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Re: Class of 2014 - stan01 - 07-17-2013

We did not hear as much about Lane Veach, yet he is rated higher than Harrison Phillips on the 24/7 site (87 versus 85). 

Re: Class of 2014 - JohnR34231 - 07-17-2013

I also think it's a bit of a chicken and egg thing. Do players get recruited by the Alabamas and Ohio States of this world because they are highly ranked, or are they highly ranked because high profile teams are recruiting them?

I think we are getting to the place where if we recruit a kid he moves up in the rankings. That might be one reason why you see the stars associated with our recruits increasing.

Nice Article on Bobby Okereke - Bruce Wang - 07-17-2013

http://www.ocvarsity.com/articles/okereke-37994-case-football.html

4.43 (GPA not 40 time which is 4.6) and takes all AP classes and an Eagle Scout to boot.  Has only played football since freshman year so I imagine there's a lot of upside.  Has one sister at Vanderbilt and another at U$C that are lobbying him.  Sounds to me, Stanford's the way to go to stay neutral.  Not to mention the superior education and football.  Would be interesting to see if he commits early because of the high probability of admission.

Re: Class of 2014 - Leftcoast - 07-17-2013

4.43 GPA on a four point scale?  How does that even happen?!?  I've heard of an extra .3 for honors classes, etc but how do you get an extra 0.5? Are there standards for scoring this?

Re: Class of 2014 - stupac2 - 07-17-2013

(07-17-2013, 07:41 AM)Leftcoast link Wrote:4.43 GPA on a four point scale?  How does that even happen?!?  I've heard of an extra .3 for honors classes, etc but how do you get an extra 0.5? Are there standards for scoring this?

I've heard of places giving +N for honors and +2N for AP/IB. Though the one I heard about was actually +1 and +2, which just seems dumb. A C in an AP class isn't worth the same as an A in a regular class.

Apparently Lefty never turned his amp all way up to 11 - Redrum - 07-17-2013

"4.43 GPA on a four point scale?  How does that even happen?!?

If recruit service rankings seem equivocal, then I examine actual offers because at that point the schools have  skin in the game.  I don't go by the number of offers.  Observe below that the directional schools from the Plains states apparently make offers by shoveling them out of an airplane.  Significant [major conference, higher rankings] offers in bold:

Lane Veach: Stanford, Air Force, Arizona, Montana, Northern Arizona, Northern Colorado, UTEP

Harrison Phillips: Stanford, , Army, Duke, Fla. Atlantic, Harvard, Kansas St., Nebraska, North Dakota, N. Dakota St., Northern Illinois, Ohio, Princeton, South Dakota, South Dakota St.,Toledo, UCLA, Western Michigan, Wyoming, Yale.

That puts Phillips marginally above Veach reversing 24/7.  It would have been tied had Ariz. St. not had a brain fart on Veach.  It would have been interesting to see how the actual offers had worked out if Phillips had remained uncommitted until Dec.  My bet is Phillips' list would have pulled away.

FWLIW, Veach's dad-- a former Ariz. St. player,  posted on the Booty, explaining his kid and the recruiting process.  Apparently Veach got injured just before the start of his junior season and there was very little video on his games.  A bit to his dad's chagrin,  ASU did not offer but wanted Veach to come to their camp first so they could evaluate him in person.  FWIW, Stanford followed the same logic, but held their camp before ASU's...and offered while he was on campus.  The Sun Devils were just too slow on the trigger.  As it is, either team would have gotten a very athletic development project who would not be playing immediately.  And dad is happy that his kid is totally happy with his choice.

Re: Class of 2014 - washingtonismoney - 07-17-2013

Not to be disagreeable, but Arizona and Arizona State does not in any way tie Kansas State, Nebraska and UCLA. The Arizona schools have been mostly above average recently; on the other hand, K-state and Nebraska have consistently fielded top 25 teams, and UCLA's always been full of talent (if inconsistent about using it). I see Phillips's offer list as far more impressive than that hypothetical Veach one.

