Outside Topic OT: Giants 2023 thread - Printable Version
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RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 12-12-2022
(12-12-2022, 08:28 AM)lex24 Wrote:(12-11-2022, 12:46 PM)Giants Wrote: To date, very disappointing. However, a number of names are still available The Giants need to sign at least three - SS, SP and RP (Correa, Bassitt, Rogers???), negotiate a trade for an OF and hope the farm system does a 180 from the ‘22 results to remain within shouting distance of LA and SD. Otherwise, 2023 will be a long march to nowhere (in particular)….
Update: Forget Bassitt. SF not pursuing him at this time. Insert another SP (Manea) in place of Bassitt.
You nailed Manaea. Not excited on this end.
(12-11-2022, 10:36 AM)Mick Wrote:(12-11-2022, 10:04 AM)lex24 Wrote:(12-11-2022, 07:54 AM)Mick Wrote:(12-10-2022, 09:12 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: Don't know much about Nimmo, but I read an article referenced somewhere. Seems to not hit for power, kind of gets on base, and is injury prone. Considered the second best free agent outfielder this year. Seems the Giants dodged a bullet here.
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/12/mets-to-re-sign-brandon-nimmo-to-eight-year-deal.html
Frankly...I know this isn't a popular opinion, but I think that about most super-sized free agent contracts. I think about the bullets we dodged (Kris Bryant) and bullets we didn't dodge, like Barry Zito, or going way back, Rennie Stennett. Or guys like Bryce Harper who signed with Philadelphia -- the ballpark where he has the highest OPS. Harper's OPS at SF last year was .533 and .656 for his career, lowest for any ballpark that he's had 100 or more ABs. He doesn't hit well in SF, period.
There are two major "name" shortstops left, Carlos Correa and Dansby Swanson. Of the 27 ballparks in which Correa has played, he has the second-lowest OPS at Oracle Park, just .449. For his career, Swanson is only .618 OPS at Oracle but he had a 1.122 OPS there last year, tops among all ballparks he played in last year. I say, get Swanson.
Cherry-picking aside, stars matter. The market is what it is. Was Nimmo “overpaid”. Sure. But was it out of line with other offers. Dunno.
(Bryant was an easy pass. He did not perform all that well in SF and the Rockies made an absurd offer. Much as the Giants did with Zito. It wasn’t that they signed him. It was that by all accounts they were way beyond any other offer. Having said that, they don’t win in 2012 without Zito. So, maybe it was worth it after all.)
Nimmo had a .373 OBP last year. Hit over .300. He’s fast. And a CF. Only hit 5 HRs last year. But has hit as many as 20.
Correa is a better pick than Swanson. Terrific defensive SS with power. What he has hit at Oracle in a few AB’s is irrelevant. He’s also supposedly a tremendous teammate.
Yes, they will need to pay a premium. Yes, the back end will be scary. So, what. That’s the market they are in. We were told they are going to be major players. To date, they’ve whiffed. But if they can’t get Correa - sure, go after Swanson.
Right now it’s a weak roster. They will add. But if it’s only at Bargain Market, this will be a lost Winter. Worse than ‘21. When this organization could not afford that result. Something Zaidi basically admitted pre December.
Trying doesn’t matter. Results do. So far, the results have been abysmal.
I wonder about that. League average ERA was 3.94 in 2012, Zito's was 4.15, 39th among 47 NL starting pitchers that year. He got very lucky...good for him and good for the Giants, but another average starter that didn't have a salary among the top five starters could likely have managed a 4.15 ERA, particularly with Posey catching.
Correa has gone 3 for 19 at Oracle, all singles, with six strikeouts. At home, he has annihilated Giants pitching. Swanson's 2022 OPS was slightly lower than Correa's and Swanson was a gold glove fielder. They both had 8 errors, but Swanson had more than 100 more chances in the field. Swanson also had 77 DPs vs 51 for Correa. Swanson was an all star, Correa was not. Frankly, I'd take either one over what we have.
Mick, 19 ABs mean nothing. Remember Mark Portugal. Killed the Giants. So, they signed him. Continued to kill the Giants…..
