut us all out."  He's done.  At this point, good riddance.

Re: What does Elway think of Hogan? - Mick - 03-12-2016

(03-10-2016, 01:33 PM)ColoradoTree link Wrote:[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=14720.msg158306#msg158306 date=1457639421]
Is it really sounding like Kaepernick is going to the Broncos? I really wanted to see what Kelly could do with him... They don't really think Gabbert is the future, do they?

Man, glad I'm not a niners fan.

At least in Denver, it sounds like that, and national folks have reported that (1) he's the Broncos' first choice, (2) SF wants a 2nd round pick for him, (3) Denver might be willing to give up a 3rd rounder, but no higher than that, and (4) Kaepernick would be willing to restructure his deal to accommodate Denver's wishes.  (Probably useful to keep in mind that Denver picks last in each round, making its 3rd rounder the least valuable 3rd rounder, not counting compensatory picks.)  Apparently the Browns and Jets have asked about Kaepernick, too, so that might drive up the price a bit.  Saw a report that Kaepernick prefers the Jets as a landing spot, but that was before the Denver situation opened up, so that's probably no longer relevant given the report that he'd be willing to restructure his deal if he ended up in Denver.  I think we can agree that from his perspective, going to Denver (with Thomas and Sanders at WR and with the bulk of that defense returning) is a much more appealing option right now than going to the Jets or Browns.

As for his future in SF, benching him in favor of Blaine Gabbert seemed like a sign he was done there.  Kelly coaching him would have been interesting, that's for sure, and I frankly thought that hiring Kelly was a sign SF was going to stick with Kaepernick.  And of course, listening to offers doesn't mean they'll deal him, but if they plan on keeping Kaepernick, they're certainly going about it in a strange way.

And at the risk of veering even further off topic (though it's at least related to Denver's pursuit of Kaepernick), I still can't believe Osweiler just got a $72M deal, with a whopping $37 million real American dollars of that guaranteed.  I get that QBs come at a premium price, but goodness, this feels like Matt Flynn all over again (though even the Flynn deal was for just 3 years and $20M, $9M of it guaranteed--just 4 years ago, though).  Osweiler now averages more per year than Matt Stafford and the same as Tony Romo.  Osweiler's 51.4% guaranteed percentage (though behind the fully guaranteed deals for recent top picks Blake Bortles, Marcus Mariota, Jameis Winston, and our own Andrew Luck, or the fully guaranteed one-year deal Kirk Cousins just signed) is better than Aaron Rodgers, Eli Manning, Cam Newton, Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, Ben Roethlisberger, Russell Wilson, and other guys that have actually started lots of games in the NFL.  Viewed from another angle, his $9.25M average guaranteed salary per year ranks 8th in the league.  Man, if he busts, that's an expensive mistake.
[/quote]


I don't think Kaepernick will ever be a good QB again.  Thanks to his coaches, team ownership and Kaep's own attitude, I don't see a rebirth here.  His QBR has gone down every single season in a row, and a very high percentage of his passes last season were just bizarre.  And you know the Broncos players will ask their friends on the 49ers "What's this guy all about?"  And the Niner players will say "he tanked and shut us all out."  He's done.  At this point, good riddance.

Re: What does Elway think of Hogan? - ThePassionOfTheChryst - 03-12-2016

(03-10-2016, 12:50 PM)stupac2 link Wrote:Is it really sounding like Kaepernick is going to the Broncos? I really wanted to see what Kelly could do with him... They don't really think Gabbert is the future, do they?

Man, glad I'm not a niners fan.

There's always a third option: that neither of them is the future.

Re: What does Elway think of Hogan? - ThePassionOfTheChryst - 03-12-2016

(03-10-2016, 12:50 PM)stupac2 link Wrote:Is it really sounding like Kaepernick is going to the Broncos? I really wanted to see what Kelly could do with him... They don't really think Gabbert is the future, do they?

Man, glad I'm not a niners fan.

There's always a third option: that neither of them is the future.

Re: What does Elway think of Hogan? - winflop - 03-12-2016

(03-10-2016, 11:44 AM)fullmetal link Wrote:RG3 is out there, and Hogan to back him up wouldn't be the worst combo in the world.

I think most GMs are asking who RG3 is going to back up.  I doubt he will ever be a starter again (other than if the starter is injured).

Re: What does Elway think of Hogan? - winflop - 03-12-2016

(03-10-2016, 11:44 AM)fullmetal link Wrote:RG3 is out there, and Hogan to back him up wouldn't be the worst combo in the world.

I think most GMs are asking who RG3 is going to back up.  I doubt he will ever be a starter again (other than if the starter is injured).