Not that that indicates Veach is a bad player or anything; in-person accounts have confirmed he's really athletic and the fact that he only played five games last year explains the offers. But still.

---

Anyway, the broader issue. Offer lists are, indeed, one tool -- but the problem with offer lists is they don't tell you where on the board a prospect sits, or even whether it's a real offer. For example, with Phillips, if you believe Nebraska fan's rationalizations, they only offered because we/UCLA did and put a gun to their heads. May or may not be true, but the general point holds: an offer is only an imperfect reflection of how coaches rate a recruit.

Basically, more data the better, I say. In terms of synthesizing it, one of the interesting features 247 has is a "consensus" rating, wherein they have some algorithm produce a normalized score for each recruit drawing on the four major recruiting services. It's a smart feature and can help avoid arguments over whether Ertz was "really" a four-star or not. (FWIW: Scout had him as the #4 TE and a four-star; Rivals had him as the #10 TE and a three-star; ESPN wasn't using the star system at that point but had him on the borderline of what they'd later call four-star. Also the #9 TE. Looks like Scout won that round.)

Yeah, but... - Redrum - 07-17-2013

  Every year the NFL draft shows that football talent can reside at almost any school.  But that's just because of the joys of large test populations and a four year selection process.  Coaches pass on talent for lots of reasons: fit with the scheme, existing strength at a particular position, mis-evaluation of potential.  But even if coaches mis-evaluate, most of the good football players end up playing to roughly their potential.

But in the end, the kid isn't going to end up playing for 24/7's optimized algorithm.  He's going to end up playing for one coaching staff that put down a bet on him, possibly passing up a better player who would have been more productive.  If competent coaches--who presumably know more about football than most of us and more than most of the dependent pundit/media expert class--choose to offer a kid,  that carries a little more weight in my own opinions.

P.S.  Veach's dad, despite his enthusiasm for his alma mater,  was not offended by ASU's wanting to see Veach perform up close, in person.  He understood,  but acknowledged their hesitation, however justified, cost them what he thinks will be a pretty gifted football player. C'est la vie.

Re: Class of 2014 - Hank 91 - 07-17-2013

This could be a really good thing. Four-star offensive lineman Ross Pierschbacher (#11 offensive tackle), a long-time Iowa commit, has decided to visit Stanford and Alabama. What's interesting about this is that Iowa has had a policy of pulling offers from committed players who decide to take other visits. Here's a free link:

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20130717/SPORTS02/130717033/Pierschbacher-four-star-Iowa-commit-visit-Alabama-Stanford

Re: Class of 2014 - yvonne - 07-17-2013

A weight man. Anybody know whether he also does discus? Shot requires good footwork, but not nearly to the same extent as disc.

Re: Class of 2014 - fullmetal - 07-17-2013

Iowa may pull its scholarship offer, but you really wonder what changed Pierschbacher's mind about Iowa.  Something going on over there?  (Besides less winning...)

My school gave +1 for honors/AP, but that was it. 

Re: Class of 2014 - washingtonismoney - 07-17-2013

(07-17-2013, 01:41 PM)fullmetal link Wrote:Iowa may pull its scholarship offer, but you really wonder what changed Pierschbacher's mind about Iowa.  Something going on over there?  (Besides less winning...)

My school gave +1 for honors/AP, but that was it.

According to the article, looks like he just didn't have the Alabama or Stanford offers when he made the Iowa decision.

Re: Class of 2014 - Kathy - 07-17-2013

(07-17-2013, 07:41 AM)Leftcoast link Wrote:4.43 GPA on a four point scale?  How does that even happen?!?  I've heard of an extra .3 for honors classes, etc but how do you get an extra 0.5? Are there standards for scoring this?