Zito was nails in NLCS and series in ‘12. Which is what I meant.
I would have taken Portugal. He had a 3.25 ERA at Candlestick (second best of all ballparks in which he pitched 5 or more games) and went 15-13 in a Giants uniform. Of course, he'd just gone 18-4 for Houston....
And you're right, Zito had one terrible start in the NLDS (which the Giants ended up winning), then he had a terrific start in the NLCS against the Cardinals (no runs, 7 2/3 IP) and a strong start against the Tigers in the WS (5 IP, 1 earned run).
I still think splits are meaningful. Bryce Harper had never hit well at Oracle prior to signing with Philly -- a place where he'd hit the best. Sure enough, in 2022 his OPS was .533 at Oracle, .877 overall.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - OutsiderFan - 12-13-2022
Just heard Michael Kay say the Yankees are not in on Carlos Correa. That leaves the Giants to compete with the Twins and Cubs according to CBS Sports this afternoon. Kay also says Carlos Rodon seems more inclined to play on the East Coast.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - BobK - 12-13-2022
The newest Giant
Ross Stripling Stats, News, Bio | ESPN https://www.espn.com/mlb/player/_/id/32789/ross-stripling
https://www.mlb.com/news/ross-stripling-deal-with-giants
Manaea signs
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/sean-manaea-returns-to-the-bay-signs-with-giants/
I thought the posts above referred to pursing him
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 12-13-2022
Yikes! I just read that Curt Simmons has died. He was known as a crafty lefty who pitched for a number of teams, including the Phillies and Cardinals in the 50’s and 60’s.
Here is the part that blew me away - he was 93! How is it possible that a ballplayer I remember so well from my youth was 93??? Yeah, I know. This doesn’t make any sense but it was still a shock. We are getting old, aren’t we…….
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 12-13-2022
(12-12-2022, 03:23 PM)Mick Wrote:(12-12-2022, 08:28 AM)lex24 Wrote:(12-11-2022, 12:46 PM)Giants Wrote: To date, very disappointing. However, a number of names are still available The Giants need to sign at least three - SS, SP and RP (Correa, Bassitt, Rogers???), negotiate a trade for an OF and hope the farm system does a 180 from the ‘22 results to remain within shouting distance of LA and SD. Otherwise, 2023 will be a long march to nowhere (in particular)….
Update: Forget Bassitt. SF not pursuing him at this time. Insert another SP (Manea) in place of Bassitt.
You nailed Manaea. Not excited on this end.
(12-11-2022, 10:36 AM)Mick Wrote:(12-11-2022, 10:04 AM)lex24 Wrote:(12-11-2022, 07:54 AM)Mick Wrote: Frankly...I know this isn't a popular opinion, but I think that about most super-sized free agent contracts. I think about the bullets we dodged (Kris Bryant) and bullets we didn't dodge, like Barry Zito, or going way back, Rennie Stennett. Or guys like Bryce Harper who signed with Philadelphia -- the ballpark where he has the highest OPS. Harper's OPS at SF last year was .533 and .656 for his career, lowest for any ballpark that he's had 100 or more ABs. He doesn't hit well in SF, period.
There are two major "name" shortstops left, Carlos Correa and Dansby Swanson. Of the 27 ballparks in which Correa has played, he has the second-lowest OPS at Oracle Park, just .449. For his career, Swanson is only .618 OPS at Oracle but he had a 1.122 OPS there last year, tops among all ballparks he played in last year. I say, get Swanson.
Cherry-picking aside, stars matter. The market is what it is. Was Nimmo “overpaid”. Sure. But was it out of line with other offers. Dunno.
(Bryant was an easy pass. He did not perform all that well in SF and the Rockies made an absurd offer. Much as the Giants did with Zito. It wasn’t that they signed him. It was that by all accounts they were way beyond any other offer. Having said that, they don’t win in 2012 without Zito. So, maybe it was worth it after all.)
Nimmo had a .373 OBP last year. Hit over .300. He’s fast. And a CF. Only hit 5 HRs last year. But has hit as many as 20.