At my kids' high school, weighted classes (AP, honors and college dual credit) were worth 125% of regular classes, so a weighted A was worth 5 points instead of 4, a weighted B was worth 3.75 instead of 3, and a weighted C got you 2.50 instead of 2. Pluses and minuses also added values to the grade (weighted and regular classes) when factoring into the GPA. The system was set up to reward the more ambitious students who wanted to take more challenging coursework without the fear that a less-than-perfect performance would hurt their GPA and subsequent class standing.

Re: Class of 2014 - OutsiderFan - 07-17-2013

(07-17-2013, 02:29 PM)Kathy link Wrote:[quote author=Leftcoast link=topic=6741.msg64417#msg64417 date=1374072078]
4.43 GPA on a four point scale?  How does that even happen?!?  I've heard of an extra .3 for honors classes, etc but how do you get an extra 0.5? Are there standards for scoring this?

At my kids' high school, weighted classes (AP, honors and college dual credit) were worth 125% of regular classes, so a weighted A was worth 5 points instead of 4, a weighted B was worth 3.75 instead of 3, and a weighted C got you 2.50 instead of 2. Pluses and minuses also added values to the grade (weighted and regular classes) when factoring into the GPA. The system was set up to reward the more ambitious students who wanted to take more challenging coursework without the fear that a less-than-perfect performance would hurt their GPA and subsequent class standing.
[/quote]

This is a bit like the 3pt shot in hoops.  Would like to see 4 pts for 50 or maybe 55 yd+ FGs in football.  Sure would make coaches think really hard about punting vs. risking the opponent getting the ball near midfield.

Re: Class of 2014 - Bruce Wang - 07-18-2013

(07-17-2013, 01:48 PM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:According to the article, looks like he just didn't have the Alabama or Stanford offers when he made the Iowa decision.

He's leaving Iowa.  Will be interesting to see what's a better "out" a higher probability of winning a national championship or a vastly superior education.  Basically the 3 best options for the elite recruits that are also good students: Home State U, Alabama, and Stanford.

As I recall we beat Alabama for Greg Taboada.  As he said having Saban as a coach is almost like having a good education.  Hope Pierschbacher reaches the same conclusion.

Re: Class of 2014 - fullmetal - 07-18-2013

It's all about the 40-yr decision :)

Re: Class of 2014 - washingtonismoney - 07-19-2013

Sadly, looks like Bentley Spain is sticking close to home and going to UNC.

Re: Class of 2014 - yvonne - 07-19-2013

Do we have any OL commitments? This worries me.

Re: Class of 2014 - washingtonismoney - 07-19-2013

(07-19-2013, 10:17 AM)Yvonne link Wrote:Do we have any OL commitments? This worries me.

Fanaika at OG.

Tucker and Pierschbacher look like strong possibilities.

If we ever offer Andrew Mike and/or Austin Hall, they would probably rush to commit. Nolan Kelleher is another possibility with an offer (he's visiting this month.)

Considering we'll probably shoot for a class of four total, we're in decent shape.

Re: Class of 2014 - OutsiderFan - 07-19-2013

(07-19-2013, 10:23 AM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:[quote author=Yvonne link=topic=6741.msg64474#msg64474 date=1374254247]
Do we have any OL commitments? This worries me.

Fanaika at OG.

Tucker and Pierschbacher look like strong possibilities.

If we ever offer Andrew Mike and/or Austin Hall, they would probably rush to commit. Nolan Kelleher is another possibility with an offer (he's visiting this month.)

Considering we'll probably shoot for a class of four total, we're in decent shape.
[/quote]

Andrew Mike is an object lesson in why you should play your card close to the vest as a college athlete recruit.  He has made it clear in his interviews, and maybe even to the Stanford coaching staff how much he covets Stanford.  Given the higher rated OL Stanford has a shot at, he's made it pretty easy for the coaching staff to slow play him.  Maybe if Mike was showing less interest in Stanford the staff would have offered him by now.  As it is, they probably believe they can go after other guys and then go with Mike as a fallback.

That said, a Spain UNC commitment could trigger an offer to Mike.