Correa is a better pick than Swanson. Terrific defensive SS with power. What he has hit at Oracle in a few AB’s is irrelevant. He’s also supposedly a tremendous teammate.
Yes, they will need to pay a premium. Yes, the back end will be scary. So, what. That’s the market they are in. We were told they are going to be major players. To date, they’ve whiffed. But if they can’t get Correa - sure, go after Swanson.
Right now it’s a weak roster. They will add. But if it’s only at Bargain Market, this will be a lost Winter. Worse than ‘21. When this organization could not afford that result. Something Zaidi basically admitted pre December.
Trying doesn’t matter. Results do. So far, the results have been abysmal.
I wonder about that. League average ERA was 3.94 in 2012, Zito's was 4.15, 39th among 47 NL starting pitchers that year. He got very lucky...good for him and good for the Giants, but another average starter that didn't have a salary among the top five starters could likely have managed a 4.15 ERA, particularly with Posey catching.
Correa has gone 3 for 19 at Oracle, all singles, with six strikeouts. At home, he has annihilated Giants pitching. Swanson's 2022 OPS was slightly lower than Correa's and Swanson was a gold glove fielder. They both had 8 errors, but Swanson had more than 100 more chances in the field. Swanson also had 77 DPs vs 51 for Correa. Swanson was an all star, Correa was not. Frankly, I'd take either one over what we have.
Mick, 19 ABs mean nothing. Remember Mark Portugal. Killed the Giants. So, they signed him. Continued to kill the Giants…..
Zito was nails in NLCS and series in ‘12. Which is what I meant.
I would have taken Portugal. He had a 3.25 ERA at Candlestick (second best of all ballparks in which he pitched 5 or more games) and went 15-13 in a Giants uniform. Of course, he'd just gone 18-4 for Houston....
And you're right, Zito had one terrible start in the NLDS (which the Giants ended up winning), then he had a terrific start in the NLCS against the Cardinals (no runs, 7 2/3 IP) and a strong start against the Tigers in the WS (5 IP, 1 earned run).
I still think splits are meaningful. Bryce Harper had never hit well at Oracle prior to signing with Philly -- a place where he'd hit the best. Sure enough, in 2022 his OPS was .533 at Oracle, .877 overall.
Splits are meaningful. But SSS are not.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 12-13-2022
I'm going to take the unpopular stance. I really like what the Giants have done so far:
1) They tendered a qualifying offer to Joc Pederson who destroys right handed pitching, .894 OPS against righties. Joc is in the equivalent of a contract year. Properly motivated, he'll do extremely well. He'll play DH at every opportunity. You won't see him in the field much.
2) They signed Mitch Haniger. He was an all star in 2018, he hit 39 HRs two years ago, and 11 in 57 games last year when he was hurt. His 162 game average is 32 HRs a year, career .811 OPS, can play any OF spot, excels in RF, which allows Yaz to concentrate on CF, if they don't sign a center fielder.
3) They signed Ross Stripling. He was 10-4 last year with a miniscule 1.020 WHIP and 3.01 ERA. His WHIP was better than Rodon's, and he had 24 starts. Just saying. Also an all star in 2018. $25 mms., two years.
4) They signed Sean Manaea, former A's pitcher, $25 mms., two years. Did great in the first half of 2022, lousy in 2nd half. 1st half, 100 innings, 4.11 ERA, 1.232 WHIP. 2nd half, 57 innings, 6.44 ERA, 1.413 WHIP. Lots of ground balls, does very well at Oracle.
5) Signed Blake Sobol, AAA catcher who hit .969 OPS for Indianapolis, with a .462 OBP. Good defensive catcher, weak arm.
Giants have lots of starters; Logan Webb, Anthony DeSclefani, Alex Cobb, Alex Wood, Sean Manaea, Jakob Junis, Ross Stripling, Kyle Harrison. That's five starters, and a long reliever or three. They got Joey Bart, on the rise at Catcher. J. D. Davis at 3B, with power hitter Villar behind him. Casey Schmitt plays at a gold glove level (per Will Clark).
Curious to see if they get Correa or Swansby. I'd be happy with either, tbh. But we need to get a lot stronger up the middle. I'll assume we get one of them. Frankly, I'd like to see Crawford move, either to 3B or 2B. Adam Frazier would be an interesting pickup at 2B -- he was an all star in 2021, career .273/.336/.392/.728.
And I'd like to see them trade for former Giants hand Bryan Reynolds, All Star in 2021, career .842 OPS, plays centerfield. I'd give up Luciano and a few others for Reynolds, especially if we sign Correa or Swansby.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - BobK - 12-13-2022
I like your thinking Mick. Hope we sign a big hitter who plays very good D. Other than that good so far
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Phogge - 12-13-2022
I would give up Luciano and Ramos (Who nobody probably wants) but not Harrison.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - magnus - 12-13-2022
Correa 13 yr $350M
[Tweet]https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1602887992313626625?s=20&t=p8q3By74NrgRD9-YsWD5qA[/tweet]
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - BobK - 12-13-2022
Outstanding.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 12-13-2022
Just what the doctor ordered.
And now, while Santa Zaidi is still listening, I wanna 2nd baseman and I wanna center fielder...
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 12-13-2022
Correa, Manaea. Check
(and Stripling - a bonus I certainly didn’t expect).
Next - a relief pitcher (Rogers?)
Another OF would be nice. However, whether they sign one or not, I would still categorize this off season as a success if they sign a high-level reliever.
Those of us who have been steadfastly in Zaidi’s corner feel pretty good tonight….
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 12-13-2022
(12-13-2022, 10:17 PM)Giants Wrote: Correa, Manaea. Check
(and Stripling - a bonus I certainly didn’t expect).
Next - a relief pitcher (Rogers?)
Another OF would be nice. However, whether they sign one or not, I would still categorize this off season as a success if they sign a high-level reliever.
Those of us who have been steadfastly in Zaidi’s corner feel pretty good tonight….
Wow. Now Reynolds. Luciano will have to be part of that but ….
(12-13-2022, 10:08 PM)Mick Wrote: Just what the doctor ordered.
And now, while Santa Zaidi is still listening, I wanna 2nd baseman and I wanna center fielder...
Second base is fine. Estrada and Crawford.
(12-13-2022, 09:10 PM)Phogge Wrote: I would give up Luciano and Ramos (Who nobody probably wants) but not Harrison.
Yep.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 12-14-2022
SF’s payroll is currently at $190 million. For luxury tax purposes, this translates to $206 million. With the first tax level at $233 million, there is room for more… Who’s next?
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 12-14-2022
(12-14-2022, 12:21 AM)Giants Wrote: SF’s payroll is currently at $190 million. For luxury tax purposes, this translates to $206 million. With the first tax level at $233 million, there is room for more… Who’s next?
Reynolds. His salary is $6,750,000 and he's under control (though not under contract) through 2025.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - OutsiderFan - 12-14-2022
Welcome to the big leagues, S.F. Giants!
Very good, spot-on Andrew Baggarly story on the Correa signing.
https://theathletic.com/4000720/2022/12/14/san-francisco-giants-sign-carlos-correa/
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 12-14-2022
(12-14-2022, 12:21 AM)Giants Wrote: SF’s payroll is currently at $190 million. For luxury tax purposes, this translates to $206 million. With the first tax level at $233 million, there is room for more… Who’s next?
I suspect bullpen help. Taylor Rodgers maybe?
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Phogge - 12-14-2022
Three guys available who just kill the Giants:
Josh Harrison
Will Meyers
Ian Kennedy
Kennedy is 37. One year deal? Cheap.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - cardcrimson - 12-14-2022
(12-14-2022, 12:21 AM)Giants Wrote: Who’s next?
Baba O'Reilly?
Who ever it is, I hope we don't get fooled again. . . .
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - winflop - 12-14-2022
(12-14-2022, 06:39 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Welcome to the big leagues, S.F. Giants!
Very good, spot-on Andrew Baggarly story on the Correa signing.
https://theathletic.com/4000720/2022/12/14/san-francisco-giants-sign-carlos-correa/
What happens to Crawford?